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Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66710 Feb 2, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah. I dont have live TV. My source of amusement this weekend has been the Chris Christie flame out.
Do you think he'll resign or get forced out? The odds are looking pretty good.

Have you been catching Job Stewarts take on it? I believe you can watch that online.

Also, the HuffPost has a bunch of banned Super Bowl commercials that you can watch from their site. Pretty funny stuff.

Who needs live TV anymore?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66711 Feb 2, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think he'll resign or get forced out? The odds are looking pretty good.
Have you been catching Job Stewarts take on it? I believe you can watch that online.
Also, the HuffPost has a bunch of banned Super Bowl commercials that you can watch from their site. Pretty funny stuff.
Who needs live TV anymore?
I think he will ultimately resign, but not until impeachment process is well underway. Its obvious to me at least that he has no grip on reality. I mean, did you see the memo he sent out to impugn his "friend"? Totally vindictive. Better off saying nothing.

Have watched a little Stewart lately. My favorite was his take down of the Republican response to the State of the Union.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66712 Feb 2, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I gave you from the Jewish perspectives a few examples a while ago. They tend to be of the nonduality perspective. Hasidic approaches, kabbalistic approaches, reconstructionist approaches. From the nonJewish perspective, Zen Bhuddism.....
I define religion as a human response to a calling (or yearning). Religion is a behavior not just a thought process. Philosophy is a system of thought.
Right, and I posted the correct definition of the word religion.

Now I remember.

You're making up your own definition for the word.

No wonder I'm confused.

This is why we have a supposedly common language, until someone
decides to call up down.

By your definition, young men going out to bars at night to seek
women - that would be a religion. Some might agree. I think we've
all had that calling.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66713 Feb 2, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I keep telling you, grasshopper, that I dont believe in an entity. I am not a theist. I do believe in an interconnectiveness of things, and afford that "Being" status out of respect for language. Its more a process than a noun, but noun language comes in handy. Think of it this way. What are you? A collection of cells AND bacteria(other beings). What is God? A collection of people, places, and things, in process. What is my evidence? Who knows? All I know is how the outside "world" relates to me, and how I relate back. Thats a feeling, not a thought.
You wrote:

>....And, like I said before, its not that I know of such an "object", what I can relate to is how it relates to me, in the same way I know you from my relationship to you. I dont know the real you.......

So you compared whatever it is you pray to, to me. Hence again, my confusion.

You don't pray to anything in particular? You pray to everything? You don't really believe in anything? But you believe it's all connected, so you kind of pray to that idea?

May I remind you again that "a process" is actually "a noun."

What I hear is that you really don't believe in god.

It's ok to say so.

Why go to temple.? You can do what you do on your own.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66714 Feb 2, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is a definition of religion that reflects my views
I know there are many other definitions, but my point is that IS fair game to move beyond the "system of belief" definition that you provided earlier, if one chooses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion#Definit...
In his book The Varieties of Religious Experience, the psychologist William James defined religion as "the feelings, acts, and experiences of individual men in their solitude, so far as they apprehend themselves to stand in relation to whatever they may consider the divine".[31] By the term "divine" James meant "any object that is godlike, whether it be a concrete deity or not"[32] to which the individual feels impelled to respond with solemnity and gravity.[33]
That's not what divine means. It connotes god.

Full Definition of DIVINE

1

a : of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god <divine love>

b : being a deity <the divine Savior>

c : directed to a deity <divine worship>

Why use the word religion if you don't believe in god.

Why even count yourself a follower of Judaism?

It seems what you really value is meditation.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66715 Feb 2, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
To change the subject (and lighten the mood a bit) is anyone planning on watching the Super Bowl tonight? I used to watch it strictly for the commercials - funny stuff....though this time I have some skin in the game since I entered an office pool.
I'm disillusioned at half-time. 22 zip.

I wanted the Broncos to win. 37 year old QB vs 25 year old punk who has plenty of time.

Also Seattle seems cocky!

Stopped watching but I'll check back.

Watching Anthony Bourdain in Denmark!

Good luck with the bet.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#66716 Feb 2, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I gave you from the Jewish perspectives a few examples a while ago. They tend to be of the nonduality perspective. Hasidic approaches, kabbalistic approaches, reconstructionist approaches. From the nonJewish perspective, Zen Bhuddism.....
I define religion as a human response to a calling (or yearning). Religion is a behavior not just a thought process. Philosophy is a system of thought.
Got a new favourite show -- "Venture Bros"

Imagine Jonny Quest if it was written and directed by John Waters and Sam Peckinpah ... freakin' awesome.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66717 Feb 3, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
You wrote:
>....And, like I said before, its not that I know of such an "object", what I can relate to is how it relates to me, in the same way I know you from my relationship to you. I dont know the real you.......
So you compared whatever it is you pray to, to me. Hence again, my confusion.
You don't pray to anything in particular? You pray to everything? You don't really believe in anything? But you believe it's all connected, so you kind of pray to that idea?
May I remind you again that "a process" is actually "a noun."
What I hear is that you really don't believe in god.
It's ok to say so.
Yes I can compare you to "the divine" in a way. In both cases I dont know the real you, what I know is how you relate to me, which boils down to my EXPERIENCE of you, not the essence of you,(which btw isnt really you anyhow, being that a large percentage of you is bacteria)

To me, God is more a process, but I relate to it as a static being for the purpose of prayer, being that this makes more sense at the time (temporary illusion for the sake of understanding the limits of language). A process becomes a noun when you speak ABOUT it. But its essense (so to speak) is flux.

If I was going to construct a theology of God, i.e. force it into a system of thought and beliefs, then I would borrow from the nondual and perhaps panentheistic approaches.

For the zillionith time, I tend not to be a theist,. So I dont believe in an external God in the sky. Which is what you mean, from a Christian perspective, when you say God.

But there are other models of god out there.
former res wrote:
<quoted text>Why go to temple.? You can do what you do on your own.
Its a mitzvah to pray with others. Let alone the other obvious benefits

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66718 Feb 3, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not what divine means. It connotes god.
Full Definition of DIVINE
1
a : of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god <divine love>
b : being a deity <the divine Savior>
c : directed to a deity <divine worship>
.
You are hung up on theism. Its ok, its probably your Christian background.

Someday if you get the opportunity, you should learn more about the systems of about Yoga, martial arts, or zen bhuddism,

That said, I offered a definition that was more in synch with my belief system. I didnt even invent it, I adopted it from Hasidic and post-Hasidic thought - primarily the work of AJ Heschel - probably one of the most famous Jewish theologians of the 20th century.

Then I found a nice Christian man who essentially said the same thing.

You dont have to agree with it - but I offered it just to show I am not out on a limb on any of this.



“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66719 Feb 3, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, and I posted the correct definition of the word religion.
Now I remember.
You're making up your own definition for the word.
No wonder I'm confused.
This is why we have a supposedly common language, until someone
decides to call up down.
By your definition, young men going out to bars at night to seek
women - that would be a religion. Some might agree. I think we've
all had that calling.
Again, I posted sources.

You need to get out more often and speak or study with others.

Here is another source from a Jewish perspective. Kind of heavy - but since you brought up the topic. His basic thesis - Evolution is God. Then he backs it up with Jewish sources.

http://www.amazon.com/Radical-Judaism-Rethink...

And here is an article comparing some forms of Bhuddism with Hasidic thought
http://realitysandwich.com/47710/nonduality_b...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66720 Feb 3, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>

Why even count yourself a follower of Judaism?
It seems what you really value is meditation.
Now you are sounding like Hughbe

I find it arrogant that you are telling me what a follower of Judaism should be. Especially since I have been posting sources for the last few days to show that I am far from out on a limb

----------

Some housekeeping: back to religion definition. I mentioned this point earlier. Your definition of religion is steeped in Christian western tradition. Therefore I have no problem critiquing it, and asserting it that it is not always applicable. Its NOT the only definition out there.

Another example - the oft Christian error, of labeling Judaism as "a faith".

Its not.

However, many Jews accept that definition in polite society because they want to go with the flow and not offend their host society. Faith is purely a Christian idea. In Hebrew we dont even have a word for faith, the closest word we have is "emunah" which has a slightly difference shade of meaning. And,. as I posted before our closest word for religion (Ha dat - the law) doesnt even consider the concept of faith.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66721 Feb 3, 2014
To whoever is judging me, I bless you!

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66722 Feb 3, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
Got a new favourite show -- "Venture Bros"
Imagine Jonny Quest if it was written and directed by John Waters and Sam Peckinpah ... freakin' awesome.
will look it up
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66723 Feb 3, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I can compare you to "the divine" in a way. In both cases I dont know the real you, what I know is how you relate to me, which boils down to my EXPERIENCE of you, not the essence of you,(which btw isnt really you anyhow, being that a large percentage of you is bacteria)
Most of both of us is water, but I wouldn't consider that to be our essence.
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
For the zillionith time, I tend not to be a theist,. So I dont believe in an external God in the sky. Which is what you mean, from a Christian perspective, when you say God.
Don't forget Judaism. The god concepts exists there. I didn't make it up.

Did you agree that man created god? I forget.
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Its a mitzvah to pray with others. Let alone the other obvious benefits
And you wonder why we keep coming back to god:

In its primary meaning, the Hebrew word mitzvah ("commandment", &#1502;&#1460;&#15 10;&#1456;&#1493;& #1464;&#1492;,[mit&#86 5;s&#712;va], Biblical: mi&#7779;wah; plural &#1502;&#1460;&#15 10;&#1456;&#1493;& #1493;&#1465;&#1514; mitzvot [mit&#865;s&#712;vot], Biblical: mi&#7779;woth; from &#1510;&#1460;&#14 93;&#1464;&#1468;& #1492; &#7779;iwwah "command") refers to precepts and commandments as commanded by God. It is a word used in Judaism to refer to the 613 commandments given in the Torah (at Mount Sinai, where all the Jews accepted the Torah, saying "We will do, and we will listen") and the seven rabbinic commandments instituted later for a total of 620. According to the teachings of Judaism, all moral laws are, or are derived from, divine commandments.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66724 Feb 3, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are hung up on theism. Its ok, its probably your Christian background.
Someday if you get the opportunity, you should learn more about the systems of about Yoga, martial arts, or zen bhuddism,
That said, I offered a definition that was more in synch with my belief system. I didnt even invent it, I adopted it from Hasidic and post-Hasidic thought - primarily the work of AJ Heschel - probably one of the most famous Jewish theologians of the 20th century.
Then I found a nice Christian man who essentially said the same thing.
You dont have to agree with it - but I offered it just to show I am not out on a limb on any of this.
As shown above, it's your own language/words that keeps us coming back to god - mitzvah, divine etc.

You won't see many atheists using the word divine.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66725 Feb 3, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

...Some housekeeping: back to religion definition. I mentioned this point earlier. Your definition of religion is steeped in Christian western tradition. Therefore I have no problem critiquing it, and asserting it that it is not always applicable. Its NOT the only definition out there.
Another example - the oft Christian error, of labeling Judaism as "a faith".
Its not.
However, many Jews accept that definition in polite society because they want to go with the flow and not offend their host society. Faith is purely a Christian idea. In Hebrew we dont even have a word for faith, the closest word we have is "emunah" which has a slightly difference shade of meaning. And,. as I posted before our closest word for religion (Ha dat - the law) doesnt even consider the concept of faith.
A while back I once again posted the "What Jews believe" points and asked you which you believe in. One was belief in god. The first one I think.

In order to believe in god I posit requires faith. Do you agree?

Though I also stated that each and every participant need not believe in 100% of the scripture. Same with cafeteria Catholics.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66726 Feb 3, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of both of us is water, but I wouldn't consider that to be our essence.
<quoted text>
Don't forget Judaism. The god concepts exists there. I didn't make it up.
Did you agree that man created god? I forget.
<quoted text>
And you wonder why we keep coming back to god:
In its primary meaning, the Hebrew word mitzvah ("commandment", &#1502;&#1460;&#15 10;&#1456;&#1493;& #1464;&#1492;,[mit&#86 5;s&#712;va], Biblical: mi&#7779;wah; plural &#1502;&#1460;&#15 10;&#1456;&#1493;& #1493;&#1465;&#1514; mitzvot [mit&#865;s&#712;vot], Biblical: mi&#7779;woth; from &#1510;&#1460;&#14 93;&#1464;&#1468;& #1492; &#7779;iwwah "command") refers to precepts and commandments as commanded by God. It is a word used in Judaism to refer to the 613 commandments given in the Torah (at Mount Sinai, where all the Jews accepted the Torah, saying "We will do, and we will listen") and the seven rabbinic commandments instituted later for a total of 620. According to the teachings of Judaism, all moral laws are, or are derived from, divine commandments.
Never asserted that Judaism lacked God. Only that there were multiple perspectives on the concept

Straw argument dismissed

Man creates Godtalk certainly

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66727 Feb 3, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
As shown above, it's your own language/words that keeps us coming back to god - mitzvah, divine etc.
You won't see many atheists using the word divine.
Why do I care what words Atheists use?

We are talking about religious expressions.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66728 Feb 3, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you are sounding like Hughbe
I find it arrogant that you are telling me what a follower of Judaism should be. Especially since I have been posting sources for the last few days to show that I am far from out on a limb ......
This I shouldn't do and perhaps it is out of frustration.

One the one hand you say you don't believe in god, but on the other you say that everything (evolution, the interconnectedness of everything etc) is god. So even if you do, how can you be wrong?! It gets to be like herding cats for a guy like me who is actually trying to follow you.

Then when I ask you why go to Temple you refer back to a set of rules that invokes god.

Perhaps I have it backwards. That you do believe in god but just don't want to admit it.

Or maybe we should just leave it alone.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66729 Feb 3, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Never asserted that Judaism lacked God. Only that there were multiple perspectives on the concept
Straw argument dismissed
Man creates Godtalk certainly
Why a straw man when you gave it as a reason to go to temple?

Did man create god?

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