SmartMeters: We need tests, and results

SmartMeters: We need tests, and results

There are 21 comments on the Vallejo Times-Herald story from May 1, 2010, titled SmartMeters: We need tests, and results. In it, Vallejo Times-Herald reports that:

Implementing new technology rarely proceeds without complaint, especially when those advancing the innovation have credibility issues.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Vallejo Times-Herald.

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Cal

United States

#1 May 1, 2010
Em... we have a Department of Weights and Measures. They certify measuring equipment and the like used in our economy to accurately give the public what is paid for.

Why not require such certification for meters such as PG&E is using?

It would create more jobs and not just our last year and a half of lip service from the B.O. Administration!
Family Man

Santa Clara, CA

#2 May 1, 2010
PG&E SmartMeter Problem No Accident
Voters should vote no on Proposition 16.

For months now PG&E has insisted its new digital SmartMeters are working perfectly while completely discarding thousands of customer complaints whose bills have dramatically skyrocketed in an amount.

PG&E is no stranger to other scandals and fines. It not a question of an “honest” mistake, oh “oops” this was unintended. These meters where designed by engineers and manufactured in assembly line style, and tested in a laboratory long before installation.

If you take a close look at the sheer volume of documented scandals, the first image that comes to mind is that PG&E is hardly a good citizen. Scandal after scandal that the company has been publicly caught. Convictions have resulted in many fines, some very large. The company has often escaped prosecution of other scandalous acts, by mere technicality.

So after months of problems, 5.5 million meters later in installation, PG&E recently said it found problems with 43,000 meters. Can you believe that PG&E says that is only “a few” problems? PG&E said 99 percent of the meters have performed without problems.

But, that shouldn't be unexpected that only a small percent of customers actually complain. Many customers are too busy to complain, have not kept their old billing records, or simply feel complaining does no good. Many may feel it is too stressful to wait in a call tree all day -- some are too old, or simply uneducated to fight this. Then there are many customers who simply don't have the stomach or temperament to complain, or get excited because it's not good for their health.

The point is PGE full well understands why people don’t complain. There is a developing study called the “Theoretical Model of Consumer Complaint Behavior.” This behavior model presents cognitive evaluation of consumer psychological stress. PGE understands customer reaction to stress when confronted with high bills -- there is often a coping mechanism by the consumer.

It is no accident that PG&E will continue to profit by this “mistake”, all the while dragging their feet, and tactical strategy of ignoring what few customers complain. There won't be a full accounting of the problem until August, when an independent evaluation ordered by the California Public Utilities Commission is expected to be complete.

Some SmartMeter opponents have called for a suspension of the SmartMeter program until the audit is complete. One of those critics, Mark Toney, executive director of The Utility Reform Network, said the consumer advocacy group receives 30 to 40 calls per week from frustrated SmartMeter customers. Yet, in typical fashion the California Public Utilities Commission fails to initiate appropriate timely response. In lazy fashion it only meets once or twice a month to take any action at all.

On top of that, PG&E is spending tens of millions of dollars to hoodwink voters into passing Proposition 16 in June. The proposed constitutional amendment would require local governments to gain the approval of two-thirds of their voters before creating a local utility. PG&E's ads make it sound as though it only wants to protect taxpayers. The truth is the company is trying to enshrine its near-monopoly in the state constitution.

Voters didn't need another reason to vote no on Proposition 16 -- it's an appalling abuse of the initiative process. But PG&E's handling of the SmartMeter mess is a warning to anyone who's still on the fence. The company shouldn't be allowed to gain any further control over Northern California's power market.
Yes On A

Vallejo, CA

#3 May 1, 2010
Family Man wrote:
PG&E SmartMeter Problem No Accident
Voters should vote no on Proposition 16.
For months now PG&E has insisted its new digital SmartMeters are working perfectly while completely discarding thousands of customer complaints whose bills have dramatically skyrocketed in an amount.
PG&E is no stranger to other scandals and fines. It not a question of an “honest” mistake, oh “oops” this was unintended. These meters where designed by engineers and manufactured in assembly line style, and tested in a laboratory long before installation.
If you take a close look at the sheer volume of documented scandals, the first image that comes to mind is that PG&E is hardly a good citizen. Scandal after scandal that the company has been publicly caught. Convictions have resulted in many fines, some very large. The company has often escaped prosecution of other scandalous acts, by mere technicality.
So after months of problems, 5.5 million meters later in installation, PG&E recently said it found problems with 43,000 meters. Can you believe that PG&E says that is only “a few” problems? PG&E said 99 percent of the meters have performed without problems.
But, that shouldn't be unexpected that only a small percent of customers actually complain. Many customers are too busy to complain, have not kept their old billing records, or simply feel complaining does no good. Many may feel it is too stressful to wait in a call tree all day -- some are too old, or simply uneducated to fight this. Then there are many customers who simply don't have the stomach or temperament to complain, or get excited because it's not good for their health.
The point is PGE full well understands why people don’t complain. There is a developing study called the “Theoretical Model of Consumer Complaint Behavior.” This behavior model presents cognitive evaluation of consumer psychological stress. PGE understands customer reaction to stress when confronted with high bills -- there is often a coping mechanism by the consumer.
It is no accident that PG&E will continue to profit by this “mistake”, all the while dragging their feet, and tactical strategy of ignoring what few customers complain. There won't be a full accounting of the problem until August, when an independent evaluation ordered by the California Public Utilities Commission is expected to be complete.
Some SmartMeter opponents have called for a suspension of the SmartMeter program until the audit is complete. One of those critics, Mark Toney, executive director of The Utility Reform Network, said the consumer advocacy group receives 30 to 40 calls per week from frustrated SmartMeter customers. Yet, in typical fashion the California Public Utilities Commission fails to initiate appropriate timely response. In lazy fashion it only meets once or twice a month to take any action at all.
On top of that, PG&E is spending tens of millions of dollars to hoodwink voters into passing Proposition 16 in June. The proposed constitutional amendment would require local governments to gain the approval of two-thirds of their voters before creating a local utility. PG&E's ads make it sound as though it only wants to protect taxpayers. The truth is the company is trying to enshrine its near-monopoly in the state constitution.
Voters didn't need another reason to vote no on Proposition 16 -- it's an appalling abuse of the initiative process. But PG&E's handling of the SmartMeter mess is a warning to anyone who's still on the fence. The company shouldn't be allowed to gain any further control over Northern California's power market.
What a load of conspiracy bull. I will vote no on prop. 16, but everything else you say is pure crap. If anything, my bill is less now than in the past.

There are network security issues which make the meters vulnerable to cracker (not hacker) attacks. Procedurally, PG&E can resolve these problems. Hopefully the PUC will make sure that they do.
Yes On A

Vallejo, CA

#4 May 1, 2010
What you are saying is that PG&E has conspired to rip off the rate payers of this state through the new metering system. Sorry, they don't have the brains or the balls to pull that off on anything but a very small scale.(BTW: I do not own any PG&E stock.)

The SmartMeter network itself is vulnerable to attack. A widespread attack could be economically devastating. This is something worth worrying about.

I want to be able to check my usage throughout the month and SmartMeters have the potential of providing the information without having to walk outside in the rain with a flashlight. Looking forward to having my usage information available to me (and only me) via the Internet.

Utilities all over have found that when customers have access to this information they actually conserve energy, REDUCING revenue. So it would be an advantage to PG&E NOT to install these new meters.

I only wish PG&E management were as smart as the meters themselves. The suits were so stupid that they were victimized by the Enron scandal. That's what really has hurt ratepayers.
Jus Jim

West End, NC

#5 May 1, 2010
It sounds like these meters are being used as the old type in commercial Buildings. These were called ON-DEMAND meters,and you were charged by the time of day when you used most of your energy. These were in addition to the regular meters.
Jus Jim

West End, NC

#6 May 1, 2010
It looks like they found a way, using software to incorporate both types into one meter.
Yes On A

Vallejo, CA

#7 May 1, 2010
Jus Jim wrote:
It sounds like these meters are being used as the old type in commercial Buildings. These were called ON-DEMAND meters,and you were charged by the time of day when you used most of your energy. These were in addition to the regular meters.
Don't know what you are trying say, but Time of Use metering was a way to encourage big business users to level their usage so that they don't cause brown-outs through excessive, even if brief, demand. Basically, their peak usage at any point during the month was interpreted as the usage for the whole month, 24/7. You can bet that this encouraged big users to be more careful about switching on loads carefully, or incrementally, and with better "power factor" correction.
hiway robbers

San Francisco, CA

#8 May 1, 2010
Under the manual reading of the meter, your bill was estimated month to month and then read every so often to capture your actual consumption. your bill was artificially high during low consumption months and artificially low during your peak months. The estimating method had a smoothing effect. Now under the real time measurement of the "smart" meters, you should be paying the actual amount month to month. You also will pay a higher price for electricity during peak hours of the day. Hold on to your wallets, No on 16.
WALL-E

Vallejo, CA

#9 May 1, 2010
Strange! I don't have an electric meter, just the gas. I told PG&E I don't want the electric meter. Their response was, well we will make three attempts then cut your service. So eventually I will be forced to have one, but not anytime soon. PG&E added they will not be installing one on for awhile due to some problems they have had with them, so they will be working that out first. Hmmmmm....
Solarman

Cathedral City, CA

#10 May 1, 2010
Cal wrote:
Em... we have a Department of Weights and Measures. They certify measuring equipment and the like used in our economy to accurately give the public what is paid for.
Why not require such certification for meters such as PG&E is using?
It would create more jobs and not just our last year and a half of lip service from the B.O. Administration!
Electronically calibrated equipment is superior to the old electro-mechanical gear driven types of meters. With the new meters, calibration is just one aspect of the meter package. In the European Union countries, there are bi-directional communication smart meters. You can reprogram electric rates on the fly over the electric grid any time of the day or night. In THEORY it should make the system more transparent to the end user, ratepayer. In practice, it would allow the utility to change rates on the fly and the amount of time each rate is in effect. It's like that old accounting practice where an accountant/programmer takes millions of transactions a day in money transfers and truncates 0.0001 from each transaction then puts this money into a personal account. It adds up real fast. You could have a higher rate structure for 8 hrs. one day and 12 hrs. the next day. Would it then even out over a period of time? It all depends on how you program it. The bottom line, is do you think the PUC is smart enough to keep an eye on smart meter programming practices?
hiway robbers

San Francisco, CA

#11 May 1, 2010
Solarman wrote:
<quoted text>...... The bottom line, is do you think the PUC is smart enough to keep an eye on smart meter programming practices?
That would be a No.
Family Man

Santa Clara, CA

#12 May 1, 2010
Yes On A wrote:
<quoted text>
What a load of conspiracy bull. I will vote no on prop. 16, but everything else you say is pure crap. If anything, my bill is less now than in the past.
There are network security issues which make the meters vulnerable to ****(not hacker) attacks. Procedurally, PG&E can resolve these problems. Hopefully the PUC will make sure that they do.
No conspiracy bull, PGE credibility is in question with the number of complains coming in. This is just a new way for PG&E to take shake money out of consumers' pockets, and another in a long list of dishonest plans by PG&E.

Maybe you would care to explain why there has been such a condemnation by the media. There are a number of media references available. Now suppose you show me at least one article that explains this, something more than just your valued opinion?

This isn't the only newspaper reporting problems:

Editorial: PG&E's abysmal response to SmartMeter fiasco - San Jose Mercury News
http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_1497011...

PG&E faces heavy scrutiny because of its 'SmartMeters'- The Reporter
http://www.thereporter.com/wirenews/ci_149660...

Smart Meters, Going Green and screwing you out of it | Not Another CONspiracy
http://www.notanotherconspiracy.com/2008/01/s...

PG&E: Other Scandals
http://www.energy-net.org/1NWO/PGE/8PGE.HTM

PG&E details technical problems with SmartMeters - San Jose Mercury News
http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_149...
Yes On A

Vallejo, CA

#13 May 2, 2010
Family Man wrote:
<quoted text>
No conspiracy bull, PGE credibility is in question with the number of complains coming in. This is just a new way for PG&E to take shake money out of consumers' pockets, and another in a long list of dishonest plans by PG&E.
Maybe you would care to explain why there has been such a condemnation by the media. There are a number of media references available. Now suppose you show me at least one article that explains this, something more than just your valued opinion?
This isn't the only newspaper reporting problems:
Editorial: PG&E's abysmal response to SmartMeter fiasco - San Jose Mercury News
http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_1497011...
PG&E faces heavy scrutiny because of its 'SmartMeters'- The Reporter
http://www.thereporter.com/wirenews/ci_149660...
Smart Meters, Going Green and screwing you out of it | Not Another CONspiracy
http://www.notanotherconspiracy.com/2008/01/s...
PG&E: Other Scandals
http://www.energy-net.org/1NWO/PGE/8PGE.HTM
PG&E details technical problems with SmartMeters - San Jose Mercury News
http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_149...
The media loves doom-and-gloom stories, especially where there's an unseen boogie man, such as the behind-the-scenes workings of the smart meter system. The public is constantly mislead by the popular media, which you apparently put too much stock in. How's that hopey-changey thing working for 'ya? For the media, this smart meter nonsense is just filler between earthquake and volcano stories or gushing adulation for Obama. The real disaster looming in this country is that he and the liberal-lefties are bankrupting us. We will soon be owned by the Chinese.

Tell me something: do you have a smart meter at home? How does your usage compare before/after its installation?

Not all the complaints about the smart meters have to do with accuracy either. There are a lot of problems simply because many homes have old rusted-out meter boxes and the PG&E contractors essentially disturbed fragile wiring, leading to unreliable electricity delivery and, in some cases, small fires.
Yes On A

Vallejo, CA

#14 May 2, 2010
Solarman wrote:
<quoted text>Electronically calibrated equipment is superior to the old electro-mechanical gear driven types of meters. With the new meters, calibration is just one aspect of the meter package. In the European Union countries, there are bi-directional communication smart meters. You can reprogram electric rates on the fly over the electric grid any time of the day or night. In THEORY it should make the system more transparent to the end user, ratepayer. In practice, it would allow the utility to change rates on the fly and the amount of time each rate is in effect. It's like that old accounting practice where an accountant/programmer takes millions of transactions a day in money transfers and truncates 0.0001 from each transaction then puts this money into a personal account. It adds up real fast. You could have a higher rate structure for 8 hrs. one day and 12 hrs. the next day. Would it then even out over a period of time? It all depends on how you program it. The bottom line, is do you think the PUC is smart enough to keep an eye on smart meter programming practices?
Yes, the meters communicate bidirectionally. However, they are data capture devices and remote-controlled switches -- they do not contain rate information or compute bills. The data is simply collected and sent to headquarters.

Theoretically, PG&E will have the capability to poll every meter in its territory once an hour (perhaps more frequently), but the meters probably can store months worth of hourly usage data until the communications network is setup. Industrial and residential Time of Use customers will be billed based on rate schedules that change hourly. Standard residential customers will be billed, at least for now, using the familiar rate tiers.

The point is: the meters are not so smart that they calculate your bill.
Family Man

Santa Clara, CA

#15 May 2, 2010
Yes On A wrote:
<quoted text>
The media loves doom-and-gloom stories, especially where there's an unseen boogie man, such as the behind-the-scenes workings of the smart meter system. The public is constantly mislead by the popular media, which you apparently put too much stock in. How's that hopey-changey thing working for 'ya? For the media, this smart meter nonsense is just filler between earthquake and volcano stories or gushing adulation for Obama. The real disaster looming in this country is that he and the liberal-lefties are bankrupting us. We will soon be owned by the Chinese.
Tell me something: do you have a smart meter at home? How does your usage compare before/after its installation?
I don't know you but I know of you. Sounds like the very familiar rhetoric from Fox news and Sarah Palin. During the 2008 she blamed all her problems on the media. Palin is famous for her "How's that hopey-changey thing working for 'ya?" I bet you have a tee-shirt too. Just perfect for a neophyte political junkies. Darn those democrats that have done it again! I noticed you managed to get Obama and China in there. You forgot the founding fathers in your rhetoric that I always hear every 5 min on Fox, or is that next?

Wrapped up in your explanation of purported victim-hood you take sides while standing on empty references, yet you attempt to shoot down any and all critical and contradictory information. Poor PGE, another misunderstood persecuted victim of the media, the infamous "feral beast". That darn media take their cues from "the partisan and vitriolic blogosphere". I have heard this before.

Who is Sarah Palin? She is the person who quit her term as governor half way through then offered a mixed-up explanation having to do with her days playing high school–basketball.
"She drives through a full-court press, protecting the ball, keeping her head up because she needs to keep her eye on the basket, and she knows exactly when to pass the ball so that the team can win," Palin said.

Who is Sarah Palin? During 2008 election it came out that the RNC spent $150,000 Sarah Palin's luxury clothes. So, after uproar over expensive clothes, Sarah went back to being frugal hockey mom with simple tastes, Joe Six Packs, every-woman, and ditched $150,000 wardrobe for a pair of blue jeans. Now Sarah Palin is back as a paid symbol for Tea Party now and Fox news correspondent. Except now she is not Sarah hockey mom, she is the pampered princess,$100,000 appearances, private planes, and Lear Jets.

Who is Sarah Palin? Sarah Palin has become quasi-symbol for Republican Party to bring in funding. As a paid symbol for Tea Party now she is out there to solicit for funding to raise cash for struggling republican campaigns. The Tea Party, while a worthy and valid movement is still loosely disorganized and being manipulated as smokescreen by slick California-based Republican consulting firms. A public memo came out which admitted that the Tea Party was a way to get rich. Oh, that's right, since that memo comes from the media it's all part of the left-wing conspiracy too.

To answer your question, how's that hopey-changey thing working for 'ya? Not bad at all, thanks to those left wing extremist the economy is recovering well now, and Wall Street DOW continues to climb higher. That certainly good for my 401k, Also, on Thursday, Republican California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger announced his commitment and support of the national healthcare reform bill. He says that it is a good bill, but what does a 2nd term republican governor know (who did not quit) when compared to Sarah Palin, who has so much more experience. So much for the "death panels" that Sarah Palin frequently mention, you aspire to so well.
Family Man

Santa Clara, CA

#16 May 2, 2010
Yes On A wrote:
<quoted text>
The media loves doom-and-gloom stories, especially where there's an unseen boogie man, such as the behind-the-scenes workings of the smart meter system. The public is constantly mislead by the popular media, which you apparently put too much stock in. How's that hopey-changey thing working for 'ya? For the media, this smart meter nonsense is just filler between earthquake and volcano stories or gushing adulation for Obama. The real disaster looming in this country is that he and the liberal-lefties are bankrupting us. We will soon be owned by the Chinese.
I don't know you but I know of you. Sounds like the very familiar rhetoric from Fox news and Sarah Palin. During the 2008 she blamed all her problems on the media. Palin is famous for her "How's that hopey-changey thing working for 'ya?" I bet you have a tee-shirt too. Just perfect for a neophyte political junkies. Darn those democrats that have done it again! I noticed you managed to get Obama and China in there. You forgot the founding fathers in your rhetoric that I always hear every 5 min on Fox, or is that next?

Wrapped up in your explanation of purported victim-hood you take sides while standing on empty references, yet you attempt to shoot down any and all critical and contradictory information. Poor PGE, another misunderstood persecuted victim of the media, the infamous "feral beast". That darn media take their cues from "the partisan and vitriolic blogosphere". I have heard this before.

Who is Sarah Palin? She is the person who quit her term as governor half way through then offered a mixed-up explanation having to do with her days playing high school–basketball.
"She drives through a full-court press, protecting the ball, keeping her head up because she needs to keep her eye on the basket, and she knows exactly when to pass the ball so that the team can win," Palin said.

Who is Sarah Palin? During 2008 election it came out that the RNC spent $150,000 Sarah Palin's luxury clothes. So, after uproar over expensive clothes, Sarah went back to being frugal hockey mom with simple tastes, Joe Six Packs, every-woman, and ditched $150,000 wardrobe for a pair of blue jeans. Now Sarah Palin is back as a paid symbol for Tea Party now and Fox news correspondent. Except now she is not Sarah hockey mom, she is the pampered princess,$100,000 appearances, private planes, and Lear Jets.

Who is Sarah Palin? Sarah Palin has become quasi-symbol for Republican Party to bring in funding. As a paid symbol for Tea Party now she is out there to solicit for funding to raise cash for struggling republican campaigns. The Tea Party, while a worthy and valid movement is still loosely disorganized and being manipulated as smokescreen by slick California-based Republican consulting firms. A public memo came out which admitted that the Tea Party was a way to get rich. Oh, that's right, since that memo comes from the media it's all part of the left-wing conspiracy too.

To answer your question, how's that hopey-changey thing working for 'ya? Not bad at all, thanks to those left wing extremist the economy is recovering well now, and Wall Street DOW continues to climb higher. That certainly good for my 401k, Also, on Thursday, Republican California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger announced his commitment and support of the national healthcare reform bill. He says that it is a good bill, but what does a 2nd term republican governor know (who did not quit) when compared to Sarah Palin, who has so much more experience. So much for the "death panels" that Sarah Palin frequently mention, you aspire to so well.
Family Man

Santa Clara, CA

#17 May 2, 2010
TO Yes On A

I don't know you but I know of you. Sounds like the very familiar rhetoric from Fox news and Sarah Palin. During the 2008 she blamed all her problems on the media. Palin is famous for her "How's that hopey-changey thing working for 'ya?" I bet you have a tee-shirt too. Just perfect for a neophyte political junkies. Darn those democrats that have done it again! I noticed you managed to get Obama and China in there. You forgot the founding fathers in your rhetoric that I always hear every 5 min on Fox, or is that next?

Wrapped up in your explanation of purported victim-hood you take sides while standing on empty references, yet you attempt to shoot down any and all critical and contradictory information. Poor PGE, another misunderstood persecuted victim of the media, the infamous "feral beast". That darn media take their cues from "the partisan and vitriolic blogosphere". I have heard this before.

Who is Sarah Palin? She is the person who quit her term as governor half way through then offered a mixed-up explanation having to do with her days playing high school–basketball.
"She drives through a full-court press, protecting the ball, keeping her head up because she needs to keep her eye on the basket, and she knows exactly when to pass the ball so that the team can win," Palin said.

Who is Sarah Palin? During 2008 election it came out that the RNC spent $150,000 Sarah Palin's luxury clothes. So, after uproar over expensive clothes, Sarah went back to being frugal hockey mom with simple tastes, Joe Six Packs, every-woman, and ditched $150,000 wardrobe for a pair of blue jeans. Now Sarah Palin is back as a paid symbol for Tea Party now and Fox news correspondent. Except now she is not Sarah hockey mom, she is the pampered princess,$100,000 appearances, private planes, and Lear Jets.

Who is Sarah Palin? Sarah Palin has become quasi-symbol for Republican Party to bring in funding. As a paid symbol for Tea Party now she is out there to solicit for funding to raise cash for struggling republican campaigns. The Tea Party, while a worthy and valid movement is still loosely disorganized and being manipulated as smokescreen by slick California-based Republican consulting firms. A public memo came out which admitted that the Tea Party was a way to get rich. Oh, that's right, since that memo comes from the media it's all part of the left-wing conspiracy too.

To answer your question, how's that hopey-changey thing working for 'ya? Not bad at all, thanks to those left wing extremist the economy is recovering well now, and Wall Street DOW continues to climb higher. That certainly good for my 401k, Also, on Thursday, Republican California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger announced his commitment and support of the national healthcare reform bill. He says that it is a good bill, but what does a 2nd term republican governor know (who did not quit) when compared to Sarah Palin, who has so much more experience. So much for the "death panels" that Sarah Palin frequently mention, you aspire to so well.
Yes On A

Vallejo, CA

#18 May 2, 2010
Family Man:

Take a pill. You're hyperventilating. You post the same thing three times. How insecure can one get?

Didn't mention Palin, NEVER watch FOX, and Arnold is a traitor to the GOP.(99% of the popular media is worthless ... or didn't you understand my earlier point)

Here's what I did ask: do you have a smart meter at home? How does your usage compare before/after its installation?

Calm down. The Chinese don't own us yet!
California Screamin

United States

#19 May 2, 2010
Wow.

How did we go from PG&E to some kind of Palin Derangement Syndrome?

What a stretch that was.

That's pretty acrobatic. It takes some real talent to twist something that far.

Try and stay on topic people.

PG&E. Smart Meter.

Cuing the inevitable flaming race war that always erupts on these threads no matter what the topix are in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

Try to stay on topic folks.
Family Man

Santa Clara, CA

#20 May 2, 2010
Yes On A wrote:
Family Man:
Take a pill. You're hyperventilating. You post the same thing three times. How insecure can one get?
Didn't mention Palin, NEVER watch FOX, and Arnold is a traitor to the GOP.(99% of the popular media is worthless ... or didn't you understand my earlier point)
Here's what I did ask: do you have a smart meter at home? How does your usage compare before/after its installation?
Calm down. The Chinese don't own us yet!
It is bad enough you have no supporting article which defends PGE position. Now you are a person who quote Palin "How's that hopey-changey thing working for 'ya?", and use Fox metaphors all the while acting ignorant of what you say. The road to rational conversion means consistency in what we say and do. You are taunting me here, playing a game. This conversation serves no useful purpose.

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