Chicago Public Schools to fire hundreds at 8 under-performing s...

[ct_sosmith]

Glasnos wrote:

<quoted text>
Look ... private schools are doing a better job right now, all vouchers will do is make them accessible for poor parents.

That's ONLY true if you agree to one of the stipulations I put forward before (requiring that any school taking the vouchers has to let that cover the entire cost of educating the student). Otherwise, every private school currently in existence will simply raise their tuition by 95% of the voucher amount. Poor parents still won't be able to afford them, but the schools won't suffer the drop in attendance that would occur otherwise from such a dramatic increase. The effect of unrestricted subsidies on pricing is basic economics.

As for troubled kids? Government schools have lowered their standards to accomodate "troubled" kids. That is a major disservice to all the other children ... what about them? As a private school, the students must abide by the rules ... or they can take their vouchers elsewhere. That is the only way you can maintain a learning enviornment.
What your attitude is, and the public schools mistake, is accomodating students who don't want to learn, and only create a disturbance. They should be expelled. The poor education they would get only amounts to a day care diploma anyway. If you keep a rotten apple in with the good ones ... you end up with a bin full of rotten apples.

Oddly, we actually agree on this point--we need to get the problem students out of the mainstream schools and into high-discipline programs that might have a chance of straightening them out, while allowing the good kids the opportunity to learn in an undisrupted environment. Maybe something akin to the magnet school system, but with schools dedicated to providing a high-discipline environment (easier to do in such schools, precisely because they don't have to abide by all of the usual rules).

The only hope for poor children is vouchers. It is clear government schools are not going to get any better. The teacher's union right now wants to do away with all tests. That is moving still in the wrong direction for a decent education for children.

The tests, unfortunately, have become a blind panacea. For instance, compare two high schools. The first is fed from a high-quality elementary school system; the second is not. Students in the second school usually have much lower performance levels when they arrive in the first place. Very likely, even if they perform small miracles with the kids over their four-year career, their students will still be behind the better school at graduation.

[shughes]

chicagokp wrote:

<quoted text>Ed O...Have you ever taught in a inner city school? Have you ever had to deal with the problems that teachers in these schools have had to deal with? Or are you simply spouting off and demonstrating your tremendous lack of intelligence on this matter? Think before you type.....

EdO is a racist. He can't help it.

[One 2 aim high]

Wow is all I can say. Someone sent this article to me and my mouth is dropping open from some of the comments about teachers and education I am reading on the board. It amazes me when non-educators make observations about teachers and schools without ever being an educator. I have worked as an urban educator for nearly 13 years now. There are so many layers to the many complicated problems of urban schools that it is difficult to place the blame soley on teachers (or parents or the principal for that matter). I am not sure that firing all those teachers is the solution, however it is an interesteing concept. I would like to know when and where has it been done and what data supports its success. Being in education all this time I have witnessed several initiatives that within three years end up loosing its momentum by the third year. For the person that posted this comment:
"Get real, you only do 9 months worth of work, I barely make more than her work 4 more hours a day, have profesional finance cirtifications and am lucky if I get to take my 2 weeks of vacation every year!!!!"

If you work in an urban school district and 9 months out of the year I work extremely hard. I hustle like hell to get the supplies I need for my students and I have to fight every odd imaginable to manage children and provide quality instruction...with little support. There are no easy days!!! Every day is a challenge. Poor Attendance,high poverty, inadaquate health care, high unemployment, and violence on top of the fact that students can transfer in out of the school during the school year all complicate the equation and have a disasterous effect of the positive outcomes measured by state assessments.

I have a masters degree and I paid for it! In my state (MI) you have to obtain it by your 5th year of teaching.

Lastly, I guess I could end by adding that the solution to fire everyone seems simple enough but it must be taken into consideration that a well thought out plan needs to be developed when starting from so called "scratch". I predict that each of these schools will be challenged with organization and team builing issues early on. It is difficult to get an entire staff let alone a cluster of schools on the same collaborative page without proper support form the school district. Like many schools Principals are often holding the bag for poorly thought out district initiatives that look good on paper and sound good to the public.

[stargazer]

Well said...thanks

One 2 aim high wrote:

Wow is all I can say. Someone sent this article to me and my mouth is dropping open from some of the comments about teachers and education I am reading on the board. It amazes me when non-educators make observations about teachers and schools without ever being an educator. I have worked as an urban educator for nearly 13 years now. There are so many layers to the many complicated problems of urban schools that it is difficult to place the blame soley on teachers (or parents or the principal for that matter). I am not sure that firing all those teachers is the solution, however it is an interesteing concept. I would like to know when and where has it been done and what data supports its success. Being in education all this time I have witnessed several initiatives that within three years end up loosing its momentum by the third year. For the person that posted this comment:
"Get real, you only do 9 months worth of work, I barely make more than her work 4 more hours a day, have profesional finance cirtifications and am lucky if I get to take my 2 weeks of vacation every year!!!!"
If you work in an urban school district and 9 months out of the year I work extremely hard. I hustle like hell to get the supplies I need for my students and I have to fight every odd imaginable to manage children and provide quality instruction...with little support. There are no easy days!!! Every day is a challenge. Poor Attendance,high poverty, inadaquate health care, high unemployment, and violence on top of the fact that students can transfer in out of the school during the school year all complicate the equation and have a disasterous effect of the positive outcomes measured by state assessments.
I have a masters degree and I paid for it! In my state (MI) you have to obtain it by your 5th year of teaching.
Lastly, I guess I could end by adding that the solution to fire everyone seems simple enough but it must be taken into consideration that a well thought out plan needs to be developed when starting from so called "scratch". I predict that each of these schools will be challenged with organization and team builing issues early on. It is difficult to get an entire staff let alone a cluster of schools on the same collaborative page without proper support form the school district. Like many schools Principals are often holding the bag for poorly thought out district initiatives that look good on paper and sound good to the public.

[walk in my shoes]

Reality wrote:

<quoted text>
More money never fixes anything
Jennrich Karl M $149,320 CHSD 128
Gerlach Kevin L $150,034 CHSD 155
Podraza Richard P $148,538 CHSD 155
Blundy Douglas M $152,985 CHSD 155
Kay Bruce M $141,856 CHSD 155
Junkroski Paul W $144,563 CHSD 94
Grandolfo Peter J $141,212 CITY OF CHICAGO SD 299

These salaries often include night school, summer school, paid professional developments, afterschool programs, security duty at football and basketball games etc. These salaries do not always reflect the teacher's straight salary. Most teachers I know do work past the student dismissal time preparing lessons in order to be able to teach their classes. Time spent after school hours is not paid. Many teachers are at school before and after regular paid hours no one thinks to count these hours plus all the hours spent grading papers at home. These are the real numbers for the hours teachers work.

[concerned]

Why are we still blaming teachers for poor student performance in an underfunded educational system that segregates students based on class (and by default, race)? Instead of stopping to address the real issues, blame the teachers. Even this article refers to previous attempts to bring in people who can turn this around. The problem isn't with the teachers, nor the students. It is with the system itself. And, until the system is fixed, and money funneled into the schools that need it the most, change is unlikely.

[stargazer]

concerned wrote:

Why are we still blaming teachers for poor student performance in an underfunded educational system that segregates students based on class (and by default, race)? Instead of stopping to address the real issues, blame the teachers. Even this article refers to previous attempts to bring in people who can turn this around. The problem isn't with the teachers, nor the students. It is with the system itself. And, until the system is fixed, and money funneled into the schools that need it the most, change is unlikely.

Very well said...

[rosco]

In these ghetto schools the parents see the school as a daycare center nothing more. Parents there don't help their kids with homework because they never did the homework while they were in school. The parents are even dumber than their kids.