Facts about the Mormon Church

Facts about the Mormon Church

There are 374 comments on the Metrowest Daily News story from May 21, 2006, titled Facts about the Mormon Church. In it, Metrowest Daily News reports that:

Monday, May 22, 2006 M urder victims Carla Souza and her son Caique Souza were members of the Mormon Church.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Metrowest Daily News.

Ardith

United States

#278 Oct 24, 2007
Here is a lengthy article written by two prominent Evangelical Theologians: Carl Mosser and Paul Owen on how to address the Mormon problem that is currently facing Evangelicals. See how they are instructing the troops to engage us Mormons. Great read although it’s not for everyone…is long and scholarly!!!

http://www.cephasministry.com/mormon_apologet...
Pork and Beans

Taylorsville, UT

#279 Oct 25, 2007
Fact. LDS Bishops are required to "interview" (in private) young men and women and ask such questions as if they masturbate and or have sexual relations.
Kyle

Canada

#280 Oct 31, 2007
I got a brilliant idea!!!! Let's go to a Honda dealer to learn the facts about how a Ford is made :)
Kyle

Canada

#281 Oct 31, 2007
Fact. Most people that have beeen CONVICTED of rape masturbated to pornography.
Hit the Road Jack

Taylorsville, UT

#282 Oct 31, 2007
Fact. I threw my CTR ring in the trash and did not look back.
Joel S

Las Vegas, NV

#283 Jan 20, 2008
Do any of you believe that our Savior Jesus Christ would leave out the Americas in his ministry here on earth? Would our Heavenly Father allow ministry to half of his children and not the other half? Better yet, would any of you educate, nurture, and love one of your own children and neglect the other?
The book of Mormon is: "Another Testament to Jesus Christ", his ministries in the Americas.
Could a farm boy with a second grade education have written it? Certainly not without the help of divinity.
concerned in Brasil

Brazil

#284 Jan 20, 2008
Joel S wrote:
Do any of you believe that our Savior Jesus Christ would leave out the Americas in his ministry here on earth? Would our Heavenly Father allow ministry to half of his children and not the other half? Better yet, would any of you educate, nurture, and love one of your own children and neglect the other?
The book of Mormon is: "Another Testament to Jesus Christ", his ministries in the Americas.
Could a farm boy with a second grade education have written it? Certainly not without the help of divinity.
your between a rock and a hard place to make such an illogical arguement.

Because I then will ask you why would God deny the information of becoming a God to 6000 years of humanity.

Then I will ask you have you ever read Romans 1-2-3 if you have you would already know he has not.

God bless
I miss Mohan

United States

#285 Jan 20, 2008
Fact. Mohan loves the LDS faith but dislikes me.

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#286 Jan 20, 2008
Kramerica wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not a secret password but is a "new name", which is also referred to in the Bible. It is something sacred and not secret.
The church is mostly rich because of the sacrifice of a lot of the members, who sacrifice by giving 10% of their earnings. The money goes to building chapels and temples. The church also gives to the needy throughout the world.
You get a new secret name. Its pretty cool. theres a total of 55 or so secret names, and every one who gets their secret name that day all get the same one, so they can look it up if you forget it.
In addition to living worthy lives, and being one of the chosen few religions throughout all the people that have EVER lived to get this eternal gift. The coolest part is either before or after you're judged for how you lived in this life, you get 3 secret handshakes you gotta give the angels that stand guard of heaven. Ive got a good buddy who's a good dude, who i showed the secret handshake I learned in the temple, and see how smart the angels are. Itll be pretty funny if he tricks them. I think the masons should be good there too, since their handshakes are exactly the same. If the angel gets pissed at me, im gonna blame the masons. If that happens after judgement and I can pull it off, then im in one of the 3 best heavens in the afterlife. SCORE!
Im tired of people saying mormons are wierd. The fact that our god lives near this planet it the scriptures is pretty cool I think.
Crap. I just remembered I promised in 1986 that I wouldnt tell anyone about the secret handshake or they'd remove my bowels and cut my throat. Hopefully this thread moves down fast.
Theyre secret because theyre really wierd. Joseph smith became a mason and within a few weeks mormons got their temple endowment. Before that they just winged it and they had visions.
I miss Mohan

United States

#287 Jan 20, 2008
How about those "secret" rump shaker moves inside the temple as well?

Chuck

United States

#288 Jan 20, 2008
Rituals, by definition, are acts that are performed repeatedly with an expectation of some type of results. In the case of religion, the results involve God's intervention. For example, in Old Testament times, under the direction of the prophets, the people sacrificed animals in similitude of the sacrifice which Jesus Christ was going to make in their behalf. Rituals regarding the Passover were especially evident. In the time of Christ, doves and other animals were sacrificed by the hundreds of thousands yearly in the temple. Yet today, these same God-introduced actions would seem strange, almost cultic. Nevertheless, they were commanded of God through Moses.

In New Testament times, other rituals were initiated. The Lord's supper, baptisms, and symbolic washing of feet are examples of these rituals.

It is easy for others to label something they do not understand as non-Christian or Satanic. Consider the Muslim tradition of facing Mecca five times a day when one prays: it isn't something Christians do, but it isn't satanic either.

Because non-LDS Christians don't understand the LDS temple and what goes on there, some have relentlessly dreamed up bizarre stories that mark this sacred worship. Lately, a small group of anti-Mormons, while professing great love of Mormons, claim a worship of the devil occurs in the temple, which just isn't true.

The rituals we perform in the temple seem different to them, but different doesn't make them evil. Picture a non-Christian hearing Jesus speak these words: "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him" (John 6:56). Some of Christ's own disciples were so confused about the introduction of this "ritual" they quit following Jesus (John 6:66).

The Old Testament, especially Exodus and Numbers, is replete with temple rituals that today seem strange and very different to us. These are God's words to Moses from the Good News Bible, Exodus
29:4-9:

Bring Aaron and his sons to the entrance of the Tent of my presence, and have them take a ritual bath. Then dress Aaron in the priestly garments—the shirt, the ephod, the robe that goes over the ephod, the breastpiece, and the belt. Put the turban on him, and tie on it the sacred sign of dedication engrave, dedicated to the Lord, then take the anointing oil, pour it on his head, and anoint him. Bring his sons and put shirts on them; put sashes around their waists and tie caps on their heads ... They and their descendants are to serve me as priests forever.

Later in the same 29th chapter of Exodus, we read:

Take the other ram—the ram used for dedication—and tell Aaron and his sons to put their hands on its head. Kill it, and take some of its blood and put it on the lobes of the right ears of Aaron and his sons, and on the thumbs of their right hands and on the big toes of their right feet. Throw the rest of the blood against all four sides of the altar (Exodus 29:19-20).

Obviously these rituals are no longer performed. However, those who believe the Bible to be the word of God accept these rituals as being from God and of God, strange as they sound to us today.

True followers of Jesus Christ during the meridian of time would not have tried to get Peter to talk about what transpired on the Mount of Transfiguration after the Lord had told him and two other apostles not to tell anyone else, as long as the Lord was living. Those rituals which are performed in the temples today consist of making sacred covenants with our Father in Heaven. No one in good taste makes fun of things sacred to another, nor tries to bait them into talking publicly about things they have promised not to divulge.
Chuck

United States

#289 Jan 20, 2008
Especially significant in this respect are the five catechetical lectures delivered by the fourth-century bishop St. Cyril to newly-baptized Christians, comprising lectures 19-23 in the collection. In the first lecture (19:10-11), he speaks of the converts being "clothed in the garment of salvation, even Jesus Christ." And reminds them that "these things were done in the outer chamber. But if God will, when in the succeeding lectures on the Mysteries we have entered into the Holy of Holies, we shall there know the symbolical meaning of the things which are there performed." In the second lecture (20:2-4), he reminds his listeners that "those things, which were done by you in the inner chamber, were symbolical. As soon, then, as ye entered, ye put off your tunic; and this was an image of putting off the old man with his deeds....and were made partakers of the good olive-tree, Jesus Christ ... After these things, ye were led to the holy pool of Divine Baptism." In the third lecture (21:3-4, 6), he explains that the ointment is symbolically applied to the forehead and "thy other senses; and while the body is anointed with the visible ointment, the soul is sanctified by Holy and life-giving Spirit. And ye were first anointed on the forehead ... Then on your ears; that ye might receive the ears which are quick to hear the Divine Mysteries ... Then on the nostrils ... Afterwards on your breast," then he notes that the anointing is for the high priest and king, suggesting that the initiate becomes a priest and king.13 In the fourth lecture (22:8), Cyril cites Ecclesiastes 9:8 ("Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment") and adds, "But now, having put off thy old garments, and put on those which are spiritually white, thou must be continually robed in white: of course we mean not this, that thou art always to wear white raiment; but thou must be clad in the garments that are truly white and shining and spiritual."

The initiation as king and priest (or bishop), even in our century, also involves receiving a new name. Indeed, the giving of a new name during initiation rites is common in many cultures, as I learned while working on my BA in anthropology. Though much additional information could be added to what has already been published, I refer you to the excellent study by Bruce H. Porter and Stephen D. Ricks on this topic. I shall add just one reference from the Mandaeans, a religious community of Iraq and Iran who claim to be descendants of the disciples of John the Baptist. Here we quote from the document known as Diwan Masbuta d Hibil Ziwa ("The Scroll of the Baptism of Hibil Ziwa"), which refers to seals, handclasps (called kušta in Mandaean), and names:

And the kings (spirits) took kušta with him and (each) conferred on him some of his own glory. They gave him seven coverings and sealed him with a first seal; its name, a secret name, was graven thereon. Then (they sealed him with) a second seal, "the-seal-Makšiel" was graven thereon.(Then) a third; its name was "Zarziel-that-guardeth-hi m" and a secret name was engraven thereon. The fourth seal, "Great-Light" was graven thereon, a secret name. The fifth seal, "Light" was graven thereon, a secret name. The seventh seal, "Name-of-the-Life" was graven thereon (and?) "Radiance," a secret name. Such were the sealings daily

THE HANDCLASP:
The clasping of hands while revealing secrets is known from a number of early documents. In one of the fifth-century Christian Gnostic documents found at Nag Hammadi in Egypt in 1945, the Second Apocalypse of James....
(for more see link)
http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/1999_...

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#290 Jan 20, 2008
I Dont think theyre evil, I just think theyre at best unneccesary, and at worst silly.

Joseph smith had promised an endowment for a few years, and thats what he came up with. His people had sacrficied and moved for him, and he gave them....an altered masonic ritual.

Most christians believe to varying degrees theyll stand at a judgement day of some sort. Mormons Believe they need to do the patriarchal grip and 2 other handshakes to even get into to that point, or in addition to. I did it for years, but at the end of the day (amoung other things) I could not ponder that and make any sense of it.

But that makes sense to you?
Chuck

United States

#291 Jan 20, 2008
Frank Waters, The Book of the Hopi (New York: Viking Press, 1963), 252, writes that Hopi tradition records the original meeting of Hopis and Spaniards, saying “that Tovar and his men were conducted to Oraibi. They were met by all the clan chiefs at Tawtoma, as prescribed by prophecy, where four lines of sacred meal were drawn. The Bear Clan leader stepped up to the barrier and extended his hand, palm up, to the leader of the white men. If he was indeed the true Pahana, theHopis knew he would extend his own hand, palm down, and clasp the Bear Clan leader’s hand to form the nakwach, the ancient symbol of brotherhood. Tovar instead curtly commanded one of his men to drop a gift into the Bear chief’s hand, believing that the Indian wanted a present of some kind. Instantly all the Hopi chiefs knew that Pahana had forgotten the ancient agreement made between their peoples at the time of their separation. Nevertheless, the Spaniards were escorted up to Oraibi, fed and quartered, and the agreement explained to them. It was understood that when the two were finally reconciled, each would correct the other’s laws and faults; they would live side by side and share in common all the riches of the land and join their faiths in one religion that would establish the truth of life in a spirit of universal brotherhood. The Spaniards did not understand, and having found no gold, they soon departed.”[Cf. 151, 344: nakwa is a mark of identification; nakwach is a symbol of brotherhood.]

PASSWORD OR SIGNS
As those who were admitted to the inner sights of the mysteries had a formula or pass-word ..., so the catechumens had a formula which was only entrusted to them in the last days of their catechumenate--the baptismal formula itself and the Lord's Prayer."101

As the faithful approached the priest they put forward their hands in the shape of a cup to receive the bread:

In approaching therefore, come not with thy wrists extended, or thy fingers spread; but make thy left hand a throne for the right, as for that which is to receive a King. And having hollowed thy palm, receive the Body of Christ, saying over it, Amen.
--Cyril of Jerusalem
Chuck

United States

#292 Jan 20, 2008
The relationship of Freemasonry to the LDS Temple Endowment has long been a matter of speculation among students of Mormon history. Joseph Smith was of the opinion that Masonic ritual was a corrupt form of the original Priesthood. Thus, in a letter to Parley P. Pratt, written three months after Joseph became a Master Mason,1 Heber C. Kimball observed that:

There is a similarity of Priesthood in Masonry. Brother Joseph says Masonry was taken from the Priesthood, but has degenerated. But many things are perfect.2

Later, he explained that:

The Masonry of today is received from the apostasy which took place in the days of Solomon and David. They have now and then a thing that is correct, but we have the real thing.3

Benjamin F. Johnson, another of Joseph's intimate friends, recalled the similar opinion of the Prophet that:

Freemasonry was the apostate endowment, as sectarian religion was the apostate religion.4

But since Masonic historians make no claim that masonry existed prior to the time of the medieval cathedral-builders, anti-Mormons have been quick to argue that the similarities between Mormonism and Masonry can only be of recent origin, indeed, can be no more than the product of deliberate borrowing from the Masons by a naive or devious Joseph Smith. Very seldom, however, do they think to ask where the Masons obtained their ideas, or to compare them with what is known of the Primitive Church and its Temple traditions. Indeed, most recent scholars are content to point out superficial resemblances between the Mormon Endowment and the rites of Free-masonry, while entirely ignoring the fact that the Endowment far more closely resembles the ancient rites of the Church than it does Freemasonry, or than Freemasonry resembles the ancient rites of the Church.5 Were they to discover what truly lies behind Freemasonry, then, they would quickly realize that it has preserved authentic relics of early Christianity, which by largely unknown means had filtered down to it from the mysteries of the past, and which even in their Masonic dress furnish important clues to the nature of their original sources. Obviously, Joseph Smith was inspired to recognize this generic relationship; thus it would appear to have been Providence rather than Deception which led the Prophet to become a Mason in 1842, perhaps as part of his ongoing education in the rudiments of the Restored Gospel.....
(for more see link)
http://shields-research.org/General/Masonry.h...

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#293 Jan 20, 2008
Chuck wrote:
Frank Waters, The Book of the Hopi (New York: Viking Press, 1963), 252, writes that Hopi tradition records the original meeting of Hopis and Spaniards, saying “that Tovar and his men were conducted to Oraibi. They were met by all the clan chiefs at Tawtoma, as prescribed by prophecy, where four lines of sacred meal were drawn. The Bear Clan leader stepped up to the barrier and extended his hand, palm up, to the leader of the white men. If he was indeed the true Pahana, theHopis knew he would extend his own hand, palm down, and clasp the Bear Clan leader’s hand to form the nakwach, the ancient symbol of brotherhood. Tovar instead curtly commanded one of his men to drop a gift into the Bear chief’s hand, believing that the Indian wanted a present of some kind. Instantly all the Hopi chiefs knew that Pahana had forgotten the ancient agreement made between their peoples at the time of their separation. Nevertheless, the Spaniards were escorted up to Oraibi, fed and quartered, and the agreement explained to them. It was understood that when the two were finally reconciled, each would correct the other’s laws and faults; they would live side by side and share in common all the riches of the land and join their faiths in one religion that would establish the truth of life in a spirit of universal brotherhood. The Spaniards did not understand, and having found no gold, they soon departed.”[Cf. 151, 344: nakwa is a mark of identification; nakwach is a symbol of brotherhood.]
PASSWORD OR SIGNS
As those who were admitted to the inner sights of the mysteries had a formula or pass-word ..., so the catechumens had a formula which was only entrusted to them in the last days of their catechumenate--the baptismal formula itself and the Lord's Prayer."101
As the faithful approached the priest they put forward their hands in the shape of a cup to receive the bread:
In approaching therefore, come not with thy wrists extended, or thy fingers spread; but make thy left hand a throne for the right, as for that which is to receive a King. And having hollowed thy palm, receive the Body of Christ, saying over it, Amen.
--Cyril of Jerusalem
Thats a huge reach. The only similarity there is that they had a ritual handshake. Christians certainly don't have the market on those in any era.
Chuck

United States

#294 Jan 20, 2008
These types of things are littered throughout the ancient writings. But if you really wanted to know about these things you would extend yourself to learn them on your own. But I guess that takes too much of an effort.

When the students ready the teacher will appear.

Good Luck & God Bless

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#295 Jan 20, 2008
Chuck wrote:
These types of things are littered throughout the ancient writings. But if you really wanted to know about these things you would extend yourself to learn them on your own. But I guess that takes too much of an effort.
When the students ready the teacher will appear.
Good Luck & God Bless
Hey, good to see the mormon condescention coming out. Its a nice change to shotgunned information.

Chuck, youre assuming. I studied the mormon church for 30 years. What am I supposed to take out of your post? That because christians have had handshake rituals it proves the the restored temple endowment? Now Im the ignorant one?

I've studied them. They don't make the connections you think they make.
Chuck

United States

#296 Jan 20, 2008
You like that don't you? So tell me...is it more about the argument...the parsing or mincing of words...or trying to have it both ways. Bait and switch...dominance of the superior mind...fun and games...it's all about winning...a great word play...the debate...the best rhetoric. Only thing is...one's faith and beliefs should not be up for debate or ridicule by others...faith is a funny thing...it's something that can't be proven the way a skeptic whats it proven...faith is just that...FAITH. You know, "that warm and fuzzy feeling." It's not a facts and figures type of knowing...but peaceful knowing. Rationals, thinkers and intellectuals have a harder time with this concept so I really do feel for you.(pun intended)(<wink>)

And about history?
We would also like to think that there are certainties when it comes to history. History is a funny thing too. We like to think that everyone will know until the end of time that George Washington was the first President of the United States. But is that really true? He was the first President under the Constitution of the United States, but he was not our first President. The United States existed for over a decade as a confederacy before it adopted the Constitution. During that time, the Continental Congress had presidents who presided at their deliberations. You can see here how interpretive methods will change the perception of a fact.

Imagine the dilemma of skeptics who do not believe that Jesus Christ ever existed. Not only of Jesus Christ are there skeptics, but there are Jews who do not believe that King David or Abraham ever existed. They believe the whole Bible is a literary fiction. They are not interested in the kinds of questions we are dealing with here because, in their minds, it's like trying to reconstruct the script of a long-forgotten screen play from which we have only a few scraps of scribbled notes.

So, if you were dissatisfied with the LDS Church why are you haunting the LDS forums and why haven't you moved on to something bigger and better? Or have you? It sort of reminds me of the spirits who stick around after death...those spirits stuck between two worlds. You would think intelligent beings would take that brightness and pursue a better course than to belittle others for their beliefs.

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#297 Jan 20, 2008
Chuck wrote:
You like that don't you? So tell me...is it more about the argument...the
parsing or mincing of words...or trying to have it both ways. Bait and switch...dominance of the superior mind...fun and games...it's all about winning...a great word play...the debate...the best rhetoric. Only thing is...one's faith and beliefs should not be up for debate or ridicule by others...faith is a funny thing...it's something that can't be proven the way a skeptic whats it proven...faith is just that...FAITH. You know, "thabla bla bla)
First part of that sentence: It was too much fluff, so I skipped it, since it wasnt that good to me.
Middle part: Yeah, I agree. Faith isnt up for debate. You believe, just like I used to, so I understand what you're saying. Run with it.
Last Part: Im hardly an intellectual, but Ray Charles could see theres something fishy with mormon theology and practices. If you even think beyond or church approved box a little bit, Let ALONE read any sort of history outside the church. It rationally stopped making sense after a while, from a consistency and a common sense basis. Once I read what the church would rather not have you read about their OWN history from the mouths of their own people, It all tied together. I just twisted my brain around it for 40 years, and now I'm free of it.
Chuck wrote:
And about history?
We would also like to think that there are certainties when it comes to history. History is a funny thing too. We like to think that everyone will know until the end of time that George Washington was the first President of the United States. But is that really true? He was the first President under the Constitution of the United States, but he was not our first President. The United States existed for over a decade as a confederacy before it adopted the Constitution. During that time, the Continental Congress had presidents who presided at their deliberations. You can see here how interpretive methods will change the perception of a fact.
Imagine the dilemma of skeptics who do not believe that bla bla bla
Right, Right. I already knew about George washington, and just like your other factual arguemtnts so far, it has DICK to do with the mormonism theries. I know you baptised him at one point in St George, Along with an atheist Thomas Jefferson, but thats beside the point too. You should have brought up how some poeple dont believe in the holocaust either. I'm sure Theres a pony in that pile of crap that you could bolster your faith with, because the facts don't add up. They also thought at one time that steel swords, horses and barley were in south america, but thats neither here nor there. I suggest you DO NOT research that sir, or you will have to make silly excuses for it also.
Chuck wrote:
So, if you were dissatisfied with the LDS Church why are you haunting the LDS forums and why bla bla bla
You're actually right about that. Im just gratifying my pride, just like you gratify your desire to be condescending, waving your one and only truth around like a flag. Having the whole light of the spirit like that, You'd think you'd be alot better than me. Im under the control of satan now I guess, sifting me like chaff.
Truth is, Ill probably do this a few more times then get sick of it, and you can all go back to posting your christian soap operas again, having a great time. I really do have better things to do.
BTW, spirits don't stick around after death. Unless youre talking about elvis. I've actually seen HIM, unlike the three nephites, or the quakers living on the moon that your early prophets spoke up. Ill have to take those on faith.

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