Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday 69,417
Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family. Full Story

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48696 Feb 6, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>

PS:
Am I being impossible? Try Joe or HUgh
Actually I dont see much difference. All of you are hypersensitive to correction.

Though at least you are capable of self-reflection.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48697 Feb 6, 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism#Hypoth...

Shamanic practices may originate as early as the Paleolithic, predating all organized religions,[81][82] and certainly as early as the Neolithic period.[82]

Early anthropologist studies theorise that shamanism developed as a magic practice to ensure a successful hunt or gathering of food. Evidence in caves and drawings on walls support indications that shamanism started during the Paleolithic era. One such picture featured a half-animal, with the face and legs of a man, with antlers and a tail of a stag.[83]

Archaeological evidence exists for Mesolithic shamanism.

The oldest know female Shaman grave in the world is located in the Czech Republic at Dolni Vestonice (National Geographic No 174 October 1988. Also In November 2008, researchers announced the discovery of a 12,000-year-old site in Israel that is perceived as one of the earliest known shaman burials. The elderly woman had been arranged on her side, with her legs apart and folded inward at the knee. Ten large stones were placed on the head, pelvis and arms. Among her unusual grave goods were 50 complete tortoise shells, a human foot, and certain body parts from animals such as a cow tail and eagle wings. Other animal remains came from a boar, leopard, and two martens. "It seems that the woman … was perceived as being in a close relationship with these animal spirits", researchers noted. The grave was one of at least 28 at the site, located in a cave in lower Galilee and belonging to the Natufian culture, but is said to be unlike any other among the Natufians or in the Paleolithic period.[84]

----------

81^ Jean Clottes. "Shamanism in Prehistory". Bradshaw foundation. Retrieved 2008-03-11.

82^ a b Karl J. Narr. "Prehistoric religion". Britannica online encyclopedia 2008. Retrieved 2008-03-28.

83^ Winkelman, Michael. Shamanism: a Biopsychosocial Paradigm of Consciousness and Healing. Santa Barbara, CA: Praeger, 2010. Print.

84^ "Earliest known shaman grave site found: study", reported by Reuters via Yahoo! News, November 4, 2008, archived. see.Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#48698 Feb 6, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
01. So you left the "debate" on Quranic Chapter 112 and started a "new" argument?
No. I ended it up.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text> Moses prophesized for some prophet to come after him or not? Who is that Prophet?
You stated he described the last prophet. He has never prophesized or described any last prophet.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text> Many prophets foretold about Messiah, it is not a strange title with Jews. There have been so many Messiahs in the past and one more will come.
It was not your Muhammad. It must be from the seed of David, he has to restore Jerusalem, and should appear at the end of the days. Those are but few things out of many that this messiah should accomplish and whom Muhammad failed miserably, hence he is disqualified for the being what previous scriptures foretold.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>I read Bible from cover to cover, if that is what you mean. Who can say that he "fully understood" any religious scripture? Only fools or those with "little knowledge" can say that.
That you don't fully understand what you read is pretty evident. What did I say was if you ever read and understood the Tanakh, seen the gross mistakes and lack of basic knowledge displayed by your posts.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text> 02. In those days, people were very "quick" to change their religion, no doubt. Just look at how Jesus got his first disciples.
One odd miracle here and there, and lo, they followed you to the end of world, why cant the same thing happen with our prophet?
How do you know that in those days people were very quick to change religion? The disciples of Jesus were Jews and they have never changed their religion. Quite stupid example you made, to support the lie of the story narrated in Hadith
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>This ZAID was "more than half convinced" with teachings of our prophet. He only wanted to test his patience and forbearing about which he had read in his Torah. So he devised a scheme to find a way to test it. And when he saw what he was looking for he declared his faith.
If Zaid was a Jewish he would have known yet that Muhammad was not the prophet foretold in Tanakh (see above why). So either the story was invented, or his convertion was forced. The test itself is pretty stupid and cannot determinate whether or not Muhammad was the prophet, or that prophet. Furthermore Zaid has not really been that offensive either.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>Prophets of God have very strong power to attract people, when we see in our days so many people becoming fans and supporters just be hearing one speech or shaking hands with some leaders, what we can say about prophets.
You don't have to be a prophet of god to attract people since any charismatic person has the power to, and they were/are not prophet of any god. Besides in the Tanakh there are several examples of how certain prophets were rejected or not listened by their folks.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text> It is not "every day" that new prophets come into the world. It is rarest of the rare occasions and blessed are people who see prophets and meet with them.
Actually from the Tanakh we know there have been a lot of prophets but just some were recorded. Those prophets in Tanakh came out pretty often, in any period, and only among the Jews. It just contradicts what you said. It was not that rare back then, in Israel.
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text> And then on the other hand, those who see prophets face to face and listen them speak and teach and…..still reject them, they are the worse humans, lost for ever.
Had Muhammad been the prophet of god and therefore able to attract people then he wouldn't have made so many wars.

Had Allah really existed and been powerful he wouldn't have allowed the death of thousands of people to convert into his religion.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#48699 Feb 6, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S hamanism#Hypotheses_on_origins
Shamanic practices may originate as early as the Paleolithic, predating all organized religions,[81][82] and certainly as early as the Neolithic period.[82]
Early anthropologist studies theorise that shamanism developed as a magic practice to ensure a successful hunt or gathering of food. Evidence in caves and drawings on walls support indications that shamanism started during the Paleolithic era. One such picture featured a half-animal, with the face and legs of a man, with antlers and a tail of a stag.[83]
Archaeological evidence exists for Mesolithic shamanism.
The oldest know female Shaman grave in the world is located in the Czech Republic at Dolni Vestonice (National Geographic No 174 October 1988. Also In November 2008, researchers announced the discovery of a 12,000-year-old site in Israel that is perceived as one of the earliest known shaman burials. The elderly woman had been arranged on her side, with her legs apart and folded inward at the knee. Ten large stones were placed on the head, pelvis and arms. Among her unusual grave goods were 50 complete tortoise shells, a human foot, and certain body parts from animals such as a cow tail and eagle wings. Other animal remains came from a boar, leopard, and two martens. "It seems that the woman … was perceived as being in a close relationship with these animal spirits", researchers noted. The grave was one of at least 28 at the site, located in a cave in lower Galilee and belonging to the Natufian culture, but is said to be unlike any other among the Natufians or in the Paleolithic period.[84]
----------
81^ Jean Clottes. "Shamanism in Prehistory". Bradshaw foundation. Retrieved 2008-03-11.
82^ a b Karl J. Narr. "Prehistoric religion". Britannica online encyclopedia 2008. Retrieved 2008-03-28.
83^ Winkelman, Michael. Shamanism: a Biopsychosocial Paradigm of Consciousness and Healing. Santa Barbara, CA: Praeger, 2010. Print.
84^ "Earliest known shaman grave site found: study", reported by Reuters via Yahoo! News, November 4, 2008, archived. see.Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
The main problem, and the reason why this will go over MUQ's head, is that he takes the Genesis story literally and believes Adam actually existed.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48700 Feb 6, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The main problem, and the reason why this will go over MUQ's head, is that he takes the Genesis story literally and believes Adam actually existed.
He also believes that Adam was a muslim.

Google Islam and shamanism. Its fascinating. There are many tribal peoples who combine both. Too many to list here.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48701 Feb 6, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The main problem, and the reason why this will go over MUQ's head, is that he takes the Genesis story literally and believes Adam actually existed.
One of the fundamental similarities of all shamanistic traditions is the use of altered states of consciousness to communicate with the spiritual realm. Sometimes this involves an intoxicant. Other times it involves a physical-mental activity such as drumming or dancing or chanting/singing. I think MUQ would be offended at this.
Eric

Bensenville, IL

#48702 Feb 6, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Makkah is OK, but you need a Visa to enter Makkah.
And that Visa is you declare with your mouth "ASHAD -U - AN LA ILAH A ILL A ALLAH MUHAMMAD AL RASOOL ALLAH"
i.e. "I bear witness that their is no deity to worship except Allah, and Mohammad is His Messenger".
messianic Jews, Normal Jews, Christians or people of any other faith can enter Makkah after fulfilling this Visa requirement.
Makkah is a sanctuary and safe place of Allah, it has to be kept pure and uncluttered. Should it not?
Thank you for verifying my point. The Messianics cannot live there because they do not believe that Muhammad is a Messenger.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#48704 Feb 6, 2013
JOEL wrote:
TACKLING MUSLIM RESISTANCE TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER:

2) Islam/Muslims will resist since they cherish abnormal beliefs and have dreams of converting the whole world to Islam as desired by that lunatic and pedophile, Muhammad.
But last year you stressed on the fact that he has never had a sexual intercourse with that child, Aisha.

Now, he is suddenly a pedophile?
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#48705 Feb 6, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Since your man is UNABLE to apply the definition you do so now and answer this, in what way is Jesus a "DELUSION figure"?
There is no evidence he was the son of god.

In that sense, he is a delusion.

Unless you have some evidence of who he was.

Do you?
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#48706 Feb 6, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
While at it explain your man's/Frijoles' words i.e. "I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus."
Having explained it, integrate it into your previous assignment.
I believe, that like me, Frijoles believes that a man named Jesus existed, but that we have no evidence he was the son of god.

But no point in your asking me to expalain what Frijoles is saying to you.

You and I are now having our own conversation.

Call it "pillowtalk."

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48707 Feb 6, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe, that like me, Frijoles believes that a man named Jesus existed, but that we have no evidence he was the son of god.
But no point in your asking me to expalain what Frijoles is saying to you.
You and I are now having our own conversation.
Call it "pillowtalk."
My position is that I dont know if a man named Jesus existed or not, primarily because I havent made it a habit to read much of what modern science or modern history has to say on the issue. However, I have no chip on my shoulder to doubt such a possibility either.

A few months ago, a recognized popular author and Rabbi named Shmuely Boteach published a book called Kosher Jesus. I never read it, so I cant comment on how scholarly it is, but his view of the matter is that Jews should accept and embrace the notion that Jesus as man existed, and what he taught was barely concealed Judaism of the time. Therefore we Jews should be proud of Jesus, and steal him back (the man, not the messiah) from the Christians.

Its an intriguing line of thought, and the book was condemned by more than a few prominent orthodox Jews that couldnt get past the title.

Huggy of course also missed the boat on Boteach and considers him a Messianic - since he obviously never read past the title either..
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48708 Feb 6, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>

But last year you stressed on the fact that he has never had a sexual intercourse with that child, Aisha.

Now, he is suddenly a pedophile?
Hi!

Yes, I've changed my view on Muhammad and just about everything.

Maybe at times I am overreacting after feeling let down and betrayed by my master.

I was defending these bastards - the prophets/saints - and protecting them from defamation through my unwillingness to admit to all their deficiencies despite the great supraphysical powers they commanded but now the deliberately imposed blinkers are off and I am willing to denounce them.

From this perspective, I strongly suspect - a suspicion that is not new to me - that Krishna had physical relations with dozens of his female disciples since the raas leela enacted in Vrindavan was a yoga on the overmental down to the gross physical planes and so on...

I am even willing to call my ex-master horrible names after being subjected to the most horrific force attacks a couple of months ago after coming into direct contact with the vital being, Lam, that was invoked by the ace Illuminati occultist Aleister Crowley and a few others who activated a spatio-temporal portal with the vital world to bring down in even greater numbers the HVPs....

The way I suffered..... and despite calling on my master to save me, no help came my way and then when the attacks became life-threatening - I began fainting and mumbling to myself, going blind, began trembling uncontrollably, began vomiting blood on a repeated basis and could perceive my life energies being wilfully drained out of my body through the heart center by the vital being who had entered me and I could see it -.....To save myself from sure death I had to do something so drastic to shake off the being and only after indulging in that most horrible act did the attack recede as the powerful vital being was satisfied with my action that was pleasant to it....

I don't want to talk abut it....

I've quit the yoga ever since and have broken all contact with the ashram and my master.

However, the yogic experiences are continuing sponatenously till now without any effort being made by me....the experiences are still coming since the supramental mantra has taken deep root in my being.

Best Regards.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48709 Feb 6, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>

And that Visa is you declare with your mouth "ASHAD -U - AN LA ILAH A ILL A ALLAH MUHAMMAD AL RASOOL ALLAH"
Petty beings like Allah, YHVH, Yama and others suffer from narcissistic personality disorder and inflated egoism and as such they want to be worshipped and adulated or else they rant and abuse and get down to cursing the "infidels", heretics and apostates.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48710 Feb 6, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>

Makkah is a sanctuary and safe place of Allah, it has to be kept pure and uncluttered.
So, why couldn't the petty being, Allah, protect Mecca and the Kaaba with its phallic stone from being attacked and destroyed on many occasions in the past?

LOL.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48711 Feb 6, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>

The OLDEST religion in the world is what was practised by Adam the first human on earth and it was Islam, nothing else.
So, the offspring of Adam and Eve procreated incestuously to propagate the human race?

Are you aware of the grave dangers involved in incest involving intimate relations like brothers and sisters?

Why don't you marry your own sister and produce a baby with her just as the progeny of Adam and Eve did by marrying and procreating among themselves?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#48712 Feb 6, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
My position is that I dont know if a man named Jesus existed or not, primarily because I havent made it a habit to read much of what modern science or modern history has to say on the issue. However, I have no chip on my shoulder to doubt such a possibility either.
A few months ago, a recognized popular author and Rabbi named Shmuely Boteach published a book called Kosher Jesus. I never read it, so I cant comment on how scholarly it is, but his view of the matter is that Jews should accept and embrace the notion that Jesus as man existed, and what he taught was barely concealed Judaism of the time. Therefore we Jews should be proud of Jesus, and steal him back (the man, not the messiah) from the Christians.
Its an intriguing line of thought, and the book was condemned by more than a few prominent orthodox Jews that couldnt get past the title.
Huggy of course also missed the boat on Boteach and considers him a Messianic - since he obviously never read past the title either..
Interesting perspective.

I believe that regardless of whether Jesus existed as a real person or as just a highly exaggerated folklore, his teachings were neither unique nor groundbreaking. His moral teachings were mundane, common sense stuff that any humanist would already embrace.

And even at that, today's so-called christians are poor examples of followers of this person/folklore since their focus is more on all the baggage that religion has built up around him rather than focusing on the core/basic humanistic teachings.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48713 Feb 6, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting perspective.
I believe that regardless of whether Jesus existed as a real person or as just a highly exaggerated folklore, his teachings were neither unique nor groundbreaking. His moral teachings were mundane, common sense stuff that any humanist would already embrace..
In other words, there is something to Homer Simpson after all (assuming one is intellectually courageous enough to separate the man from the mystical legend)
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>And even at that, today's so-called christians are poor examples of followers of this person/folklore since their focus is more on all the baggage that religion has built up around him rather than focusing on the core/basic humanistic teachings.
I think there may be humanistic denominations of Christianity such as the Humanistic Society of Friends, a subgroup of the Quakers.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#48714 Feb 6, 2013
MUQ wrote:
First HI was with smiles and second HI when Smile was wiped off the face?
So, what?

I am not used to dealing with scum like you.

In South Mumbai where I live, a guy like you who's uncultured, unintelligent, unclassy, impoverished, fanatical and a person with the personality of a slum dweller would be looked down upon as a servant or menial help.

To be brutally frank, a low class character like you is not fit to polish my shoes.

How did a dunce like you manage to get admitted to the Roorkee University for a degree course in engineering when the entrance exam is next only to the IIT JEE in terms of difficulty and it goes without saying that your foundation in Math, Physics and Chemistry is extremely weak and unfit for engineering. I wonder how you got in.

Roorkee is now under the IIT umbrella.

Besides, your religious bigotry has I guess secured you an administrative job in Saudi Arabia.

If you wish to talk with me, introduce something intelligent or thought-provoking, otherwise keep debating with unintelligent, unclassy, impoverished, crude and fanatical posters like Hugh, Frijoles, Eric and Buford.

Ok, then, get it?
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#48715 Feb 6, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
My position is that I dont know if a man named Jesus existed or not, primarily because I havent made it a habit to read much of what modern science or modern history has to say on the issue. However, I have no chip on my shoulder to doubt such a possibility either.
A few months ago, a recognized popular author and Rabbi named Shmuely Boteach published a book called Kosher Jesus. I never read it, so I cant comment on how scholarly it is, but his view of the matter is that Jews should accept and embrace the notion that Jesus as man existed, and what he taught was barely concealed Judaism of the time. Therefore we Jews should be proud of Jesus, and steal him back (the man, not the messiah) from the Christians.
Its an intriguing line of thought, and the book was condemned by more than a few prominent orthodox Jews that couldnt get past the title.
Huggy of course also missed the boat on Boteach and considers him a Messianic - since he obviously never read past the title either..
Well....some of my best friends are Jewish :)).....and they tend to say the believe JC existed and was sort of mystic or some such. Not that it's up for a vote.

Other than stating he was the son of god, I guess he was a good Jew? Or was that even enough to make him not Jewish?

Huggy wrote: "While at it explain your man's/Frijoles' words i.e. "I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus."

I didn't check the quote and took him at his word. So took that to mean you did acknowledge JC's existence.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#48717 Feb 6, 2013
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting perspective.
I believe that regardless of whether Jesus existed as a real person or as just a highly exaggerated folklore, his teachings were neither unique nor groundbreaking. His moral teachings were mundane, common sense stuff that any humanist would already embrace.
Is anything new? Was it ever? One could say the same of Shakespeare. Some say it better than others, not that I'm a biblical scholar.

Personally, I like the Sermon on the Mount/The Beatitudes/Golden Rule etc.

Good teaching that most of use could use reinforcing in.

the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.(5:3)
those who mourn: for they will be comforted.(5:4)
the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.(5:5)
they who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be satisfied.(5:6)
the merciful: for they will be shown mercy.(5:7)
the pure in heart: for they shall see God.(5:8)
the peacemakers: for they shall be called children of God.(5:9)
those who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
And even at that, today's so-called christians are poor examples of followers of this person/folklore since their focus is more on all the baggage that religion has built up around him rather than focusing on the core/basic humanistic teachings.
True for most of them, but not all.

Some are better than others. More sincere. And many are hypocrites.

In other words...even if one doesn't think JC was the son of god, doing things his way.....well, one could do worse.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Silver City Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
WNMU students graduate from Police Academy (Jun '10) Sat Really 8
To ban or not to ban - the future of plastic ba... Sat Really 12
Black Range Artist plan plein air show Sep 18 I love the southwest 1
Grant Co.---rotten corner of NM (Sep '11) Sep 17 Insect Trust 30
Dr. Twana Sparks (Dec '09) Sep 11 FEDUPw-dumb-mean-... 45
Their view: No clear gain in dispute over Falkl... (Mar '10) Sep 7 Tony 608
Mimbres Valley woman still missing Sep 5 Raquel Placencio 7
•••

Flash Flood Watch for Grant County was issued at September 22 at 4:24AM MDT

•••
•••
•••

Silver City Jobs

•••
•••
•••

Silver City People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Silver City News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Silver City
•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••