Missouri Proposition B: The Puppy Mil...

Missouri Proposition B: The Puppy Mill Bill

Created by CitizenTopix on Oct 7, 2010

6,421 votes

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Matt

Kirksville, MO

#415 Oct 9, 2010
If it is such a wonderful thing, why doesn't HSUS, shelters, rescues, catteries have to follow it?
on staff

United States

#416 Oct 9, 2010
Most shelters have in house veterinarians and they aren't required to only have so many dogs because they are not breeding them.

This only applies to puppy mills that are breeding dogs to sell. It doesn't apply to a pet owner.
HATES ECO-TERRORISTS

Ozark, MO

#417 Oct 9, 2010
Prop Owner wrote:
<quoted text>
What basic right? You're against people being responsible for their pets? What do you do when your dog is sick or injured, let it lie around in pain or just wait for it to die miserably or do you just drop it off in the woods? You make me sick. Having a pet is a privilege not a right...and your kind of thinking is why a law like this is even necessary.
LOLOLOLOL... Your such a dumbfuck dude... It's your kind that make the perfect poster children for an ECO-TERRORIST. Go eat your seaweed burger and shut the fuck up. Can you dumbshits not see you are out numbered on here and almost everywhere except the HSUS forums and blogs. Oh, I forgot I read earlier about HSUS paying .75 per post or something like that. Maybe you can go post there where you can feel like somebody that matters, or do you lose the .75 for posting on inner organization forums and blogs?
WeThePeople

Fort Worth, TX

#419 Oct 9, 2010
Prop Owner wrote:
<quoted text>
What basic right? You're against people being responsible for their pets? What do you do when your dog is sick or injured, let it lie around in pain or just wait for it to die miserably or do you just drop it off in the woods? You make me sick. Having a pet is a privilege not a right...and your kind of thinking is why a law like this is even necessary.
Perhaps they provide comfort care until the dog's own immune system has healed itself rather than speeding down the road to the vet only to be told 'he probably has some kind of infection going on' sold broad spectrum antibiotics, which the dog is never given the full course of anyway.

It isn't your decision to make for them. You aren't superior to anyone. The real experts are the people up to their elbows in animal husbandry everyday and the people who know their own dog(s). I have heard more outrageous advice from veterinarians than I care to remember. So don't continue parroting your ignorance based drivel and expect no one to refute every last inane word you type.
CalebDVM

Kirksville, MO

#420 Oct 9, 2010
There is this big myth that there are no shutdowns. I've been involved in several. I've had clients that I myself have had to call the state about and we have shut them down. The licensed folks are annually inspected by a fed, state, AKC if they reg. through them and me. That is 4 inspections. I am in constant contact with them 24/7. The majority of my kennel clients are retiring their bitches a 7 yrs of age and we connect them with a rescue.My assoc. and I do routine dentals on all adults. We do the euthanasias and the wife is the one who brings them in because the husband can't stand to watch. The last one the wife stood there and cried. I asked if she wanted me to dispose and she said no we have a special place where we bury them. We inspect all of the pups prior to sale. The problems that I see and it is growing is people not knowing squat about how to take care of a puppy. They feed the pup off the table, their kids twist the legs, then we want to blame the breeder. I even had a gal call from N.Y. Somethin wrong with this pup it just looks at me. What is it supposed to do, I asked? I don't know? I've never had one before! The mill bit has become the new social cool "in" thing for some. I've seen more disgusting horrible rescues and no kill shelters than bad kennels. Prop B not including them is what really kills the whole deal. Doesn't look good folks. They taut the big moral thing but don't want to live by it either. They know that they can't. Thus there is the true story. Do the math folks. Look at HSUS/PETA track record. Next up will be your farmer. You think food costs are high now and vet bills are high? You are about to get a real education.
Norton

Kansas City, MO

#421 Oct 9, 2010
The Eagle8 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll be voting NO to this amendment.
This amendment will hinder the legitimate
breeders and do nothing to the illegal
"puppy mills".
We do not need another amendment; the laws
that are already in place should be enforced.
This amendment is strongly supported by
interests outside of Missouri; you gotta
wonder why...
I'm glad you posted this. I have been mulling this over and wasn't sure about it. Thanks, it helped a lot.
Sheryl

Kirksville, MO

#422 Oct 9, 2010
Our USDA inspector is working with us. We have 150 dogs. My sister and brother are now licensed and each will take 50 dogs. We work as a family to support our kids. We hire outside help from town. Our dogs receive better care than most city dogs. They aren't fed crap off the table and we are with them 24/7. Our kids are in here working and learning responsibility while those animal rights kids sniff their gluff and eat their ADHD pills. My personal opinion to HSUS is: up yours!
Dogs_Arent_Lives tock

United States

#423 Oct 9, 2010
Matt wrote:
Unconstitutional and unethical
How do you make someone give away their dog or euthanize it?
How do you make someone take their dog to the vet?
Is the state going to pay for the annual exam? That is taking away a basic right.
How long will it be before HSUS tries to go after the individual dog owner? Give them a taste of power and they won't stop here folks. Look at their track record in the other states. Next up your American Farmer.
State and city governments with BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) banning pits and/or other breeds are making many people give away their dog or have it euthanized; often not even giving them the prior option. The current law already requires a vet visit a licensed breeding facility annually. Prop B requires the vet actually do a hands-on evaluation of each dog and not just a walk through. Seems reasonable to me. If a vet is going to go to a facility s/he should actually check the animals there; I would think the breeders would want this done since they care so much about their dogs, right? Oh, I forgot, dog farmers, unlike pig, chicken and cattle farmers, are hypocrites who treat the parent dogs as livestock and sell their offspring as "cherished family pets"---are dogs livestock or pets? They can't have it both ways. Why worry about vet treatment when you can replace a breeder dog cheaper than providing vet care--that's the dog farmers' mentality.
Dogs_Arent_Lives tock

United States

#424 Oct 9, 2010
Norton wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm glad you posted this. I have been mulling this over and wasn't sure about it. Thanks, it helped a lot.
You should know the current laws (ACFA) allow dogs to be caged their entire lives--they never have to be let out of the cage despite exercise requirements which the opposition fails to mention are met by housing dogs together in a cage--as long as each dog has the minimum space required if housed separately (6" taller, longer, wider than the dog). If a dog is housed alone "exercise" is met by giving it double the min space--so if a dog is put into an enclosure 12" taller, longer wider than itself the requirement for "exercise" is met. UNDER CURRENT LAW IT IS LEGAL FOR DOGS TO BE CAGED THEIR ENTIRE LIVES--doesn't sound too humane to me. Additionally, under current law, breeders can kill their dogs however they want when they're through using them up--shooting; clubbing (as one of the dirty dozen planned to do), drowning--Prop B would require the dogs be euthanized humanely by a vet.

As for all the "outside" groups being in support of this, yes, I live in MO but care about the animals in other states; there's nothing unusual about that. And since MO is providing at least 1/3 of all the puppies to stores across the nation people in other states are affected by what goes on in MO mills. The opposition has plenty of "outsiders" involved as well including Michael Glass from APRI in PA and Rob Heard from APRI in IA.

I also find it extremely hypocritical that those now claiming the current laws (ACFA) are so wonderful fought against passage of such. Yes, MOFED did not want ACFA to pass; they also fought against the ban on cockfighting; stricter laws on dog fighting; requiring people to have their pets vaccinated against rabies by a licensed vet; and were against the "pet friendly" license plates in MO that fund spay/neuter programs. And most recently, and again, hypocritically, in the 2010 legislative session MOFED fought against the removal of the $500 licensing fee cap (commercial breeders pay $100 plus $1 for every dog sold up to $500)and when the Dept of Ag requested the cap be removed so they could get more $ to hire more inspectors, as the opposition claims is the answer, MOFED fought against it and the measure failed. So the same people who say the answer is to give the state more $ to enforce current law fought against the passage of the current law (unsuccessfully) and fought against giving the dept of ag more $(successfully)---can you say HYPOCRITES?
enlighten yourself

United States

#425 Oct 9, 2010
Dollie2 wrote:
If your dad runs a reputable kennel, he

should HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE BILL!!!!!!!!!!
Have you ever heard of George Sorris??? Do you know what a Vegan is?? If you are so unenlightened please read up on the people behind this bill. They care nothing about cats or dogs they are trying to create a new society of non meat eaters and not by choice. You will no longer be able to afford to eat meat. They have been working on this for awhile. Ask yourself why hamburger went from 69 cents a pound to one dollar and eighty nine cents in one year. This has nothing to do with cute little hurt animals. Quite being an idiot and ask the hard questions like who is behind a bill.
TYLER SAMPLE

Chicago, IL

#426 Oct 10, 2010
Save the animals!!! I'd fight for them over Negros any day!!!
WeThePeople

Fort Worth, TX

#427 Oct 10, 2010
CalebDVM wrote:
There is this big myth that there are no shutdowns. I've been involved in several. I've had clients that I myself have had to call the state about and we have shut them down. The licensed folks are annually inspected by a fed, state, AKC if they reg. through them and me. That is 4 inspections. I am in constant contact with them 24/7. The majority of my kennel clients are retiring their bitches a 7 yrs of age and we connect them with a rescue.My assoc. and I do routine dentals on all adults. We do the euthanasias and the wife is the one who brings them in because the husband can't stand to watch. The last one the wife stood there and cried. I asked if she wanted me to dispose and she said no we have a special place where we bury them. We inspect all of the pups prior to sale. The problems that I see and it is growing is people not knowing squat about how to take care of a puppy. They feed the pup off the table, their kids twist the legs, then we want to blame the breeder. I even had a gal call from N.Y. Somethin wrong with this pup it just looks at me. What is it supposed to do, I asked? I don't know? I've never had one before! The mill bit has become the new social cool "in" thing for some. I've seen more disgusting horrible rescues and no kill shelters than bad kennels. Prop B not including them is what really kills the whole deal. Doesn't look good folks. They taut the big moral thing but don't want to live by it either. They know that they can't. Thus there is the true story. Do the math folks. Look at HSUS/PETA track record. Next up will be your farmer. You think food costs are high now and vet bills are high? You are about to get a real education.
Not all dogs are the same. The man made freak dogs, the ones that would never exists in nature, the tiny neurotic hypoglycemic dogs have different needs than that of German Shepherds, Black and Tan Coonhounds, Samoyeds, etc. A strong healthy dog could easily produce a healthy litter of puppies at age 9 or even 10. I know because I witnessed it as a kid. And no one forced her to breed. Back then nobody cleaned their dog's teeth yet somehow they lived happily to a ripe old age.

Something very wrong is going on in this country. When pet owners refer to themselves as mommy and daddy, spend hundreds to thousands per year on needless pills, poison, and gadgets, breeders are spit on literally or figuratively, fined for petty 'infractions' that normal pet owners wouldn't bat an eye at in their own dog's living conditions, and expected to perform their work for free, well, at some point you've got to step back shake your head and get some perspective.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#428 Oct 10, 2010
Life in the United States today, people would rather you abort a human than mistreat a dog.
jake2

Columbia, MO

#429 Oct 10, 2010
This entire thing is getting stupid!!
The law, if it passes, and I hope it does, dosent even apply to most of you--You have 10 dogs "running free" on your farm, breeding where and when they please, You spout off about Dogs should not be confined--and your neighbors have to run then out of our pastures, and away from our chicken pens!
Because they're hungry!!
Perhaps we need to pass a few more laws--
And--how come noone will name a vet?
voteno

United States

#430 Oct 10, 2010
Maybe some of the veterinary docs on here can help me, forgive me I am not a breeder, but a puppy is a dog able to care with out the mother up to age one? And an adult dog that gives birth whelps, and they are considered whelps until able to care for themselves without the mother? The slang phrase puppy mill doesn't even reference or have anything to do with treatment or care of animals, so basically this is just one more of my many reasons to show and prove HSUSisBS!!!!!!
voteno

United States

#431 Oct 10, 2010
Matt wrote:
We will pass a law giving us the right to inspect each dog owners home. If we don't think that you are doing a good enough job we will take your dog and give it to someone else.
They do this in Ohio. If u have a history of child abuse you can't have a pet, but u can have all the kids you want!!!!!!
lost

Lincoln, NE

#432 Oct 10, 2010
I was reading the Bill or Act and some quick questions came to mind (what mind)
Numberrs relate to the paragraphs where I read the statements.
2 prohibit the cruel and inhumane treatment of dogs in puppy mills
Q. it states dogs in this para. But states domesticated animals later
2 large-scale dog breeding operations
Q. did I read they are talking about 50 dogs???? See # 4
3 more than ten female covered dogs
Q Lets see Ö allowed 50 dogs, only allowed 10 female dogs, boy is she going to be happy. Thatís one boy dog for each female dog.
3 and selling any offspring for use as a pet
Q. but your honor, I am not selling them as pets. They are guard dogs, you know -working dogs
4 no person may have custody of more than fifty covered dogs
5.4 solid floor; is not stacked or otherwise placed on top of or below another animalís enclosure
Q. are they going to do this for poultry farms also
5.4 does not fall below 45 degrees Fahrenheit, or rise above 85 degrees Fahrenheit
Q. Does this mean they are requiring A/C for the dogs. I wish they would require it for people also.
5.5 and at least 30 square feet of indoor floor space per each dog for dogs 35 inches and longer
Q. so if you have 50 large dogs then you will need 1500 SF of inside area
5.6 provides each dog at least twice the square footage of the indoor floor space provided to that dog.
Q. so if you have 50 large dogs then you will need 3000 SF of outside play area
5.9 ĒPetĒ means any domesticated animal normally maintained in or near the household of the owner thereof
Q. so for a dairy farmer this could mean his cows (what distance is NEAR)

Didnít have time to scrutinize it further

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#433 Oct 10, 2010
I find it interesting that LOCAL USHS says this has nothing to do with agriculture and yet continues to insult farmers with comments like "Hillbilly" and "Inbred".

It has EVERYTHING to do with agriculture! And if they knew ANYTHING about farmers they'd know that the vast majority of farm animals get better healthcare than the average US citizen.

And a farmer spends MORE time tending their animals than the average person works at a regular job, and for less money.

These people are brainwashed or living in ignorance.
susieq

Collinsville, IL

#434 Oct 10, 2010
You should be aware as you're reading this that the big agricultural operations have hired lobbyists to post on these forums. They want to make damn sure that if they want to drag a sick, suffering half grown calf to the killing floor, skin it and grind it up while it is still alive and conscious that they have the "right" to do that and that nothing should stand in the way. They want to make sure that the big chicken operations like the one that produced the eggs that made a lot of people sick are not interfered with by the government.
That's where all of these comments are coming from about how this bill will "hurt farmers". They see any move toward animal protection as a threat.
If you read the forum on the same subject that the Riverfront Times ran a while back, you will see that some of these folks were outed on that forum as being paid by the Ag lobbies.
Take their hundreds of comments with a grain of salt, knowing that they are paid to post.
Top Shelf

Chillicothe, MO

#435 Oct 10, 2010
Greene wrote:
And if they knew ANYTHING about farmers they'd know that the vast majority of farm animals get better healthcare than the average US citizen.
Now that is a sad comment when National healthcare costs are projected for 2012 to be 17.7% of GDP (roughly $3.1 trillion in 2012).

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