Bruce Deile

Shelton, WA

#1 Jun 12, 2014
Note below the concept "a degree of perfection"-- AA teaching God desires us to have only a degree of perfection. This is quite reasonable. However, it then goes on to say: "..But in no case does He render us white as snow and keep us that way without our cooperation". Which is a false implication. That concept implies the only reason we are not rendered white as snow and kept that way by God is due to our non-cooperation. Thus it is our fault. But no human mortal has ever been rendered white as snow, ever been made perfect, and of course AA emphasizes that elsewhere, obfuscating this teaching that can induce false guilt. That happens throughout AA literature--noticeable once you begin to look for it. Also, it was the Serenity Prayer author, Protestant theologian Reinhold Niebuhr, who often emphasized how no human has ever been completely free of original sin.

As Bill Sees It p.204:

"Since most of us are born with an abundance of natural desires,
it isn't strange that we often let these far exceed their intended purpose.
When they drive us blindly, or we willfully demand that they supply us
with more satisfactions or pleasures than are possible or due us, that
is the point at which we depart from the degree of perfection that God
wishes for us here on earth. That is the measure of our character
defects, or, if you wish, of our sins."
"If we ask, God will certainly forgive our derelictions. But in no case
does He render us white as snow and keep us that way without our cooperation.
That is something we are supposed to be willing to work
toward ourselves. He asks only that we try as best we know how to make
progress in the building of character."
Bruce Deile

Shelton, WA

#3 Jun 16, 2014
Love this one (title translates online "It should not be"):

Jocelyne Jocya

"Il ne fallait pas"

YouTube
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#4 Jul 15, 2014
Post #2 removed. This has been happening often with my posts--nothing wrong with them at all--no reason for removal.
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#5 Jul 15, 2014
See this thread in full on Anchorage Topix under same title to get post (s) removed here (hopefully they don't get removed form there now); they provide more detail....
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#6 Jul 16, 2014
Here's what was in post #2 if remembering correctly...

When new in AA, a very influential old-timer (very "quality sobriety"; speaks to standing room only crowds when telling his AA story; great sense of humor; a self described "sage--not guru") told me that circuit AA speaker (a member who is invited to speak at large AA conventions) Bob Earl was boo'd off the stage for sharing psychobabble and not "real AA".
I was stunned to hear that, replying I didn't think that sort of thing occurred in AA, that people were supportive of one another even though there might be disagreements. But no, the oldtimer told me it had occurred and that's what they should have done.

I later considered AA's Big Book stating love and tolerance of others is the code of AA. Yet booing someone off the stage is intolerance in action. Concluded that oldtimer, so influential to myself and others, was actually not touting "real AA" in point of fact.
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#7 Jul 17, 2014
Also, had mentioned in post #2 about Chateaubriand's 'Atalya' not being told her sin could be officially pardoned (by the Catholic Church--'Atalya' written in 1827 I think) until *after* she had taken the poison. Very interesting the harm that can occur due to false or misunderstood teachings.
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#8 Jul 17, 2014
This is a cool sounding song--great album cover--

Miranda Martino 'L'Ultima Appuntamento" (F.Migliacci - L. Enriquez)(1964)

video by Aniello Salatiello
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#9 Jul 17, 2014
That's awesome--love Miranda Martino--she has great videos on YouTube--just listened again--that's a really good one. Love her face on the album cover. Funny.
Bruce Deile

United States

#10 Jul 18, 2014
An AA Conference Approved pamphlet, I thought it was just a saying in AA, that "there are no musts in AA". False. The Big Book alone has at least 55, some state online 103 musts contained in it. I haven't counted them but spoke in a meeting recently pointing out the part in the Big Book-- "Every day is a day when we must carry a vision of God's will into all of our activities"-- is impossible--that not even Trappist monks in a monastery could do that. Explained it was part of the reason I threw the Big Book against the wall in frustration in early sobriety when my sponsor had me reading pgs. 83-87 morning and evening everyday for three months. Finally figured out, with 29 years of sobriety today--July 18--it was the absolutism and perfectionism that was causing the false guilt and anger. Nothing wrong with absolutism in and of itself necessarily, but it most certainly can induce false guilt when applied in ways such as AA does.
Bruce Deile

United States

#11 Jul 18, 2014
Just picked up that pamphlet yesterday at a meeting, don't have the title right now, it's out in the vehicle. But it explicitly says there are no musts in AA. P.35 of As Bill Sees It says people are not coerced in AA. But they most certainly are when court ordered, and especially so when forced to get a sponsor (a parolee had to have his slip signed showing his parole officer he actually had a sponsor--meaning he had to prove he was not just attending the meetings but actually working the program). That's not merely "cooperation with the professional community", its collusion with the state; corrections.
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#12 Jul 19, 2014
The title of that AA Conference Approved pamphlet that states "there are no musts in AA" is titled 'This is AA: an introduction into the AA recovery program'; again, AA is filled with musts--that statement is simply not true.
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#13 Jul 19, 2014
This is great! Cocky Mazzetti has a really good "Perche Perche", just happened across this one when viewing her videos; looks like its Stelvia Ciani singing this one, hadn't heard of her, sounds much like Cocky Mazzetti's...

Stelvia Ciani --Perche Perche (1963)

video by Nicola Pezzela

--great album cover with Stelvia in the swimsuit; "The twelve greatest hits San Remo festival 1963"

Love these 1950's/1960's San Remo
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#14 Jul 19, 2014
Oh wow! Fabulous....Stelvia Ciani...just found her...here's another one:

Stelvia Ciani "Tutti noi giovani Ciani 1964"

video by Aniello Salatiello

--Beautiful, beautiful song!
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#15 Jul 19, 2014
Too disappointing...not much appears on Youtube of Stelvia Ciani--maybe 5-6 videos or so. here's another really good one:

Stelvia Ciani "Non costa niente"

video by Nicola Pezzela
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#16 Jul 19, 2014
Not much info comes up on Google or Wiki (or even Italian wiki) about Stelvia Ciani...here';s another good one:

Stelvia Ciani solo un'ora

video by anthony tonyitalpopcorn
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#17 Jul 19, 2014
A few of the songs didn't capture me, but at least 3-4 really did; again this one is excellent, and I was the first to view this one--it was posted only yesterday--July 18--and said "no views" under it--never had that happen before--the first viewee....

Stelvia Ciani "Tutto Noi Giovani (Arc 4031 Lato B) 1964

video by Roberto Zucconi
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#18 Jul 19, 2014
lol...I love these kinds of songs...just found this:

Anna Maria "Acqua Passati Rossi Vassallo 1963"

video by Aniello Salatiello
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#19 Jul 19, 2014
Hilarious...

AnnaMaria "Parise come ti chiami 1965"

video by ildiscollezionista

--that album cover cracks me up!
Bruce Deile

Astoria, OR

#20 Jul 23, 2014
Fabulous:

Maria Paris

Te Sto Aspettano Video Da Zi Teresa Anni 60..avi

video by Toto' da Palermo Salvatore

---brings to mind Lucienne Boyer....

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