hostess shutting down
Wormwood

Whitley City, KY

#23 Nov 19, 2012
A lot of good points have been made in this thread. Unions do have a purpose but do they go over the top sometimes? Of course they do. Do company owners and top executives go over the top sometimes? Of course they do. It would be hard to tell a company owner who has brought together good intelligent people to build that company, that they cannot reward themselves and those who worked hard to build the company.

We simply cannot punish those people for making money and building their American dream. Lets face it, the common laborer is at the bottom of the food chain so to speak.

In a bad economy, everyone should be willing to make consessions but the top dogs are simply not going to take a cut in pay or give up that Summer vacation beach home because to them, they deserve it for all their hard work in building their companies.

Has Obama cut the number of Whitehouse chefs? Has he cut his personal spending? It will always be the worker/laborer who gets the cuts in his lifestyle because a democracy insures that the rich stay rich from the efforts of the poor.

I think it was King Solomon who told mankind to watch the ant and be wise. It wasn't just because the ant always stores food for the future but because all ants are equal, they all live in the same dirt pile and eat the same food and you never see an ant protest rally. In our society, we would call that 'true communism', the hippies tried it (hippie commune) but society in general didn't like it. Our democracy has become a dictatorship already and we evidently didn't see it coming.

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#24 Nov 19, 2012
BTDT wrote:
Holy Jeebus H Keyrist.
I should have known better.
Yeah, you should have than to keep sending dems and reps back to DC to pillage more and more for them and their campaign sponsors.

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#25 Nov 19, 2012
Wormwood wrote:
A lot of good points have been made in this thread. Unions do have a purpose but do they go over the top sometimes? Of course they do. Do company owners and top executives go over the top sometimes? Of course they do. It would be hard to tell a company owner who has brought together good intelligent people to build that company, that they cannot reward themselves and those who worked hard to build the company.
We simply cannot punish those people for making money and building their American dream. Lets face it, the common laborer is at the bottom of the food chain so to speak.
In a bad economy, everyone should be willing to make consessions but the top dogs are simply not going to take a cut in pay or give up that Summer vacation beach home because to them, they deserve it for all their hard work in building their companies.
Has Obama cut the number of Whitehouse chefs? Has he cut his personal spending? It will always be the worker/laborer who gets the cuts in his lifestyle because a democracy insures that the rich stay rich from the efforts of the poor.
I think it was King Solomon who told mankind to watch the ant and be wise. It wasn't just because the ant always stores food for the future but because all ants are equal, they all live in the same dirt pile and eat the same food and you never see an ant protest rally. Our democracy has become a dictatorship already and we evidently didn't see it coming.
I agree with a lot, but not all top dogs are greedy SOBs. The company I went to work for is a prime example. It was on the verge, employees had taken cuts, the owner was sinking his own money in it to keep it afloat. He quit his vacations, to this day he drives a mini van, lives in a town home. I left a company of the greedy types, I got tired of the way they treated the employees. Hell, they were so arrogant, they began treating customers rough!

Anyway, I lost my bonus, lost my pay for working Saturdays to prove a point by going to work for a struggling rival. Four employees took pay cuts to come with me,$2.00 an hour. We got over here, dug in, went to work, used alliances and business relationships built over the years to take a huge of chunk of business with us. We were able to first cut our prices to compete better. We took more business. Our prices are still higher, but service and personality go a long way. As does PERCEPTION. It is known how the other side operates, and how this company actually gives back to the community and treats people better. After that first season, our owner was able to cut the first Christmas bonus checks in 7 years, a quarter of a week's pay.....a few short months removed from shuttering the business, mind you. We had the first Christmas dinner in 4 years. The business continued to flourish. The owner took a vacation (well deserved trip offshore), re-invested in some equipment upgrades. Meanwhile, the competition built a multi million dollar home, and bought fancy cars while cutting the throats of their employees. I hired two more of theirs and inked their biggest local customer to our side.

This year, we are handing out a week's pay for Christmas bonuses in only our second season together, a 5% raise for the employees. I refused a bonus last year, and turned down a raise in order for these people who had suffered through pay cuts to get their paychecks back where they should be.

The moral of the story, we ran these guys' rear ends off rebuilding this business. It wasn't just ownership's, nor my hard work...it was a group effort. Now, EVERYONE is going to be rewarded.....EVERYONE. Businesses like these will flourish, one's like the other will ultimately fail in the grand scheme of things. What goes around, comes around....sometimes it just takes a little patience. Revenge is a VERY STRONG motive.....careful what you do to your productive workers.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#26 Nov 19, 2012
Down with union bullies. Down with monopoly.

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#27 Nov 19, 2012
Brian_G wrote:
Down with union bullies. Down with monopoly.
The actions of unions once helped bring down the monopolies....just sayin'. Union reform is needed, we already know what monopoly brings to the working man, if we learn our history....
Paul Revere

Manchester, KY

#28 Nov 19, 2012
Because of the union contracts that were part of the deal when Hostess purchased the bakeries, inefficency ran amok. Over 300 different contracts were involved. Bread trucks were forbidden from carrying cakes and vice versa due to such contracts. Overlapping routes, limitations on whate could be sold by certain routes, etc. Union members were fined for crossing picket lines to work and feed their families. It was an absolute mess.
Unions weren't interested in compromise or streamlining and so today 18,000 people are unemployed.
Another victory for Big Labor!!!

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#29 Nov 19, 2012
Yeah, the union got this one wrong, no doubt. Do unions need reformed, or in some cases, abolished? Yes, no doubt.

Do CEOs need to sell a couple or three houses here and there, quit the planes, quit the limos, quit the seven figure bonuses to help the company line as well in this economy as well? You bet your ass!

When is the executive level gonna "take one on the chin" to better a company? When are politicians going to take a cut, lose the lifetime benefits, lose the lifetime healthcare, security, etc? Are cuts only good for the "commoners" Paul?

When are we going to stop this free trade nonsense? I mean, this NAFTA thing was SUPPOSED to benefit EVERYONE in this arrangement. Now, Mexico is imposing sugar tariffs on us? We're letting them get by with it? WTF? Because they are bought and paid for in DC just like William McKinley.

Unions need to be reigned in, no question, but to return the business practices of JP Morgan, Carnegie, and Rockefeller isn't the way either....which is what they want. What you want too Paul?

There HAS TO BE a compromise.....

Level 8

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#30 Nov 19, 2012
Wormwood wrote:
A lot of good points have been made in this thread. Unions do have a purpose but do they go over the top sometimes? Of course they do. Do company owners and top executives go over the top sometimes? Of course they do. It would be hard to tell a company owner who has brought together good intelligent people to build that company, that they cannot reward themselves and those who worked hard to build the company.
We simply cannot punish those people for making money and building their American dream. Lets face it, the common laborer is at the bottom of the food chain so to speak.
In a bad economy, everyone should be willing to make consessions but the top dogs are simply not going to take a cut in pay or give up that Summer vacation beach home because to them, they deserve it for all their hard work in building their companies.
Has Obama cut the number of Whitehouse chefs? Has he cut his personal spending? It will always be the worker/laborer who gets the cuts in his lifestyle because a democracy insures that the rich stay rich from the efforts of the poor.
I think it was King Solomon who told mankind to watch the ant and be wise. It wasn't just because the ant always stores food for the future but because all ants are equal, they all live in the same dirt pile and eat the same food and you never see an ant protest rally. In our society, we would call that 'true communism', the hippies tried it (hippie commune) but society in general didn't like it. Our democracy has become a dictatorship already and we evidently didn't see it coming.
King Solomon also had 300 wives and 700 concubines - Now them gals would surely like a few Ding Dongs & Twinkies -
I call for a government bailout -
MMAN

London, KY

#31 Nov 19, 2012
JumperJuice wrote:
<quoted text>Not really.....the REAL questions to ask are these:
1.) Why did management give themselves an 80% pay hike, while the rank and file had not had a raise in TWELVE YEARS? Menawhile, the company had been in bankruptcy.....TWICE. I'm in management, I don't get raises for FAILURE.
2.) Why was the CEO making 2.55 million per year if the company was struggling so much? Where was the paycut there? The rank and file had already made concessions....upper management refused to.
3.) Why is Grupo Bimbo the most likely candidate for becoming the purchaser of Hostess? The answer is the ridiculously high sugar tariff that Mexico enforces on US companies to protect theirs. How's that NAFTA thing you all voted for in 1992 working out for you now? Dumbasses.
4.) Free trade is ruining this nation, not unions. Why don't you demand the repeal of free trade legislation? This case is actually a PRIME example of the screwing this country's workers are taking (yet again) as a result of electing corrupt officials who are in bed with big business. This is EXACTLY what Ross Perot Perot meant in 1992. He warned you all, you didn't listen. You just keep sending Democrats and republicans back to office to rape us all more and more. That's the ONLY reason these workers got what they deserve, save for the ones who vote third party.
Exactly...and some genuises come on here saying "unions bleeding companies dry". It looks like the execs bled it dry. What morons.
MMAN

London, KY

#32 Nov 19, 2012
Proven fact that unions helped bring this country out of the great depression...check your history. This country thrived under high union membership. Many people believe that it is because of unions that the jobs went away...not so, many companies thrived for years and years with unionization. The real reason they left...the laws were written that allowed them to leave.
MMAN

London, KY

#33 Nov 19, 2012
Union= PEOPLE, PRIDE, AND PAY!

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#34 Nov 19, 2012
MMAN wrote:
Proven fact that unions helped bring this country out of the great depression...check your history. This country thrived under high union membership. Many people believe that it is because of unions that the jobs went away...not so, many companies thrived for years and years with unionization. The real reason they left...the laws were written that allowed them to leave.
EXACTLY. I had a Romney guy tell me Saturday to "look at Germany". "They have low corporate tax rates."...I said "you realize they have a unionized labor force as well, right? "

He had no clue. I actually changed his mind when he realized that was a fact. He had never been told that by his spinmiesters. Same as the other side never gets told about the favorable corporate rate when looking to Germany as an example of union prosperity.

The FACT is, compromise can be reached...the workers can be protected, and the owners can be awarded accordingly for risk and creating jobs. You just have to reign in the greed.....on BOTH ends. If people REALLY care about America, they better get on board.
SMARTY

Somerset, KY

#35 Nov 20, 2012
JumperJuice wrote:
<quoted text>
EXACTLY. I had a Romney guy tell me Saturday to "look at Germany". "They have low corporate tax rates."...I said "you realize they have a unionized labor force as well, right? "
He had no clue. I actually changed his mind when he realized that was a fact. He had never been told that by his spinmiesters. Same as the other side never gets told about the favorable corporate rate when looking to Germany as an example of union prosperity.
The FACT is, compromise can be reached...the workers can be protected, and the owners can be awarded accordingly for risk and creating jobs. You just have to reign in the greed.....on BOTH ends. If people REALLY care about America, they better get on board.
my friend as a veteran did u explain to youre friend that germany was the only country to start 2 world wars due to youre beloved unions....its called socialism.....government controlled the people.....i lived there for some time...first hanf eperience with the locals as one mite say..do you really think everyone should be equal pay....dr vs factory worker.....college degree vs high school....what do you want......
MMAN

London, KY

#36 Nov 20, 2012
SMARTY wrote:
<quoted text>my friend as a veteran did u explain to youre friend that germany was the only country to start 2 world wars due to youre beloved unions....its called socialism.....government controlled the people.....i lived there for some time...first hanf eperience with the locals as one mite say..do you really think everyone should be equal pay....dr vs factory worker.....college degree vs high school....what do you want......
Unions have absolutely nothing to do with socialism. No everyone should not necessarily have equal pay, but for those who do work hard, they should be rewarded and not by a measly $8.50 per hour while a CEO gets $850 per hour. The pay gap does need to be narrowed some and the way to do this is through the workers and the employer coming together to bargain without government interference.

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#37 Nov 20, 2012
SMARTY wrote:
<quoted text>my friend as a veteran did u explain to youre friend that germany was the only country to start 2 world wars due to youre beloved unions....its called socialism.....government controlled the people.....i lived there for some time...first hanf eperience with the locals as one mite say..do you really think everyone should be equal pay....dr vs factory worker.....college degree vs high school....what do you want......
First, off, I would like to thank all of our veterans for fighting for the cause to allow to be on here complaining. Secondly, while flattered to be called a veteran, I was referring to my 90 year-old, WWII vet grandfather....so I cannot lay claim to that illustrious title, nor will I.

Now that that is out of the way, could you please show me where I insinuated I was for equal pay? Sure, I've said LIVABLE WAGES, FAIR PAY.....but I don't recall saying equal pay anywhere, nor at anytime.

WWII was about FAR more than socialistic beliefs. Yes, by name, the Nazis were socialists, but I'm fairly certain it was more about a murderous ego-maniac hell bent on world domination and genocide more than anything. WWI was started over an assassination that was the culmination of YEARS of squabbling over boundaries, alliances, and militarism. But hey, why let facts get in the way of politics? DC certainly never does!

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#38 Nov 20, 2012
MMAN wrote:
<quoted text>
The pay gap does need to be narrowed some and the way to do this is through the workers and the employer coming together to bargain without government interference.
Couldn't agree more.
old dawg

Nicholasville, KY

#39 Nov 20, 2012
this is another example of WHO THE HE** DO YOU BELIVE?!!!

i read one place it's the CEO's fault and somewhere else its the baker's union fault...

i have an on-line acquaintance that is part of the organization and he says the baker's caused the problem. he's a deliveryman in a large city and he was telling me the red tape and hoops the unions make them jump through in a day's time.

so we're back to nobody taking blame for anything
Link

Somerset, KY

#40 Nov 20, 2012
JumperJuice wrote:
<quoted text>Probably poor management by CEOs who paid themselves a multi-million dollar bonus while the company was in bankruptcy before. That said, since the company was facing bankruptcy AGAIN, the unions should have probably conceded a bit.....although the Teamsters DID reach a contract with Hostess.
Truth be known, the owners probably wanted to sell and are using this as an excuse. be patient, they will be back, with new owners, and will start baking arsenic and who knows what else into their pastries in China by month's end.
Good post!

&fe ature=share&list=UUTlbskr8 TIHHwGnjYWLnXNw
SMARTY

Somerset, KY

#41 Nov 20, 2012
JumperJuice wrote:
<quoted text>First, off, I would like to thank all of our veterans for fighting for the cause to allow to be on here complaining. Secondly, while flattered to be called a veteran, I was referring to my 90 year-old, WWII vet grandfather....so I cannot lay claim to that illustrious title, nor will I.
Now that that is out of the way, could you please show me where I insinuated I was for equal pay? Sure, I've said LIVABLE WAGES, FAIR PAY.....but I don't recall saying equal pay anywhere, nor at anytime.
WWII was about FAR more than socialistic beliefs. Yes, by name, the Nazis were socialists, but I'm fairly certain it was more about a murderous ego-maniac hell bent on world domination and genocide more than anything. WWI was started over an assassination that was the culmination of YEARS of squabbling over boundaries, alliances, and militarism. But hey, why let facts get in the way of politics? DC certainly never does!
I BELEIVE IT MAY HAVE BEEN SOMETING about a man called fernando or something...im a veteran... i lved in germany and several other european countries...and it was socialism that allowed the nazis to take control of the people.....im not didtorted facts..ive lived them....look at any socialist country...the government controls the people....i live in the united states because the people do not want to be controlled...now if you want tp pay someone what u think is right...so be it...if u stay in buisnesss so b it...im saying no one or no union should tell me what to pay....if i stay in buisness so b it if not....im not blaming anyone but myself....if employees r not happy let them leave....no jails here or enterment camps....im not starting buisnesses to make employees money..i do it to make me and my family money....if u beleive any person or company or corp start buisnesses just to make employess happy....u liven in never never land

“One day at a time”

Level 6

Since: Oct 12

----<>-----<>----<>-----<>---

#42 Nov 20, 2012
JumperJuice wrote:
<quoted text>Couldn't agree more.
We are AMERICANS,we trust a Willard over a Hussien any day!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Somerset Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Bible study rules for public schools proposed (Feb '10) 4 min Athenesword 138,156
MBI truck drivers (Aug '08) 1 hr Smartass 56
the music thread (Jan '12) 2 hr _Dumpling_ 473
Victoria Secret 3 hr UnclePaul 7
Play chain reaction (Sep '08) 4 hr Trouser Cough 12,163
*keep a word- drop a word* Game (Jul '11) 4 hr Trouser Cough 11,198
Hey Hatti. (Jan '12) 4 hr Trouser Cough 26,357
More from around the web

Somerset People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]