has the Golden Age of America passed

has the Golden Age of America passed

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old dawg

Nicholasville, KY

#1 Nov 28, 2013
has the "Golden Age" of America passed, as has happened to every great society in history?

what made this country so great? what are we doing now differently than before?

i've always been told that we study history so we don't make the same mistakes our forefathers did.

we are called a democracy, does anyone understand what that means? what is the definition of the common good?

how much should a government control your life and home?

i'm not condemning nor condoning, i'm attempting to open a conversation, not an argument. try to discuss this civilly. it's very OK to disagree with each other, that's how new ideas come about, but i've observed that once the vocabulary erodes to 4 letter words, the validity of the discussion is over.

ok, one, two, ready, set, GO!
MeLoco

United States

#2 Nov 28, 2013
I don't believe the government is the problem. It is my opinion that large corporations are. The history of America has not always been a great one. The working class have took their share of abuse in the past also. We just went 50ish years living in the times of plenty and some things where forgotten. The working class was able to raise above just scratching out a living. Now because of the global market and changes made to trade we can no longer demand decent wages. Yes I do believe Americas glory days are over. Government programs mimic what many believe to be efforts of relief in a down economy. In reality it's just a method for the wealthy to obtain what little wealth that working Americans still have.
Findagreenline

London, KY

#3 Nov 28, 2013
As for America's golden age, no I don't think its over. I think we still have a good road ahead of us, we've traded liberty for security - especially where finances are concerned. It's good to know you have a steady income, even if its from others being taxed, but in essence you can never go further than you are. And would you want to if you knew it meant giving up security.

As for the rise of Asia, sure there will be areas that will rise and fall and as Americans we will be forced to share the stage with other countries, however, what innovation has come from China or Asia for that matter? The Japanese did develop a lot in the 70s and 80s, but they didn't invent these product, they just improved on them. Asians aren't very creative and you can't foster creativity under a totalitarian system like China. What would you gain from it? And though the current administration in Washington feels its the governments job to innovate - what has a government innovated and had it turn out right, ever?

As in the past when all good things happened in American it is up to the individual to make them happen. There are still many opportunities out there you just can't wait for them to come to you - so, yes, if we want it American's golden age may be over, but a new and better era is upon us.
Findagreenline

London, KY

#4 Nov 28, 2013
MeLoco wrote:
I don't believe the government is the problem. It is my opinion that large corporations are. The history of America has not always been a great one. The working class have took their share of abuse in the past also. We just went 50ish years living in the times of plenty and some things where forgotten. The working class was able to raise above just scratching out a living. Now because of the global market and changes made to trade we can no longer demand decent wages. Yes I do believe Americas glory days are over. Government programs mimic what many believe to be efforts of relief in a down economy. In reality it's just a method for the wealthy to obtain what little wealth that working Americans still have.
I agree with your point about large corporations. Capitalism, pure capitalism, is good, its someone starting a business, making a living, paying taxes and employing others so they can be self sufficient. Its not that trillions in profit that gets put in offshore accounts and never sees the light of day - that's Corporatism and its marrying government to cause all kinds of problems.

Now many people see Apple as a great company - sure it is, it came from humble beginnings and to compare and contrast apple to wal mart, both rose up from nothing, but the difference is that Wal mart, while lots of its products are made in China, does employ a lot of American workers (albeit at minimum wage) while Apple has all their products made in China and employs very few people except at the corporate and retail level.

China, however is starting to loosen the grips of communism and we remember what happened when Russia did that. Give it time, though I think there is a lot of power grabbing going on, I think the US will be sitting pretty when China does go the way or Russia.
old dawg

Nicholasville, KY

#5 Nov 28, 2013
what concerns me, is the apparent lack of initiative of so many of our youngsters. granted, there are many "go-getters", but more than i care to count are simply happy to sit on their heels and let the world pass around them.

like it or not, the American work ethic was what has brought us this far. the "we can do it" spirit the vetarans brought back from WWII turned the 50's into American gold.

do we still have that spirit and work ethic? i'm not sure.
CCDW

Lexington, KY

#6 Nov 28, 2013
old dawg wrote:
what concerns me, is the apparent lack of initiative of so many of our youngsters. granted, there are many "go-getters", but more than i care to count are simply happy to sit on their heels and let the world pass around them.
like it or not, the American work ethic was what has brought us this far. the "we can do it" spirit the vetarans brought back from WWII turned the 50's into American gold.
do we still have that spirit and work ethic? i'm not sure.
i sure don't see the spirit and work ethic in my contact with the public. seems everyone is out to get all they can for free disregarding how it hurts anyone else. respect, honesty, and moral values are out the window. who can you trust? almost daily, there are reports in the news of people in positions of trust embezzling funds, buying votes, bribery, and more than i want to take time to list. what have we gotten ourselves into when our children are out beating the old and defenseless? raping 92 year old grandmas? holy crap!

the golden america is past, folks. i'm thankful i was alive to see it and more thankful that i probably won't be alive to see it die.

Level 5

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#8 Nov 28, 2013
old dawg wrote:
has the "Golden Age" of America passed, as has happened to every great society in history?
what made this country so great? what are we doing now differently than before?
i've always been told that we study history so we don't make the same mistakes our forefathers did.
we are called a democracy, does anyone understand what that means? what is the definition of the common good?
how much should a government control your life and home?
i'm not condemning nor condoning, i'm attempting to open a conversation, not an argument. try to discuss this civilly. it's very OK to disagree with each other, that's how new ideas come about, but i've observed that once the vocabulary erodes to 4 letter words, the validity of the discussion is over.
ok, one, two, ready, set, GO!
No four letter words.
Our infrastructure is third world, and failing fast.China and India are passing us in that area.
Our fresh water is running out. That means our food supply will be short. These are legit concerns. Bad infrastructure, and food shortages= not so golden years. History repeats its self.
I'm not trying to sell doom and gloom, just facts.
If we lose the food production from the West and Southwest, we are in big trouble. California,s water supply is in trouble also.

http://ascendingstarseed.wordpress.com/tag/ho...
Michael The Disciple

Mount Vernon, KY

#9 Nov 29, 2013
America has turned its back on God for the most part. Now he has turned his back to us. The golden era of America is gone.

All that matters now is free sex. Kids are trained in it though 12 years of school.

Not many years from now we will be owned by China.

Level 5

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#10 Nov 29, 2013
Michael The Disciple wrote:
America has turned its back on God for the most part. Now he has turned his back to us. The golden era of America is gone.
All that matters now is free sex. Kids are trained in it though 12 years of school.
Not many years from now we will be owned by China.
China owns very litttle of our debt.
Tough Love

Somerset, KY

#11 Nov 29, 2013
old dawg wrote:
has the "Golden Age" of America passed, as has happened to every great society in history?
what made this country so great? what are we doing now differently than before?
i've always been told that we study history so we don't make the same mistakes our forefathers did.
we are called a democracy, does anyone understand what that means? what is the definition of the common good?
how much should a government control your life and home?
i'm not condemning nor condoning, i'm attempting to open a conversation, not an argument. try to discuss this civilly. it's very OK to disagree with each other, that's how new ideas come about, but i've observed that once the vocabulary erodes to 4 letter words, the validity of the discussion is over.
ok, one, two, ready, set, GO!
What to YOU consider to be our "Golden Age?" You first have to have a standard or perceived ideal to work from.
Tough Love

Somerset, KY

#12 Nov 29, 2013
Michael The Disciple wrote:
America has turned its back on God for the most part. Now he has turned his back to us. The golden era of America is gone.
All that matters now is free sex. Kids are trained in it though 12 years of school.
Not many years from now we will be owned by China.
Gomer-ez is correct. China hold only 8% of our debt. The majority is owed to other parts of our own government. It's money that was "borrowed" from programs like Social Security (16-19 % depending on who does the calculating) and Medicare -- two programs that would be solvent if greedy politicians hadn't tapped into them for pork barrel projects back home, handouts, tax cuts and wars we couldn't pay for.

Level 5

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#13 Nov 29, 2013
Tough Love wrote:
<quoted text>
Gomer-ez is correct. China hold only 8% of our debt. The majority is owed to other parts of our own government. It's money that was "borrowed" from programs like Social Security (16-19 % depending on who does the calculating) and Medicare -- two programs that would be solvent if greedy politicians hadn't tapped into them for pork barrel projects back home, handouts, tax cuts and wars we couldn't pay for.
Here is the break down on debt.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/...

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#14 Nov 29, 2013
MeLoco wrote:
I don't believe the government is the problem. It is my opinion that large corporations are. The history of America has not always been a great one. The working class have took their share of abuse in the past also. We just went 50ish years living in the times of plenty and some things where forgotten. The working class was able to raise above just scratching out a living. Now because of the global market and changes made to trade we can no longer demand decent wages. Yes I do believe Americas glory days are over. Government programs mimic what many believe to be efforts of relief in a down economy. In reality it's just a method for the wealthy to obtain what little wealth that working Americans still have.
Couldn't agree more. I'll echo the sentiment of others concerning work ethic as well. That said, what you say in this post may be one of the root causes of the decline in work ethic. Why bust your hump "for the man" to eek out a living, in debt, while you can eek out the same living, with no debt, sitting on your couch?

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#15 Nov 29, 2013
Tough Love wrote:
<quoted text>
Gomer-ez is correct. China hold only 8% of our debt. The majority is owed to other parts of our own government. It's money that was "borrowed" from programs like Social Security (16-19 % depending on who does the calculating) and Medicare -- two programs that would be solvent if greedy politicians hadn't tapped into them for pork barrel projects back home, handouts, tax cuts and wars we couldn't pay for.
You're on the money as well.
old dawg

Lexington, KY

#16 Nov 29, 2013
Tough Love wrote:
<quoted text>
What to YOU consider to be our "Golden Age?" You first have to have a standard or perceived ideal to work from.
i consider the time after WWII to the mid 90's, especially the 50's through the 70's.
Vote Libertarian

United States

#17 Nov 30, 2013
The America of my youth is gone and those to blame are in Congress. They take our taxes and give it to megacorporations and call it subsidies. Those corporations in turn give it back to the politicians as campaign contributions in return for legislation that leaves the corporations blameless for destroying the planet with stuff like clear cutting public land and mountain top removal, and blameless for cheating their workers out of promised pensions to keep afloat bankers and investment firms that are supposedly, "too big to fail," and for legislation that hinders the little guy but from which the corporations are exempt, like the National Animal Identification System that McConnell and W steamrolled through the USDA without any public comment.

America of the Golden Years would have let failures fail. It would have protected our parks our national treasures. It would have maintained our infrastructure.

We need to get rid of congress starting with getting rid of Mitch McConnell. He didn't become a millionaire on frugal living. When others were worried about losing their houses he voted himself a pay raise.

Americans however are too lazy to vote him out. They're too lazy to even vote. Only 1/3 of eligible voters show up. They want their cable TV and their glittery movie stars and their beauty products. They sit back and watch their reality TV and say, "The system is rigged, so why even try?" They could make a difference if they just once every 2 years got off the couch and voted for someone from outside the corrupt system
Tough Love

Somerset, KY

#18 Nov 30, 2013
old dawg wrote:
<quoted text>
i consider the time after WWII to the mid 90's, especially the 50's through the 70's.
It’s hard to top the post WWII period. We were high off a huge victory and the can do spirit was both empowering and infectious. People felt there wasn’t anything they couldn’t accomplish if they worked hard. Further education was no longer just for the wealthy and a whole new group of innovators and leaders burst onto the scene. Many corporations became extremely wealthy because of the war time economy and recognized that the American worker was not just a means to an end, but played a huge role in their success. As a result wages/benefits grew in proportion with corporate profits. Companies not only rewarded workers, but reinvested earnings in their businesses which in turn let to more jobs and state of the art manufacturing. Companies were proud of what they made and US workmanship set the standard world wide. For the most part, this held true until the early 80s when the tech boom led to a hyper-inflated stock market and a level of corporate/share holder greed set in that had not been seen since the industrial revolution. Profits became the only game and senior management was richly rewarded for keeping earnings levels high. Wages became stagnant, benefits disappeared and within one generation workers went from being valued to being a financial drag on the corporate bottom line. As a result our middle class, once the envy of the world, had less purchasing power each year and found it increasingly difficult to support a family. Pessimism gradually replaced optimism and instead of working together for a common purpose we became an “every man for himself nation.”

For me the question is can we reverse this and if so how. Greed is a powerful emotion and I suspect it would be difficult to reverse the current corporate trend. Also, how do you instill responsibility and a strong work ethic in a working population that falls farther and farther behind each year and sees little hope in ever achieving the same middle class dream that was so tangible in the 50s and 60s?

I really hate to see people blame the “younger generation” or “government” for our situation. Both are simply products of our own actions. Children live the lessons we teach them. They don’t grow up in a vacuum. Besides, there are still a lot of hard working people out there who are doing amazing things and making things happen. It’s just that you rarely hear about them on the 24/7 news, which panders to the angry, pessimistic and disaffected. Blaming “government” seems to be another popular theme these days. It’s always nice to have someone to blame. That way you never have to accept responsibility for electing the same self serving representatives year after year. That’s not to say that we don’t have real problems, every generation does. For me it’s not the absence of problems that makes for a Golden Age, but rather how we solve them. It’s also about the availability of genuine opportunities to succeed. Instead of trying to emulate what we may perceive as a more idillic past, perhaps we’d be better served by looking forward. I’d rather see us putting our effort into developing strategies for restoring the middle class and for expanding economic opportunities for all who are willing to work for them.
Time2Worry

Flat Lick, KY

#19 Nov 30, 2013
Gomer-ez wrote:
<quoted text>
China owns very litttle of our debt.
China owns most of our external debt.
Idyllic

Flat Lick, KY

#20 Nov 30, 2013
Tough Love wrote:
<quoted text>Pessimism gradually replaced optimism and instead of working together for a common purpose we became an “every man for himself nation.”
For me the question is can we reverse this and if so how.
It has always been this way. The "common purpose" you speak of is simply your own personal fantasy, not reality.
Tough Love

Somerset, KY

#21 Nov 30, 2013
Idyllic wrote:
<quoted text>
It has always been this way. The "common purpose" you speak of is simply your own personal fantasy, not reality.
Although I was born a few years after WWII, my parents and those of their generation not only experienced "the common purpose" of the time, but spoke about their efforts and sacrifices with great pride. Common purpose was also what brought 12 very different colonies together to fight the British and establish a nation following the Revolutionary War. These are only two of the many examples in our history when people set aside their personal goals to work for the greater good.

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