Progress Somerset - Wet Initiative Un...
Tough Love

Corbin, KY

#82 Mar 19, 2012
_-_Nope_-_ wrote:
Why continually try to badger religion and bring Jesus and his wine consumption into the this debate? It's does no good to continually degrade someones personal religious beliefs on whether Jesus drank wine OR grape juice....
We are trying to keep a civil conversation going. Constantly trying to insert the "Jesus and wine" issue is a mute point. It's not productive and is only furthering animosity toward the very thing that we are trying to amend, which is showing that both sides have the right to follow your own freedoms of choice here as long as one does not offend the other in reality. We are trying to show that voting in alcohol sales is not going to cause this city to turn all Sodom and Gomorrah on everyone.
Bringing fiery anti Christian remarks into this argument is not helpful.. It simply hardens people and pits one side against the other by promoting scripture twisting against rudeness....
In many ways, discussions on Topix are like court room testimony. As soon as one side presents any justification for an opinion, occurrence or event it is fair game and subject to “cross examination” by the opposing side. While I strongly support the art of civil discourse, I don’t believe that any group should be given a pass, simply because they hold a particular religious view. Personally, I agree with Allanon80 -- there are far too many in this community trying to force their own religious agenda on others -- particularly when it comes to civil matters that dictate how we in the community live our lives. If someone views government and the community through their own religious optic, and then seeks to impose that world view on others, then they should be prepared to be challenged.
Biznessman

London, KY

#83 Mar 19, 2012
People are mistaken if they think going wet will turn Somerset into a boom town. All it'll do is make it easier to buy alcoholic beverages. Period. We might get a couple of better restaurants, but not the chains we all go to Lexington to eat at. The wet forces dangle the carrot of industry and good eateries to entice people to vote wet. And the people who want to drink openly use progressivism as a reason to go wet. Why not just speak the truth: many grown-ups want to enjoy adult beverages without having to go out of town. Period. Leave the tourists, the jobs, the growth, etc. out of the conversation. If you're really for it, man up and say so and stop trying to deceive people into thinking they're anti-progress if they're against it. And stop the persecution of the Christians who are opposed to it. Everyone should be able to voice his/her opinion by voting for or against this issue. But if you think Somerset will become a great and growing city if we go "wet", you'll probably be disappointed. Has Burnside attracted industry and chain restaurants??
just me

United States

#84 Mar 19, 2012
Tough Love wrote:
<quoted text>In many ways, discussions on Topix are like court room testimony. As soon as one side presents any justification for an opinion, occurrence or event it is fair game and subject to “cross examination” by the opposing side. While I strongly support the art of civil discourse, I don’t believe that any group should be given a pass, simply because they hold a particular religious view. Personally, I agree with Allanon80 -- there are far too many in this community trying to force their own religious agenda on others -- particularly when it comes to civil matters that dictate how we in the community live our lives. If someone views government and the community through their own religious optic, and then seeks to impose that world view on others, then they should be prepared to be challenged.
very well said!!!!

“smiling on a cloudy day”

Level 7

Since: Jan 09

Shakedown Street

#85 Mar 19, 2012
Biznessman wrote:
People are mistaken if they think going wet will turn Somerset into a boom town. All it'll do is make it easier to buy alcoholic beverages. Period. We might get a couple of better restaurants, but not the chains we all go to Lexington to eat at. The wet forces dangle the carrot of industry and good eateries to entice people to vote wet. And the people who want to drink openly use progressivism as a reason to go wet. Why not just speak the truth: many grown-ups want to enjoy adult beverages without having to go out of town. Period. Leave the tourists, the jobs, the growth, etc. out of the conversation. If you're really for it, man up and say so and stop trying to deceive people into thinking they're anti-progress if they're against it. And stop the persecution of the Christians who are opposed to it. Everyone should be able to voice his/her opinion by voting for or against this issue. But if you think Somerset will become a great and growing city if we go "wet", you'll probably be disappointed. Has Burnside attracted industry and chain restaurants??
Actually, Burnside has. But that's besides the point because they're just moist.

Funny, at the beginning of your post you want to dictate and define the reasons "wet forces"(whoever that is) want legal alcohol sales. You demand that those who are anti-PROHIBITION stop using facts and figures for better industry, growth in the economy, tourism. No, you want us all to just admit we're drunks who want easy access to alcohol.(see my first post in this thread here http://www.topix.com/forum/city/somerset-ky/T... )

Then you go on to tell us to quit disparaging Christians who misquote an ancient book and use that as their ONLY reasoning for voting to continue the economic yoke of PROHIBITION.

Funny you say everyone should be free to voice their opinion, but only if their opinion fits your narrow view of the subject.

And you don't think alcohol sales brings increased economy to a city? You cite little 600 population "moist" Burnside as a comparison. Laughable. Instead look at 3rd class city Danville, who saw an economic increase of $19 MILLION after voting for package alcohol sales.

Wait, wait, I wasn't supposed to mention that, was I?
Biznessman

London, KY

#86 Mar 19, 2012
Bronston Man wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, Burnside has. But that's besides the point because they're just moist.
Funny, at the beginning of your post you want to dictate and define the reasons "wet forces"(whoever that is) want legal alcohol sales. You demand that those who are anti-PROHIBITION stop using facts and figures for better industry, growth in the economy, tourism. No, you want us all to just admit we're drunks who want easy access to alcohol.(see my first post in this thread here http://www.topix.com/forum/city/somerset-ky/T... )
Then you go on to tell us to quit disparaging Christians who misquote an ancient book and use that as their ONLY reasoning for voting to continue the economic yoke of PROHIBITION.
Funny you say everyone should be free to voice their opinion, but only if their opinion fits your narrow view of the subject.
And you don't think alcohol sales brings increased economy to a city? You cite little 600 population "moist" Burnside as a comparison. Laughable. Instead look at 3rd class city Danville, who saw an economic increase of $19 MILLION after voting for package alcohol sales.
Wait, wait, I wasn't supposed to mention that, was I?
Never did my post insinuate that only "drunks" want a wet city. Never did my post say there would not be any revenue. It stated that there would not be the economic growth (factories, resturants) being promised by the pro-wet advocates. If you'll read my previous post, you'll see the reason I think so: the lack of airports, interstates and leadership. If it takes Somerset more than two years to hire a police chief, you think the city can attract major industry and resturants?? Never did my post indicate a "narrow" view. However, those who believe in what you call an "ancient book" still enjoy the same right to their beliefs and the same voting privileges as those who consider themselves progressives.

“smiling on a cloudy day”

Level 7

Since: Jan 09

Shakedown Street

#87 Mar 19, 2012
Biznessman wrote:
<quoted text>
Never did my post say there would not be any revenue.
Sure it did. In the first three sentences:

"All it'll do is make it easier to buy alcoholic beverages. Period."

You even spelled out "period" to emphasize your incorrect belief. Then your very next post you claim to have never said that? Ha!

Everyone has the right to express their opinion here, however misguided, and vote come election time if they're over 18, registered to vote, and live in Somerset.

YOU don't have the right to dictate to the "wet forces"(still waiting to hear who 'they' are) how they frame their argument in support of the repeal of PROHIBITION, a ancient law from 1919.
ManBearPig

Lexington, KY

#88 Mar 19, 2012
I asked if David Weddle lives in Somerset? I think he lives in the county. One reply to that question stated that Rev. Carr and Rev. Miller don't live in Burnside. That makes my point as to why do outsiders stick their noses in our community's interests. I am glad that Mr. Weddle is doing this, but he can't even vote.
Jrer

Somerset, KY

#89 Mar 19, 2012
ManBearPig wrote:
I asked if David Weddle lives in Somerset? I think he lives in the county. One reply to that question stated that Rev. Carr and Rev. Miller don't live in Burnside. That makes my point as to why do outsiders stick their noses in our community's interests. I am glad that Mr. Weddle is doing this, but he can't even vote.
Are you from Lexington?
Westwood

Somerset, KY

#90 Mar 19, 2012
ManBearPig wrote:
I asked if David Weddle lives in Somerset? I think he lives in the county. One reply to that question stated that Rev. Carr and Rev. Miller don't live in Burnside. That makes my point as to why do outsiders stick their noses in our community's interests. I am glad that Mr. Weddle is doing this, but he can't even vote.
That's because the chickenship Somerset locals won't get off their a** long enough to do anything. I'm glad someone is doing it, I don't care who it is.
good guy

United States

#91 Mar 19, 2012
ManBearPig wrote:
I asked if David Weddle lives in Somerset? I think he lives in the county. One reply to that question stated that Rev. Carr and Rev. Miller don't live in Burnside. That makes my point as to why do outsiders stick their noses in our community's interests. I am glad that Mr. Weddle is doing this, but he can't even vote.
Does he live in Somerset?

Also, does this mean that Rev. Carr and the other hundred out-of-town preachers are going to stay out of this election?
Jrer

Somerset, KY

#92 Mar 19, 2012
Bronston Man wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, Burnside has. But that's besides the point because they're just moist.
Funny, at the beginning of your post you want to dictate and define the reasons "wet forces"(whoever that is) want legal alcohol sales. You demand that those who are anti-PROHIBITION stop using facts and figures for better industry, growth in the economy, tourism. No, you want us all to just admit we're drunks who want easy access to alcohol.(see my first post in this thread here http://www.topix.com/forum/city/somerset-ky/T... )
Then you go on to tell us to quit disparaging Christians who misquote an ancient book and use that as their ONLY reasoning for voting to continue the economic yoke of PROHIBITION.
Funny you say everyone should be free to voice their opinion, but only if their opinion fits your narrow view of the subject.
And you don't think alcohol sales brings increased economy to a city? You cite little 600 population "moist" Burnside as a comparison. Laughable. Instead look at 3rd class city Danville, who saw an economic increase of $19 MILLION after voting for package alcohol sales.
Wait, wait, I wasn't supposed to mention that, was I?
I wonder about the social costs. Will crime, alcoholism, DUI, police, fire and treatment cost to name a few increase for the community. I realize that money will be generated for some businesses that can help tax revenues. Will these chain restaurants etc. carry the profits and much of the benefits away? I do think we should be honest and smart to count the liabilities to insure we do not lose more then we gain. Will families be put under greater pressure to implode with easier access to alcohol for parents or teens? It would be nice to see some unbiased stats to help those of us who live here make an correctly informed decision. If Danville has increased liabilities by more then 12-14 Million, I do not think it would be worth the problems. How about you what do you think?

“It is what it is, folks!!”

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#93 Mar 19, 2012
natural born citizen wrote:
<quoted text>if they were so benevolent, they could simply donate the ENTIRE profit from the liquor side of their enterprize to the coffers of the city/county governments
Such as the modern day bootleggers do right now? ROFLBO! You show me one single bootlegger who doesn't keep the better portion of his profits, and I'll purchase you a gallon of his best hootch anad a case of booted Budweiser to go along with it.
After all, the man surely must have the best interests of Somerset at heart, right?
It's money WELL spent in that case, right?

You're not making a very strong point there, "NBC". Nor a valid one.

“It is what it is, folks!!”

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#94 Mar 19, 2012
Tough Love wrote:
<quoted text>Personally, I agree with Allanon80 -- there are far too many in this community trying to force their own religious agenda on others -- particularly when it comes to civil matters that dictate how we in the community live our lives.
It's not that I disagree with Allanon. What I was trying to state was inciting negativity by redundantly placing Jesus and his wine into these arguments, it not productive. It merely fuels the division of sides. Allanon has an argumentative side. It's apparent in many of the comments they place. I'm not condemning his for it, I am stating MY opinion that goading the other side is not productive in any circumstance.

This "Jesus turned water to wine" argument is about as redundant at this point as continually reading "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve". Both phrases literally make my skin crawl due to their overuse when someone has nothing better to contribute to a discussion.

“smiling on a cloudy day”

Level 7

Since: Jan 09

Shakedown Street

#95 Mar 19, 2012
Jrer wrote:
<quoted text>I wonder about the social costs. Will crime, alcoholism, DUI, police, fire and treatment cost to name a few increase for the community. I realize that money will be generated for some businesses that can help tax revenues. Will these chain restaurants etc. carry the profits and much of the benefits away? I do think we should be honest and smart to count the liabilities to insure we do not lose more then we gain. Will families be put under greater pressure to implode with easier access to alcohol for parents or teens? It would be nice to see some unbiased stats to help those of us who live here make an correctly informed decision. If Danville has increased liabilities by more then 12-14 Million, I do not think it would be worth the problems. How about you what do you think?
Absolutely, both the positives and the negatives should be explored. But I think you're somewhat naive if you think legalizing the sale of alcohol in Somerset will give easier access to parents and teens.

As it stands right now teens buy alcohol without trouble off bootleggers, who never card. They also sell other products besides alcohol, introducing our teenagers to drugs.

Legalizing the sell of alcohol locally would put bootleggers out of business. They would then simply be "drug dealers", and regarded as such. "Bootlegger" doesn't carry near the stigma, and is in fact celebrated by many.

Example, the many churches that are gearing up to support them over the next few months; something they would never do for a drug dealer.
Kentucky girl

Middlesboro, KY

#96 Mar 19, 2012
Allanon80 wrote:
21st century meet Somerset.....Somerset I would like you to meet the 21st century. This debate is fairly simple either you wish to force your religious beliefs on another person(something BTW Jesus did not do) or you believe that people should be allowed to make adult choices. Like it or not people are drinking in this country the only thing that this vote does is keep the money in the county....something that is needed. Also not to be the bearer of bad new but Jesus was not against alcohol not matter what you may have heard. I mean this is the man that turned water into wine for a party. Either he knew something the rest of you don't OR he was showing off...which is it?
Yes someone with a brain regarding our young girls hanging out at these places, do something to prevent them from even being able to go!!!

“It is what it is, folks!!”

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#97 Mar 19, 2012
Kentucky girl wrote:
<quoted text> Yes someone with a brain regarding our young girls hanging out at these places, do something to prevent them from even being able to go!!!
So you'd rather keep places such as The Caddy open, when allowing legally regulated establishments with age restrictions could effectively put them out of business? What the heck is your reasoning?? The pervs who frequent those places is beyond sickening. It's the young girls who are preyed upon in these places!

Creating age appropriate locations will starve these local "perv molestation shops" out of business.. When legal adults have someplace else to go, theaw so called "clubs" we now have will fold unless they adhere to and utilize a legal age restriction.
helping you

Pineville, KY

#98 Mar 19, 2012
Jrer wrote:
<quoted text>I wonder about the social costs. Will crime, alcoholism, DUI, police, fire and treatment cost to name a few increase for the community. I realize that money will be generated for some businesses that can help tax revenues. Will these chain restaurants etc. carry the profits and much of the benefits away? I do think we should be honest and smart to count the liabilities to insure we do not lose more then we gain. Will families be put under greater pressure to implode with easier access to alcohol for parents or teens? It would be nice to see some unbiased stats to help those of us who live here make an correctly informed decision. If Danville has increased liabilities by more then 12-14 Million, I do not think it would be worth the problems. How about you what do you think?
I think what you are asking is if this would be a net cost for the city. It may be helpful to look at other cities who voted to go wet. If it were a net cost, those cities would be pushing to go dry again and I don't know of a single city where that has happened. Danville earned $600,000 in taxes for the city since they went wet and it is far less populous than what we call Somerset, especially when you factor in tourism. Somerset is the hub of a micropolitan area that consists of 340,000 people and during the summer, that population swells to double that. There is no way the city wouldn't earn more than Danville. In the Danville case, that is enough to pay a dozen new police officers.

If we take just Burnside which only earns restaurant taxes, a much lower amount than Somerset stands to gain, it has clearly enriched that community. It has drastically expanded, especially considering the tiny population. The reason there not more restaurants there is because of utility issues. At least that is my understanding. If you go and ask the city of Burnside if alcohol has cost the city more than it has earned, they would laugh you out of town.

“smiling on a cloudy day”

Level 7

Since: Jan 09

Shakedown Street

#99 Mar 19, 2012
Alcohol is currently served at the Caddy. You just bring it with you and give it to the folks behind the bar. It happens at all these "dance halls", why do you think so many are found in dry counties?

They're not found elsewhere for a reason. They legally sell liquor elsewhere and don't let little kids in. People call them bars.
helping you

Pineville, KY

#100 Mar 19, 2012
There is another way to look at this. Let's assume that the preachers are correct and alcohol sales are going to damage this community beyond repair. That would mean that, currently with Somerset being a dry community, the crime rate should be far below any other community which sells alcohol. I don't know how often you read the paper, but it simply is not the case.

The truth is that if Somerset had gone wet before, we wouldn't have to drive to Lexington to reach civilization. If you did some market research and found out how much the citizens of PC and tourists visiting our lake gave to the city of Richmond, it would make you sick.

It is also true that companies have considered locating to Somerset and been turned away by the fact that it is dry. It is such a foreign concept to people in other states, that they cannot believe it's even true. Their CEOs would much rather relocate to a "normal" community.

Another thing to consider is that the more educated a person is the more likely they are to consume alcohol. How do we expect to attract and keep educated citizens here by living a century in the past? Check the link below for an explanation of this if you don't believe it.

Education and Alcohol
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/0...

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/...

“It is what it is, folks!!”

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#101 Mar 19, 2012
That's my point, BM. Once ADULTS are given different venues for entertainment, they'll flock to them. IF BY CHANCE, The Caddy decides to apply for and is 'possibly' granted a liquor license, they'll HAVE to comply with the rules and regulations that the ownership of that license involves, or they'll loose it. Therefore, NO UNDER AGE CHILDREN allowed.

I've yet to read a credible adult comment on Topix who claims to be content with the crowds of underage teenage girls who frequent places like The Caddy. No one wants to watch these kids trying to "grind it" on the dance floor with a potential sexual predator... Any adult male who would seek out a teenage girl is a perverted predator. I don't care WHAT anyone else thinks..

There are more positives involved with legal alcohol sales than many are willing to think through just yet..

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