Pushing Devens as 352nd town
#1 Jan 28, 2011
Devens could be a beautiful town...too bad all the redtape and backroom deals that it takes to get something right done in MA.
#2 Jan 29, 2011
"For Now State Police Right Fit For Devens"
In my opinion what may be missing from this article on the 1.3 Million Dollar figure that Mr. Cappucci may have mentioned for the State Police to Police Devens, is that after all the potential subsidies, Grants, MOU's, from the State and maybe the Federal Government Mass Development may receive. I beleive once you take that into total consideration the conjectural total cost may be well under $500,000 a year, a good difference from the 1.3 Milllion Dollars mentioned in the article.
If I recall the decision to have the State Police provide the Police Serivice at Devens was not made over night, or without input from the major laureates of the Police,Legal,Justice,
Governmental Community. Plus the 'multi jurisdictional, and the unique Public Safety needs of Devens' was a significant factor on deciding the State Police to Police Devens if I remember from past articles in the Newspapers.
If Devens should become its own Municipality, in my opinion the State may still assist in the Law Enforcement equation until they could finacially support their own Police Department. Plus with the unique Public Safety needs of Devens their potentially may always have to be a small State Police presence at Devens, even if Devens should have their own Municipal Police force in the future, just an opinion.
#3 Jan 30, 2011
No reason for MSP to be there. They do cost $1.3 million which is money coming from Mass Development budget. When they took over the bid years ago they came in with a low ball unrealistic figure and ballooned to a staff of 12 or 13 troopers. More than Shirley or Harvard PD and almost as much as Ayer PD. State troopers there earn a base salary of almost $100K a year and 11 troopers receive a monthly stipend of $900 each to drive to work. The Policing should be done by the local PDs until it becomes its own town.
#4 Jan 30, 2011
Again local Police are not Multi, or State Wide jurisdictional, plus two different County's Middlesex and Worcester, in Devens. Mass Development is not an Incorporated Municipality can we agree? may not be able to grant Chap 41 Sec 98 Powers. My opinion reading Chap 498 which created Mass Develop Devens, plus in reviewing it. Chap 498 may grant only authority to contract out for Police Service's not Grant Local Police Powers under Chap 41 Sec 98, or MSP Chap 22C, State Wide Jurisdiction. Plus this unique jurisdictional factor leaves only the State Police until Devens becomes its own Town. Maybe just my cursory understanding? This may have potentially already been conferenced out with the Chief Justice of the Massachusetts Court System in 1995, or 1996?
Its my understanding one of the many reasons MSP was picked to Police Devens may be for this reason and the Courts may have agreed to this unique jurisdictional doctrine, until Devens becomes its own Town is my understanding. Thats just one of the many reasons for the MSP to be there. Plus the local police departments beside the fore mentioned jurisdictional issue may not have been able provide all the unique Police Services that are institutionalized to Devens, or what they potentially needed in their original RFP, in 1995.
Again after you take back all the conjectural monetary arrangements, plus the regular State Police Budget may pay for more then half the Troopers stationed their? Leaving Mass Development conjecturally paying less then $500,000, the additional financial numbers may also come from trades off on how much Mass Develop charges the MSP for all the rental space, land, the MSP uses on Devens.
Reference their salary and benefits thats a Contractual issue between MSP and the State in my opinion. I hope we can agree that if Devens should have their own Police Department some day. That they would have to pay benefits and salary competitive with the local area?
When you figure in pay, benefits, details,overtime, Quinn Bill, with local Police Departments in the area its really not a super significant difference. Especially if more then half their budget is paid by the main State Police Budget, conjecturally for the contingent at Devens.
#5 Jan 30, 2011
Devens can contract out police services and 41/98 would not have anything to do with it. I'm no expert but i don't see any exclusivity of jurisdiction solely to SP. The salary difference is huge gap. No new officers would get Quinn Bill, officers would be started at lower wages as well,nowhere as high as a top step trooper with Master's Degrees stationed there. MSP did a wonderful job while they were there but they were never meant to be there forever and its time to pass the torch to the local towns and make the next step towards the transition. By MSP holding on it shows that Mass Development a quasi-state agency is not ready to make the transition. Let's not beat around the bush, the MSP did not outbid the towns it was state politics at its best.
#6 Jan 31, 2011
Correct Devens may presently 'contract out'for Police Services,(not grant police powers?) and what local Police Department is multi jurisdictional, or has State wide authority?
Plus maybe a significant amount of potential legal unknowns with two Sheriffs Departments? Devens you hit it right a quasi State Authority, again not a Municipality. Present Mutual Aid pact may be with State Police maybe not Mass Develop a lot of legal issues, and legal contracts would potentially have to be redrawn, major point Mass Develop is not an incorporated Municipality.
Plus local Towns may have walked away from Devens when the original Fort closed (Orig Town Boundrys maybe negated?), if I remember? Now after the fact they may have an interest that they may see a possible monetary gain? Plus original police contract was fully digested and it was issued to the State Police for many valued reasons.
A lot of unknowns with the pay scale, benefits, when the that time may comes? My opinion pass the torch when Devens becomes its own Municipality, and when they have their own Police Department.
Other then that I guess we 'just agree to disagree'.
#7 Feb 1, 2011
Why does the State Police want this so much? MSP is down over 400 troopers , these troopers can be stationed where they are needed, not provide municipal police services like they are doing at Devens. Let the towns handle the policing there. The problem is that Devens is a GOOD GIG for the staties and God forbid someone take it away from the few select guys there.
#8 Feb 1, 2011
"Correct Devens may presently 'contract out'for Police Services,(not grant police powers?) and what local Police Department is multi jurisdictional, or has State wide authority?"
Argument can be made that MSP has no police powers there either. It is not at all true. Chapter 498 is enacted as state law and clearly states The Commission shall have the right to establish a department or contract for services for inspections relating to public health, public safety and inspection services, or may designate the division of inspection in the department of public safety or the department of public health to provide said services. These were all looked at when Devens started out and cleared by lawyers at AG Office.
"Plus maybe a significant amount of potential legal unknowns with two Sheriffs Departments? "
Sheriffs have limited Ch90 power and cannot be issued citation books. Can only arrest for breach of peace therefore cannot provide adequate police services. Again s MSP scare tactic when someone says local police should take over some services MSP uses the Sheriff to scare. Ain't happening.
"Present Mutual Aid pact may be with State Police maybe not Mass Develop a lot of legal issues, and legal contracts would potentially have to be redrawn, major point Mass Develop is not an incorporated Municipality."
Municipal police mutual aids are covered under 41/99 but there are also laws on the books for forming a municipal police district under chapter 41. Three towns can form the district to police Devens. You are looking too much into this , like I said the lawyers for Mass Develop , AG Office and DA looked at these issues. As far as the courts go, doesn't MSP Devens now go to both courts. If a crime happens on the Harvard/Lancaster side does Devens go to Ayer District Court? IF they do how can that happen? Is it an agreement between the DAs, if it is then it would pass on to the local Pds as well.
Another way to squander jurisdictional issues is all three towns form an agreement and I believe Harvard is a Cemlec community which means their officers have powers throughout Worcester County and Cemlec is expanding in Middlesex County as well.
#9 Feb 1, 2011
(b) contract for police services with one or more of the Town's police, state police or the military police, provided that the police appointed or employed by the Bank shall have within the borders of Devens all the powers of police officers and constables of the towns of the Commonwealth;
#10 Feb 1, 2011
We can continue I guess debating this until the moon come's over the mountain. Conjecturally any surrounding Municipality, Sheriff's Department, hopefully will do their homework comprehensively? Maybe before embarking on a potential Homers Odyssey of conjectural Policing Issues with Devens?, plus it not being an Incorporated Municipality speaks volumes.
A conjectural early warning sign (Issues) may be be Post#9, conjecturally considering putting Military Police with Law Enforcement authority over a Civilian populace?((b) contract for police services with one or more of the Town's police, state police or the military police,)
I do not know how other Law Enforcement Officers may feel when potentially questioned in Court?'Officer where do you receive your police powers or Authority from'? Mass Develop Devens I think? You conjecturally mean the same Mass Develop that they can potentially contract out Civilian Law Enforcement duties to potentially the Military Police?
Basic: The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C.§ 1385) passed on June 18, 1878, after the end of Reconstruction, with the intention (in concert with the Insurrection Act of 1807) of substantially limiting the powers of the federal government to use the military for law enforcement. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (today the Marine Corps, Army, Navy, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement, police, or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states and their counties and municipal divisions) within the United States.
In closing "Good Luck", but my opinion pass the Torch when Devens becomes its own Municipality? Let Devens become its own Municipality,(Really Why Not?) and in reality eventually they may create their own Police Force.
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