sandy hook fake?

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

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#26 Jan 21, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
The world is far more complicated than the way conspiracy theories want it to be. There is no shadowy elite pulling your strings.
While I certainly don't buy into every theory coming down the pike, if there is not at least some corroboration between the uber wealthy corporations and the politicians, that only leaves stupidity to explain their actions. I just find it hard to believe that these elected "leaders" are THAT stupid. There has to be more than meets the eye. They can't be that dumb, can they?
Grey Boxer

London, KY

#27 Jan 21, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw Zeitgeist when it first came out. I was intrigued, then I did some research on it. Turns out the movie is...less than stellar in the area of factual correctness.
The religious section, while pretty awesome to watch, is just not supported by evidence. It is largely based on a book called "The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold". This site has a really nice breakdown, including the actual transcript from the movie itself:
http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articl...
From Skeptoid:
"Joseph made a second film, Zeitgeist: Addendum which offers much better insight into the man and his motivations for creating Zeitgeist. He's basically a postmodern utopian, who spends most of his effort speaking out against money-based economics. He advocates the rejection of government, profit, banking, and civil infrastructure: basically, the "establishment". Once you understand where he's coming from, it makes it a lot easier to understand why he made Zeitgeist and tried so hard to point out the corruption and evils of the establishment. The problem is that he simply made up a bunch of crap to drive his point, and that's where he crossed the line between philosophical advocacy and unethical propaganda."
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4196
The second part of the movie is where he really lost me. When you get into worldwide conspiracies I just think it breaks down into fantasy and hyperactive pattern-seeking.
The world is far more complicated than the way conspiracy theories want it to be. There is no shadowy elite pulling your strings.
I understand, there were things in there that were over the top and a lot of truths were stretched but at the same time it made you think. Even you said it made you research it further and anytime something encourages thought and research, that's a good thing. Things like the ties between Christianity and early Pagan sun worship is made more than obvious and its worth checking out. I highly recommend watching the movie.
Iced Toad

Somerset, KY

#28 Jan 21, 2013
I was fearful that the human race was getting it's shit together and becoming more compassionate and caring toward one another. I was fearful because that would be boring. But after reading some of this crap, I realize that we are still doomed by idiots. Thanks, you heartless morons.
My2Cents

United States

#29 Jan 22, 2013
Laughing out loud. Country folks and their way of being brainwashed by a YouTube video, made by someone that clearly needs a high dose of meds.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Level 6

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#30 Jan 22, 2013
JumperJuice wrote:
<quoted text>While I certainly don't buy into every theory coming down the pike, if there is not at least some corroboration between the uber wealthy corporations and the politicians, that only leaves stupidity to explain their actions. I just find it hard to believe that these elected "leaders" are THAT stupid. There has to be more than meets the eye. They can't be that dumb, can they?
Oh I agree. There is definitely collaboration going on between all kinds of powerful people. I'm not saying that conspiracies don't exist. But the Conspiracy Theory culture is almost entirely made up of paranoid people indulging anomaly hunting, pattern seeking, and fantasy.

An example of a real conspiracy is Watergate. A simple, botched conspiracy.

And all it takes is really just more than one person involved to make it a conspiracy. So if a shooting involves the planning of more than one person then it is a conspiracy.

The trouble with the Conspiracy Theory culture is that they have these absolutely ridiculous, elaborate conspiracies that span decades or centuries involving thousands of people that are somehow able to keep it all top secret. These people command vast resources and are capable of pulling of science-fiction-level events (chemtrails, cell phone mind control, etc).

Yet somehow a guy in his basement is able to figure it out. Only HE knows the truth. And when you ask for evidence...well they are covering it up!

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Level 6

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#31 Jan 22, 2013
Grey Boxer wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand, there were things in there that were over the top and a lot of truths were stretched but at the same time it made you think. Even you said it made you research it further and anytime something encourages thought and research, that's a good thing. Things like the ties between Christianity and early Pagan sun worship is made more than obvious and its worth checking out. I highly recommend watching the movie.
I appreciate the point you make but I disagree. I don't think this movie makes most people think and do research. Instead it bolsters their already existing fantasies about conspiracies. Only the people who are not already invested in the idea of a global conspiracy might actually do some digging into the movie's tenets. Others will actually use the movie itself AS evidence.

If you're going to watch this movie I would strongly suggest reading as many skeptical critiques of it as possible either before or after. Or during. But do not simply take it at face value.

Good conversation, btw. Nice to be able to talk about this without devolving into a flame war.

For the record, if I sound slightly irritable on the topic, its the whole Sandy Hook Conspiracy thing. I find myself unable to stomach it.
Yeah

Butler, KY

#32 Jan 22, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
An example of a real conspiracy is Watergate. A simple, botched conspiracy.
I always think of Watergate, also.

Another is Margaret Sanger's plan to exterminate the black race through planned parenthood. Real, modern, evil conspiracy.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Level 6

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#33 Jan 22, 2013
Yeah wrote:
<quoted text>
I always think of Watergate, also.
Another is Margaret Sanger's plan to exterminate the black race through planned parenthood. Real, modern, evil conspiracy.
Wrong. Margaret never had a plan to "exterminate the black race". Where in the world did you hear that nonsense??

It is true that she came from a time in which racism was an institution and that she was probably heavily influenced by ideas that we now consider to be racist in nature. That probably makes her a racist. I agree.

However, her efforts to create a rights-based birth control revolution were NOT in any sense "racist". Most of the vitriol you hear about this subject comes from people who are simply opposed to abortion. And Margaret Sanger is the poster child for evil in their minds.

Planned Parenthood was in no way a "conspiracy" in the sense that we mean the word when referring to something like Watergate. There is an implied secrecy when we use this kind of language. There is nothing secret about the attempt to put reproductive rights into the hands of women, where it belongs.

Again, this thread is about a disgusting little internet meme being perpetuated by small-minded people who don't even have the decency to let the dead children's bodies get cold before they go ghoul all over them.
Yeah

United States

#34 Jan 22, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. Margaret never had a plan to "exterminate the black race". Where in the world did you hear that nonsense??
It is true that she came from a time in which racism was an institution and that she was probably heavily influenced by ideas that we now consider to be racist in nature. That probably makes her a racist. I agree.
However, her efforts to create a rights-based birth control revolution were NOT in any sense "racist". Most of the vitriol you hear about this subject comes from people who are simply opposed to abortion. And Margaret Sanger is the poster child for evil in their minds.
Planned Parenthood was in no way a "conspiracy" in the sense that we mean the word when referring to something like Watergate. There is an implied secrecy when we use this kind of language. There is nothing secret about the attempt to put reproductive rights into the hands of women, where it belongs.
Again, this thread is about a disgusting little internet meme being perpetuated by small-minded people who don't even have the decency to let the dead children's bodies get cold before they go ghoul all over them.
Oh my, not much on history when it offends your looney liberal sensibilities. In another generation, liberals will deny the holocaust and call anyone that believes it a conspiracy theorist. I don't even know why I respond to dipshits like yourself.
Yeah

United States

#35 Jan 22, 2013
I did't expect that anyone would deny Sanger's eugenics ideology, but since we have nutcase libs on here, just google or yahoo "Margaret Sanger eugenics" and decide for youselves.
Old

Beattyville, KY

#37 Jan 22, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<The second part of the movie is where he really lost me. When you get into worldwide conspiracies I just think it breaks down into fantasy and hyperactive pattern-seeking.
The world is far more complicated than the way conspiracy theories want it to be. There is no shadowy elite pulling your strings.
There is, only not in the traditional sense of a conspiracy. Normally you think of a conspiracy as two or more inividuals planning to do something to the detriment of others. What's actually going on is simply some peole have figured out how to screw the system and laugh at the rest of us and gradually more and more people decide that the rest of deserve to get the shaft and join the forces of evil. It's not o much a conspiracy as a shift to the dark forces. More and more are siding with evil

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Level 6

Since: Dec 11

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#38 Jan 22, 2013
Yeah wrote:
I did't expect that anyone would deny Sanger's eugenics ideology, but since we have nutcase libs on here, just google or yahoo "Margaret Sanger eugenics" and decide for youselves.
Yes, please do that. And please read criticisms of the right wingers' claims on the subject.

I absolutely DO accept that she was a racist. It is evident in her own language. But she did not in any way create a program to "exterminate the black race" as has been suggested.

She is the founder of an organization that provides reproductive services to women who might not be able to afford them otherwise. Fundies hear "abortion clinic" and go nuts with the conspiracy theories and rhetoric.

Google it. Read sources that are as fair minded as possible. Start with Wiki, work your way out. Avoid Fundamentalist sources because you already know they are not interested in the truth.

As an aside, also consider that the word "eugenics" has been hijacked by insane people. It really only refers to selective breeding. When you mate two German Shepherds that have good qualities you are doing eugenics. So the word itself does not necessarily imply anything evil. It is only when the eugenics being practiced are specifically intended to do harm to some class, race, or other group of people or to people in general that we are talking about evil.

When a farmer breeds cows it is not an act of evil. When a dictator tries to exterminate a race of people it IS an act of evil. Both are a kind of eugenics.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Level 6

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#39 Jan 22, 2013
Old wrote:
<quoted text>
There is, only not in the traditional sense of a conspiracy. Normally you think of a conspiracy as two or more inividuals planning to do something to the detriment of others. What's actually going on is simply some peole have figured out how to screw the system and laugh at the rest of us and gradually more and more people decide that the rest of deserve to get the shaft and join the forces of evil. It's not o much a conspiracy as a shift to the dark forces. More and more are siding with evil
I dislike the "evil" language, personally, but I do agree with your overall point on this. Certainly it is true that exclusive clubs allow people with privilege to get a foothold that others cannot get. If you have enough money you can get all kinds of perks and benefits that the rest of us are never going to be able to get.

But that's kind of the way nature works. We humans are able to think our way through it, which is why we recognize it as a potentially bad thing. But it is natural any way you slice it.
Yeah

London, KY

#40 Jan 22, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Google it. Read sources that are as fair minded as possible. Start with Wiki, work your way out. Avoid Fundamentalist sources because you already know they are not interested in the truth.
Ha ha ha. This is funny. I suggested that you google Sanger eugenics and make up your own mind. This moron suggests that you read only the sources that HE recommends and then decide. What a classic example of a double talking liberal dipshit. Too funny

Liberalism = the appearance of free thought

Level 2

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#41 Jan 22, 2013
I was born and raised in NJ and spent my summers at the NJ shore. For all you redneck hillbillies out there, my state has suffered the worst natural disaster in US history and you dumb fools are too illiterite to know better! How dare you!

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

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#42 Jan 22, 2013
comare wrote:
I was born and raised in NJ and spent my summers at the NJ shore. For all you redneck hillbillies out there, my state has suffered the worst natural disaster in US history and you dumb fools are too illiterite to know better! How dare you!
We may be "illiterite" (sic)(you may want to brush up on your spelling before questioning ANYONE'S literacy, btw....just throwing that out there), but we're smart enough to realize that a Category 5 hurricane (Katrina) is MUCH worse than a Category 1.....and most of didn't even attend a meteorological school of any kind!(it was the worst storm on the ATLANTIC COAST, not the United States, idiot)

What does TROPICAL STORM Sandy have to do with this conversation anyway? Not only can you not spell properly, you can't read for context or simple subject matter either! Just what were they teaching you up there in Jersey? How to properly dye the tips of your Jersey boy spikey-do? LOL!

Level 2

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#43 Jan 22, 2013
According to the US National Weather Services, the damage (in dollars) was the worst in US history. Their facts, not mine. You obviously watched the Jersey Shore TV program, which REAL Jersey people wouldn't have anything to do with. Low life representation of uneducated, foul-mouth, Italian-type misfits. NJ high schools send more seniors on to college than southern states... check YOUR facts. I might also add, we were the first Industrialized state in the nation... long before Kentucky was even a territory! I don't play "tit-for-tat" when you ask what does this have to do with "Sandy. The idiots were posting comments saying Sandy was a hoax. I've been home... people still without their home, water, and electric... Idiot!

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Level 6

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#44 Jan 22, 2013
Yeah wrote:
<quoted text>
Ha ha ha. This is funny. I suggested that you google Sanger eugenics and make up your own mind. This moron suggests that you read only the sources that HE recommends and then decide. What a classic example of a double talking liberal dipshit. Too funny
Liberalism = the appearance of free thought
So you think starting with a common, heavily-vetted source such as Wikipedia is a "classic example of a double talking liberal dipshit"?

That's interesting. Where do you begin your own research, Conservapedia?

I'm not interested in flame wars. I prefer talking about reality. The reality is Sanger didn't create a conspiracy to destroy the black race. If your sources claim she did then your sources are wrong. List them and let's see if we can parse out the truth from the fiction.

Unless you are only interested in juvenile name calling.

“Boogie Chill'un”

Level 6

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#45 Jan 22, 2013
comare wrote:
According to the US National Weather Services, the damage (in dollars) was the worst in US history. Their facts, not mine. You obviously watched the Jersey Shore TV program, which REAL Jersey people wouldn't have anything to do with. Low life representation of uneducated, foul-mouth, Italian-type misfits. NJ high schools send more seniors on to college than southern states... check YOUR facts. I might also add, we were the first Industrialized state in the nation... long before Kentucky was even a territory! I don't play "tit-for-tat" when you ask what does this have to do with "Sandy. The idiots were posting comments saying Sandy was a hoax. I've been home... people still without their home, water, and electric... Idiot!
Guess again, moron....the thread is about Sandy HOOK, not Tropical Storm Sandy...you Yankee pricks are just SO damn smart, aren't you? LOL

Level 2

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#46 Jan 22, 2013
Yup... that's why WE won the war... any more foul language you care to share with us all? Class, nothing but class.

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