Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72042 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48900 Feb 9, 2013
MUQ TYPED:

Allah is in Arabic what YHWH is in Hebrew and what God is in English.

JOEL - These are not the synonyms of the same being as evidenced in their different characteristics/teachings.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#48901 Feb 9, 2013
No but would they notice!

If you steal then claim it, but never state it's just the copy of the original hanging on your wall.
And soil it when the original owner comes to look.

Than blame him for 'the accident'. And for his exclusive relation.
Voluntarist

United States

#48902 Feb 9, 2013
In a recent article published on the website of the
Brookings Institution, 30 year CIA veteran and current
Brookings senior fellow, Bruce Riedel talks false flag ops in
relation to Algerian counter-terrorism units. In his article
Algeria a Complex Ally in War Against al Qaeda, Riedel
gives a description of the Algerian counter-terrorism unit
DRS and its methods:
“(The) DRS is (…) known for its tactic of infiltrating
terrorist groups, creating “false flag” terrorists and trying
to control them.”, Riedel writes.“Rumors have associated
the DRS in the past with the Malian warlord Iyad Ag Ghali,
head of Ansar al Dine AQIM’s ally in Mali, and even with
Mukhtar Belmukhtar, the al-Qaeda terrorist who
engineered the attack on the natural gas plant.”
Here the CIA-vet admits that the Algerian intelligence
agency is in the business of “creating false flag terrorists”,
and that this agency is “rumored” to have ties to terrorist
attacks in North Africa. This statement is quite interesting,
as the very concept of “false flag” is usually labeled as
some outrageous conspiracy theory. We of course know
that false flag terrorism is standard modus operandi of
intelligence agencies all over the world. We are also
aware of the fact that the Brookings Institution is one of
the think tanks that warm to the idea of using false flag
attacks to attain public support for an invasion of Iran.

http://www.infowars.com/30-year-cia-vet-talks...
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#48903 Feb 9, 2013
JOEL wrote:
MUQ TYPED:
Allah is in Arabic what YHWH is in Hebrew and what God is in English.
JOEL - These are not the synonyms of the same being as evidenced in their different characteristics/teachings.
well i don't know what language yhwh is, but it most certainly is not Eevreet. and i know what YHVH means, and it don't mean All-h. and i do not think, yhwh is all german either. since that, would be pronounced: jhvh. and jehovah is not any where close to, what the tetragrammen means either. but in english, it would be RSHAS. but it gets really complex, in other languages.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#48904 Feb 9, 2013
JOEL wrote:
MARRIAGE NEED NOT BE SANCTIFIED THROUGH A RELIGIOUS CEREMONY:
1) Marriage or living together sans marriage as the case may be are mere psychological, emotional, physical and material contracts between partners and this union as a result forges a close link in consciousness and energy between them which can be strong or feeble depending on the attachment and commitment between the partners.
2) Infidelity is simply breach of trust in the relationship and is on par with say violating the terms and conditions of a business contract.
3) Infidelity indicates lack of concentricity in the being which means that the balance of forces in the being are not centered or stable enough and tend to scatter or be attracted to other sources of attraction other than one's own and to the object of one's alliance.
4) Exchange of wows in religious ceremonies do not sanctify a union between partners by which I mean there's nothing "divine" or "sacred" about it - it's simply bringing into the individual and collective consciousness of both the partners the need to stay loyal and to nurture each other till the end. It is an act of counselling. Nothing deeper should be attached to religious ceremonies.
rabbee: worldly ceremonies, are for vain showing. they do not, sanctify any marriage. the only question than need be truly answered, is do you or do you not want to spend the rest of eternity with me?

being married to the rules of any organization, not really true to G-D. shall only result in tragic consequences.

and if you get married, for money, power, or material wealth, or sex then it is just plain prostitution, with an alleged long term john commitment.
idgaf

Bedford, MA

#48905 Feb 9, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct that HISTORICALLY Israel has received enormous amounts of aid.
But CURRENTLY, this is no longer true for the factors already cited (Iraq, the development of the modern Israeli economy etc etc). Time has moved on, and Israels dependency has moved as well.
That past vs present is an important distinction.
So when people start discussing the issue of aid to Israel, often in my experience its either that they are unaware of the actual current facts, OR they are pushing a political agenda that supercedes any fact. In your case I assumed it was the former, not the latter.
I agree that our American geo-strategic concerns are more than oil. Our concerns are about global stability and terrorism. The middle east as a crossroads has always been an unstable place, and the delineation of post-colonial borders without regard to the natural peoples has exacerbated this instability. As a large nation-state I would hope that it is in our interest to do anything that fosters global stability. That includes allying with states with common interests in democracy and western values, as they are obvious partners with a common stake.
I think we are in violent agreement for the most part. I have no hidden agenda. These are serious questions that people tend not liking to answer. As for stability in the area, it comes back to American interests in the area which tend to be natural resources. I've been around long enough to understand that we don't do anything out of the goodness of our hearts or for our neighbors. There's always an interest. We can agree to have differing opinions. One question for you. You menationed somewhere back "Our". Are you dual citizenship? I'm assuming that you are an American-Jew and not a Jewish-American. America first, correct?
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48906 Feb 9, 2013
WAS ADAM A MUSLIM AS ALLEGED BY RABID MUSLIMS?

Anyone who surrenders to a higher or lower principle as the case may be cannot be a follower of Islam since surrender is an impersonal and a universal trait, while the surrender demanded by Islam is to be specifically directed to a being called Allah.

Islamic surrender, as a religion, specifically enjoins or indicates the surrender of a human being to a supraphysical being called Allah.

Thus, if a man surrenders to a higher principle he is not following Islam in the narrow religious sense since submission is a common feature of the human consciousness.

A believer may submit to a saint, to a prophet, to an animal, to a whore, to a friend, to an employer, to the absolute, to the higher self, to Hashem, Vishnu, Allah, Lucifer or to any supraphysical being.

To consider every surrendered believer a Muslim is misleading since the object of surrender in each case may be different.

Only the exclusive surrender of a person to Allah can specifically be called Islam.

All other forms of surrender are forms of surrender in a non-Islamic sense as Allah is not the object of submission.

So, to label Adam a Muslim is incorrect since he surrendered to his personal G-d, YHVH/Hashem that is not the same as say Muhammad surrendering to his personal God called Allah.

If it can be proven that Hashem is the same as Allah then and then only can it be concluded that Adam was a Muslim or a surrendered follower of the being, Allah.

However, by any yardstick, it can easily be shown that the characteristics and teachings of Hashem, the Hebrew deity, are very different from those of the Muslim deity, Allah.

So, Adam was not a Muslim but simply a surrendered soul who made the surrender of his psychic to a being other than Allah who he knew as Hashem or YHVH.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#48907 Feb 9, 2013
JOEL wrote:
WAS ADAM A MUSLIM AS ALLEGED BY RABID MUSLIMS?
Anyone who surrenders to a higher or lower principle as the case may be cannot be a follower of Islam since surrender is an impersonal and a universal trait, while the surrender demanded by Islam is to be specifically directed to a being called Allah.
Islamic surrender, as a religion, specifically enjoins or indicates the surrender of a human being to a supraphysical being called Allah.
Thus, if a man surrenders to a higher principle he is not following Islam in the narrow religious sense since submission is a common feature of the human consciousness.
A believer may submit to a saint, to a prophet, to an animal, to a whore, to a friend, to an employer, to the absolute, to the higher self, to Hashem, Vishnu, Allah, Lucifer or to any supraphysical being.
To consider every surrendered believer a Muslim is misleading since the object of surrender in each case may be different.
Only the exclusive surrender of a person to Allah can specifically be called Islam.
All other forms of surrender are forms of surrender in a non-Islamic sense as Allah is not the object of submission.
So, to label Adam a Muslim is incorrect since he surrendered to his personal G-d, YHVH/Hashem that is not the same as say Muhammad surrendering to his personal God called Allah.
If it can be proven that Hashem is the same as Allah then and then only can it be concluded that Adam was a Muslim or a surrendered follower of the being, Allah.
However, by any yardstick, it can easily be shown that the characteristics and teachings of Hashem, the Hebrew deity, are very different from those of the Muslim deity, Allah.
So, Adam was not a Muslim but simply a surrendered soul who made the surrender of his psychic to a being other than Allah who he knew as Hashem or YHVH.
rabbee: muhammed surrendered to an angel, not to G-D. and i know for a fact that not all angels, are as goodie goodie as you think. and there is even, a difference between Angels and angels. you should never assume, all angels represent G-D here in TheStory of Physical Creation. and assuming an angel is TheAngel Gabreeel after the fact, is an extreemly poor judgement.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48908 Feb 9, 2013
idgaf wrote:
<quoted text>
I think we are in violent agreement for the most part. I have no hidden agenda. These are serious questions that people tend not liking to answer. As for stability in the area, it comes back to American interests in the area which tend to be natural resources. I've been around long enough to understand that we don't do anything out of the goodness of our hearts or for our neighbors. There's always an interest. We can agree to have differing opinions. One question for you. You menationed somewhere back "Our". Are you dual citizenship? I'm assuming that you are an American-Jew and not a Jewish-American. America first, correct?
violent agreement? lol...thats pretty strong words there

I dont have dual citizenship - I am American, but as I Jew I sometimes refer to Jews (Judaism, unlike Christianity, is a tribal religion which refers to a people). I flit back and forth probably between our meaning American and our meaning Jewish.

I think the natural resource you are alluding to is really the quality "stability" so as to allow us to pursue natural resources in other places of the world. Israel has nothing "natural" to offer us Americans except perhaps Ahava beauty products, and various food items like Israeli couscous and humus. If we(Americans) were truely in search of natural resources we would blow off Israel entirely and pursue the Arabs with their oil.

How much snow did you get?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48909 Feb 9, 2013
JOEL wrote:
WAS ADAM A MUSLIM AS ALLEGED BY RABID MUSLIMS?
Anyone who surrenders to a higher or lower principle as the case may be cannot be a follower of Islam since surrender is an impersonal and a universal trait, while the surrender demanded by Islam is to be specifically directed to a being called Allah.
Islamic surrender, as a religion, specifically enjoins or indicates the surrender of a human being to a supraphysical being called Allah.
Thus, if a man surrenders to a higher principle he is not following Islam in the narrow religious sense since submission is a common feature of the human consciousness.
A believer may submit to a saint, to a prophet, to an animal, to a whore, to a friend, to an employer, to the absolute, to the higher self, to Hashem, Vishnu, Allah, Lucifer or to any supraphysical being.
To consider every surrendered believer a Muslim is misleading since the object of surrender in each case may be different.
Only the exclusive surrender of a person to Allah can specifically be called Islam.
All other forms of surrender are forms of surrender in a non-Islamic sense as Allah is not the object of submission.
So, to label Adam a Muslim is incorrect since he surrendered to his personal G-d, YHVH/Hashem that is not the same as say Muhammad surrendering to his personal God called Allah.
If it can be proven that Hashem is the same as Allah then and then only can it be concluded that Adam was a Muslim or a surrendered follower of the being, Allah.
However, by any yardstick, it can easily be shown that the characteristics and teachings of Hashem, the Hebrew deity, are very different from those of the Muslim deity, Allah.
So, Adam was not a Muslim but simply a surrendered soul who made the surrender of his psychic to a being other than Allah who he knew as Hashem or YHVH.
Adam is not considered the first Jew.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48910 Feb 9, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Adam is not considered the first Jew.
Then, who?

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#48914 Feb 9, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Then, who?
One of the twelve sons of Jacov.

Why such a question? You can rise your consciousness up to many levels and know whatsoever there is to know... and yet you don't such a simple thing?

cheers

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48915 Feb 9, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Then, who?
If by “Jew” you mean “Hebrew,” Abraham (ha-ivri) was the first Jew.

If by “Jew” you mean “of the tribe of Judah,” Judah was the first Jew.

If by Jew, you mean first to practice Judaism (i.e. accept the Torah) it would be the Hebrews who departed from Egypt.

If by “Jew” you mean “the first person in the Bible to be referred to as a Jew,” there is a reference to "Jews" in 2 Kings chapters 16–25.

MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#48916 Feb 9, 2013
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-56

Our prophet was not only a preacher. He was also an able administrator and a just ruler.

Those who have experience of administration know when to act tough and when to act with leniency. A King, Ruler and President knows which criminal to pardon and which to get executed. Those who do not have this experience may only speak in idealistic terms. Such idealistic persons are never able to administer any country or state with efficiency.

Beside so many “Swords” which we have mentioned earlier on this thread. He also had a sword of steel. When no other sword worked and the only solution was to wield the sword of steel, he used that also.

Any one who has read his biography knows that how reluctantly he had to use it. We present below, some of these cases, where prophet had to use the sword of steel.

A. The Case of : KA,AB BIN ASHRAF, THE JEW

Enemies of Islam have made this into a big scandal and accuse prophet of most cruelty in ordering secret killing of KA,AB BIN ASHRAF , the Jew living in Madina.

KA,AB BIN ASHRAF belonged to one of the Jewish tribe of Madina. He was a rich man and he was also a poet. When prophet reached Madina, he made a written pact with Jews of Madina of mutual respect and mutual defense against aggression from outside enemies.

Prophet was of the hope that these Jews being people with Torah and with concept of Monotheism and prophet hood and revelation, would recognize his credentials and would join Muslim nation of Madina. But things took a different course, these Jews were having a sort of superiority complex against Arabs and were of the opinion that Prophethood and revelation were the exclusive rights of Jews and no one outside 12 Jewish tribes would be made a prophet.

So they rejected the message of prophet and tried every thing in their power to bring the downfall of prophet and his followers. In Madina they had a “natural” ally in the form of Hypocrites and outside Madina, in the form of Pagan Arabs.

Arabs in general regarded Jews and their scholars as a learned lot and asked many questions from them regarding this “new prophet”. On these occasions instead of speaking the truth, Jews used to console those Pagan Arabs, saying that they were on a better path than the one towards which prophet was calling them.

In these tense circumstances and mutual hatred, the famous Battle of Badr took place. Hypocrites of Madina and Jews were more than confident, that Muslim army would be routed by the Makkah people and that will make the end of prophet and his mission.

But, due to grace of Allah, Muslims won a spectacular victory at Badr, which established them as a firm and emerging force in Arabia. Hypocrites and Jews of Madina felt extreme sadness at the victory of Muslims and their hatred increased many fold, and they were almost etching to pick up a fight with Prophet and Muslims.

They did not had to wait for long. The tribe of BANU QAINUQAH, were the first to break the treaty with prophet, and had to vacate Madina. This further added to the hatred of remaining two tribes that were living in Madina.

KA,AB BIN ASHRAF who in addition to being rich was also a very good poet. He went to Makkah for a visit, met the leaders of QURAISH there, consoled each and every of the clan of those who were killed at the battle of Badr and wrote their eulogies in the form of MARTHIAH.

(Contd.)
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#48917 Feb 9, 2013
When he came back, from Makkah, he started using his poetry against Islam and started lampooning prophet and his message. What more he started making fun of Muslim ladies in his poems. This was an act which indicated a very low and mean mentality. Prophet and Muslims kept quite for some time, hoping he would desist, but he took their silence as a mark of cowardice and fear from jews.

Prophet felt that if he openly killed KA,AB BIN ASHRAF it might result in open warfare with Jews, which was not in the best interest of either them or Muslims, as it would cause a lot of blood shed in Madina.

He therefore wanted KA,AB BIN ASHRAF to be executed silently. One day he asked that which of the Muslims would take care of KA,AB BIN ASHRAF as he has caused much suffering to Allah and His Messenger. Mohammad bin MASALLAMA, one young man of ANSARS, volunteered for the job.

He and some of his friends visited KA,AB BIN ASHRAF in the night, on the pretext of taking some loan from him and then pounced on him and killed him.

Jews were terrified when they learned about the killing of KA,AB BIN ASHRAF and refrained from actions of open hostilities against prophet and Muslims.

So by killing one person, prophet was able to save life of many Jews and Muslims in Madina.

That shows that “how careful and selective was prophet, even in his use of Sword of Steel”!!


http://www.scribd.com/doc/122191862

Source: Companions of Prophet: by Talib Hashmi

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#48919 Feb 9, 2013
You do push it MUQ, i feel almost inclined to start a series quoting from Margoliouths book.

Joel starts on Fritkov Kapra.

But you do gobble up that sword:

one young man of ANSARS, volunteered for the job.

He and some of his friends visited KA,AB BIN ASHRAF in the night, on the pretext of taking some loan from him and then pounced on him and killed him.

Jews were terrified when they learned about the killing of KA,AB BIN ASHRAF and refrained from actions of open hostilities against prophet and Muslims.

So by killing one person, prophet was able to save life of many Jews and Muslims in Madina.

That shows that “how careful and selective was prophet, even in his use of Sword of Steel”!!

---
frankly to most the point is lost.
Butcher a man in the night and destroy a kingdom en passant and claim the jewish synagoge, since that was the goal of the night-journey. Witnessed by an eyewttness!
The ansars later made a faux pas, took what was the prophets=Allahs (another definition that get's in the way)were desinherited but later reinstated under the condition that they could hold whatever they conquered.
Well they moved all the way to spain. And the war chapter 9 with the spoils, would be dearest to them.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#48920 Feb 9, 2013
KA.AB or KU6AB or KAÁBA all served as housing for...
The text might have been interpreted to be talking of one man, but it could very well mean the entire household!

You know what i said about the trend is islam the make the prophet appear more angelic.(that entire sword-series was started the proof that point. It's a bit like a Libanese Fatah-land drugcrazed teenager playing with and showing of his gun.)

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#48921 Feb 9, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
violent agreement? lol...thats pretty strong words there
I dont have dual citizenship - I am American, but as I Jew I sometimes refer to Jews (Judaism, unlike Christianity, is a tribal religion which refers to a people). I flit back and forth probably between our meaning American and our meaning Jewish.
I think the natural resource you are alluding to is really the quality "stability" so as to allow us to pursue natural resources in other places of the world. Israel has nothing "natural" to offer us Americans except perhaps Ahava beauty products, and various food items like Israeli couscous and humus. If we(Americans) were truely in search of natural resources we would blow off Israel entirely and pursue the Arabs with their oil.
How much snow did you get?
Allover the world Israel is involved in water-projects. And that includes the Arab world. So people can jump their own shadow.
it's all about saving water and getting it where it is needed.

The technology too.
Fruit, also from the areas that still goes as it always used to via israel.

---
I've concluded that if you do not have cars in the street it does not snow. We got ice-snow, horrible.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#48922 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
You do push it MUQ, i feel almost inclined to start a series quoting from Margoliouths book.
Joel starts on Fritkov Kapra.
But you do gobble up that sword:
one young man of ANSARS, volunteered for the job.
He and some of his friends visited KA,AB BIN ASHRAF in the night, on the pretext of taking some loan from him and then pounced on him and killed him.
Jews were terrified when they learned about the killing of KA,AB BIN ASHRAF and refrained from actions of open hostilities against prophet and Muslims.
So by killing one person, prophet was able to save life of many Jews and Muslims in Madina.
That shows that “how careful and selective was prophet, even in his use of Sword of Steel”!!
---
frankly to most the point is lost.
Butcher a man in the night and destroy a kingdom en passant and claim the jewish synagoge, since that was the goal of the night-journey. Witnessed by an eyewttness!
The ansars later made a faux pas, took what was the prophets=Allahs (another definition that get's in the way)were desinherited but later reinstated under the condition that they could hold whatever they conquered.
Well they moved all the way to spain. And the war chapter 9 with the spoils, would be dearest to them.
Are you threatening me?

Is quoting from Margoliuth book is a sort of "Anti Virus" for people like me?

It means you also consider him as a person with "strong Anti Muslim Bias"?

That just proves my case that he was not a True Scholar whose aim is to present the truth.

He was the most biased person that wrote on Islam and I do not find any excuse for such people....because they did it knowingly and after understanding the full message.

May be we can put him in the same league of ABDULLAH BIN UBAI, KAAB BIN ASHRAF OR ABU LAHAB (I think that he was most on the line of ABU LAHAB, whose story shall follow after a few episodes) Inshallah, i.e. Allah Willing
Eric

Schaumburg, IL

#48923 Feb 10, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>

Since when the question of their domicile came? Since they say Jew, so they should be welcome to live in Israel.
It was YOU who suggested that we take them in Makkah, I have no problem if they fulfill the Visa requirement for coming to Makkah.
It is you who should make up your mind.
You brought up the topic of domicile, not me. You said the Messianics should drop the word "Jew" from their name and live wherever they wanted, which would include Israel I assume. I only reminded you that they could not remain Messianic and live in Mecca. They would have to change their religious beliefs. That is not living anywhere they wanted. You are being hypocritical.

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