Did you vote today?

Did you vote today?

Created by Rick on Jun 8, 2010

6,304 votes

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Reality Check

Camden, AR

#25767 Jul 10, 2013
Hakawati wrote:
Why? They are not talking to the people. The people are not talking to them. Why vote on any bill unless you have read it? Why vote "yes" on one if you haven't read it? The person lies to get elected than is not punished for spending your social security and medicare money on anything you were not asked about. Vote? For what? It doesn't mean anything at all.
The Democrats DO know what's in the bill and they always cry "WE NEED TO PASS THIS BILL NOW OR WE'RE HEADED FOR DISASTER!!!" They don't want to give anyone time to read the bills because, if people were allowed to read and comprehend these bills, they know there would be little chance of any of them passing. That being said, the idiot Republicans simply follow suit for fear of losing support for not voting for such a critical bill. More than likely, the establishment Republicans also know what's in these bills. They are just looking out for #1. But hey, we keep voting them in office so maybe we're the idiots. Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. What ever happened to fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me?
MOPAR

Ash Flat, AR

#25768 Jul 10, 2013
Reality Check wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the 1.6 billion we loaned to the old Chrysler which is now in bankruptcy? With the U.S. Government still owning 1/3 of GM and an outstanding balance of $850 million on a $1 Billion loan yet to be repaid, I wouldn't get too excited yet. Lastly, both GM and Chrysler went through restructuring bankruptcy. Why would they have needed to do that if the bailouts were so great? I can tell you one thing, if I was given billions of dollars, my business would be healthy too.
What makes you think Chrysler is in bankruptcy?
Besides, originally, the government committed a total of $12.5 billion dollars under the Bush Adm. to Chry.

Since: Jun 12

Detroit City

#25769 Jul 10, 2013
Reality Check wrote:
<quoted text>
If you gave my company billions it would be worth billions as well. If my company got in trouble, would there be a bailout for me? NO. I would have to go through restructuring bankruptcy (Chapter 11) or out of business bankruptcy (Chapter 7). Either way, there would be no help for me. Why are 2 of the big 3 any different? Because they employ so many people? There have been many large corporations go out of business without help. Bear Stearns had contracts of $13 billion and 15,000 employees world wide. Certainly a larger financial stake than GM and Chrysler combined and 15,000 lost jobs is nothing to sneeze at. They conducted shady business and there was no one there to help when they got in trouble. Circuit City had $1.6 billion in annual revenue, 567 superstores, and employed over 20,000 people. Why didn't they get any help? Freidman's Jewlers had over 600 locations and millions in sales. Where was the help for them? All of these companies went out of business because of bad business practices. Is that any different than GM and Chrysler letting the unions gouge them and run their business in the ground? No, it's not. The bailouts to GM and Chrysler were no more than a political gift to the large auto unions that was hyped as a country saving necessity. It wasn't. GM and Chrysler should have gone under. Bailing them out all but insures that they will get in trouble again sometime in the future knowing there will be some politician out there crying gloom and doom for America if we don't "save those jobs". Ford was the only one smart enough to realize the trap of government handouts so they paid their bailout back before they used much if any because they weren't in trouble in the first place.
This give you a clue??????????

A study by the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor estimated that the failure of Chrysler LLC, Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp. would eliminate up to 3 million jobs, including those at parts suppliers and smaller businesses that rely on the automakers.

State, local and federal governments would lose more than $150 billion in tax revenue over three years, the study said.
diseases U get

Ravenden, AR

#25770 Jul 10, 2013
Oneford wrote:
<quoted text>
Better get yourself a crystal ball, this is the second post in a row you have not understood.
You better get a new a$$ yhey ripped you a new one ! Butt hurt!
Reality Check

Camden, AR

#25771 Jul 10, 2013
MOPAR wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes you think Chrysler is in bankruptcy?
Besides, originally, the government committed a total of $12.5 billion dollars under the Bush Adm. to Chry.
I didn't say they were currently in bankruptcy. They filed Chapter 11 in 2009 in order to be restructured. Then they sold out. On June 10, 2009 an entity known as The New Chrysler Group bought Chrysler from Chrysler LLC for $6.6 billion which was financed by the American tax payers (U.S. government). Initially, the percentages of equity ownership in Chrysler Group LLC are: Fiat, 20%, U.S. government (Us the taxpayers) 9.85%, Canadian government, 2.46%, and the UAW retiree medical fund 67.69%. This makes the $12.5 billion strengthen my argument that they should have simply been allowed to go under.
Reality Check

Camden, AR

#25772 Jul 10, 2013
Oneford wrote:
<quoted text>
This give you a clue??????????
A study by the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor estimated that the failure of Chrysler LLC, Ford Motor Co. and General Motors Corp. would eliminate up to 3 million jobs, including those at parts suppliers and smaller businesses that rely on the automakers.
State, local and federal governments would lose more than $150 billion in tax revenue over three years, the study said.
I already knew the numbers. Doesn't change the fact that they should have been allowed to go under. Another, or a host of automakers, who weren't so reckless with their businesses, would have picked up the pieces and we would have ended up with stronger and more stable companies than we had before. Jobs would have been saved and wages would have come down to more sustainable levels like those of Nissan. America would have been better for it. It would have forced us to change our labor laws to a more healthy, business-friendly model. You can't argue that these American staple companies would have been owned by foreign companies because 20% Chrysler is already owned by Fiat and that's with our All-American bailouts. It would be a mute point to argue that but I'm sure you'll try. It didn't happen that way so it really doesn't matter at this point anyway.

Since: Jun 12

Detroit City

#25773 Jul 10, 2013
Reality Check wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say they were currently in bankruptcy. They filed Chapter 11 in 2009 in order to be restructured. Then they sold out. On June 10, 2009 an entity known as The New Chrysler Group bought Chrysler from Chrysler LLC for $6.6 billion which was financed by the American tax payers (U.S. government). Initially, the percentages of equity ownership in Chrysler Group LLC are: Fiat, 20%, U.S. government (Us the taxpayers) 9.85%, Canadian government, 2.46%, and the UAW retiree medical fund 67.69%. This makes the $12.5 billion strengthen my argument that they should have simply been allowed to go under.


Reality Check wrote:

<quoted text>
What about the 1.6 billion we loaned to the old Chrysler which is now in bankruptcy?
I did

United States

#25774 Jul 10, 2013
I always vote

Since: Jun 12

Detroit City

#25775 Jul 10, 2013
Reality Check wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say they were currently in bankruptcy. They filed Chapter 11 in 2009 in order to be restructured. Then they sold out. On June 10, 2009 an entity known as The New Chrysler Group bought Chrysler from Chrysler LLC for $6.6 billion which was financed by the American tax payers (U.S. government). Initially, the percentages of equity ownership in Chrysler Group LLC are: Fiat, 20%, U.S. government (Us the taxpayers) 9.85%, Canadian government, 2.46%, and the UAW retiree medical fund 67.69%. This makes the $12.5 billion strengthen my argument that they should have simply been allowed to go under.
Do a little research before you post, not after, and read more than the first paragraph. Let me make this simple for you,

On July 21, 2011, Fiat bought the Chrysler shares held by the United States Treasury.

Fiat gained majority ownership and control of Chrysler.

The United States government's involvement in the Chrysler bankruptcy cost $1.3 billion not 12.5

That weaken your argument by 11.2 billion reasons.

Since: Jun 12

Detroit City

#25776 Jul 10, 2013
Reality Check wrote:
<quoted text>
I already knew the numbers. Doesn't change the fact that they should have been allowed to go under. Another, or a host of automakers, who weren't so reckless with their businesses, would have picked up the pieces and we would have ended up with stronger and more stable companies than we had before. Jobs would have been saved and wages would have come down to more sustainable levels like those of Nissan. America would have been better for it. It would have forced us to change our labor laws to a more healthy, business-friendly model. You can't argue that these American staple companies would have been owned by foreign companies because 20% Chrysler is already owned by Fiat and that's with our All-American bailouts. It would be a mute point to argue that but I'm sure you'll try. It didn't happen that way so it really doesn't matter at this point anyway.
Do you really think the UAW workers and UAW retirees came out of that bankruptcy without paying a price in lower wages and benefits themselves? Is that what you really think, REALLY? As I have pointed out already , Chrysler is now a foreign company unless you think Fiat is a American company.
Before you say what an auto worker should make per hour, may I suggest you put your ass on that assembly line in a plant so loud that you cannot here yourself think and do the same job every min. to 45 sec for 40 hrs. a week on a concrete floor, then tell me WTF you should make in salary. Better yet after 30 years of that they tell you, sorry oh-boy you are only going get half of those benefits you worked your ass off for the last 30 years. Now when you put yourself in those shoes you can tell me about what you know is best for the Auto Worker.

Reality Check

Camden, AR

#25778 Jul 10, 2013
Oneford wrote:
<quoted text>
Reality Check wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the 1.6 billion we loaned to the old Chrysler which is now in bankruptcy?
Didn't mean to say that but that's what I said so one for you. Does that mean the bankruptcy never happened since I said it wrong? I'm not up on the liberal rules of made up realities so I'll rely on you to clarify it.
Reality Check

Camden, AR

#25779 Jul 10, 2013
Oneford wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think the UAW workers and UAW retirees came out of that bankruptcy without paying a price in lower wages and benefits themselves? Is that what you really think, REALLY? As I have pointed out already , Chrysler is now a foreign company unless you think Fiat is a American company.
Before you say what an auto worker should make per hour, may I suggest you put your ass on that assembly line in a plant so loud that you cannot here yourself think and do the same job every min. to 45 sec for 40 hrs. a week on a concrete floor, then tell me WTF you should make in salary. Better yet after 30 years of that they tell you, sorry oh-boy you are only going get half of those benefits you worked your ass off for the last 30 years. Now when you put yourself in those shoes you can tell me about what you know is best for the Auto Worker.
I never said that the UAW came out unscathed. I said that if they were allowed to go under, the companies that absorbed them would bring the worker's wages back to a sustainable level like the union wages Nissan pays. Here is the breakdown of who now owns the old Chrysler LLC. Fiat, 20%, U.S. government (Us the taxpayers) 9.85%, Canadian government, 2.46%, and the UAW retiree medical fund 67.69%. I only pointed out that a foreign company (Fiat) now owns 20% of Chrysler. As for wages, while the line workers make between $28-$32 per hour base pay on 40hrs per week which is pretty darn good ($58K-$67K per yr), the UAW retired workers also get hourly wages for life which kicks the average per hour amount to between $70-$80 per hr or $145K-$166K annually. So please cry me a river. They tell them they are only getting half the benefits, well that's still better than 90% of working Americans get so again, no sympathy here. I don't care what's best for the American auto worker, I care about the big 3 running their business in such a manner as to not have to take money out of the pockets of equally hard working Americans that make considerably less than the lowest of UAW workers for no better reason than poor business practices. They haven't lived within their means as a company and now you, me, and every other taxpayer has had to bail them out for no more than a political stunt.

Since: Jun 12

Detroit City

#25780 Jul 10, 2013
Reality Check wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't mean to say that but that's what I said so one for you. Does that mean the bankruptcy never happened since I said it wrong? I'm not up on the liberal rules of made up realities so I'll rely on you to clarify it.
No doubt it happen, and the US Treasury had a an loss of 1.3 billion dollars.

In 2011 Chrysler Group LLC had a revenue of 41.946 billion dollars, and 51,623 employees.

How much of that 1.3 billion did the US recoup in taxes in 2011 alone?

1.3 looks like a good investment to me, And I have to give sole credit to George W Bush for that particular loan.

Reality Check

Lonoke, AR

#25781 Jul 10, 2013
Oneford wrote:
<quoted text>
No doubt it happen, and the US Treasury had a an loss of 1.3 billion dollars.
In 2011 Chrysler Group LLC had a revenue of 41.946 billion dollars, and 51,623 employees.
How much of that 1.3 billion did the US recoup in taxes in 2011 alone?
1.3 looks like a good investment to me, And I have to give sole credit to George W Bush for that particular loan.
As a liberal, you would think it a good investment. It doesn't matter who was in charge, it was a bad loan. That money should have stayed in the pockets of those who earned it and let them spend it where they may. The sales tax alone from goods purchased would be staggering not to mention those who would have started their own business or increased the business they already owned with the money they had to give to GM and Chrysler. Your assumption is that 100% of the profit Chrysler made came as a result of the bailout. It didn't. All that bailout money allowed Chrysler to do is pay off debt that was killing their company. With the debt paid off, the money being used as payments suddenly became profit. The cars Chrysler made always brought a profit, just not enough to pay their debt. Chrysler's business practices were so bad that they sold for $0.29 on the dollar less than a year after getting the bailouts. IT WAS A BAD LOAN.
no name

Ashburn, VA

#25782 Jul 10, 2013
Oneford wrote:
<quoted text>
Better get yourself a crystal ball, this is the second post in a row you have not understood.
me thinkest thou art the artist formerly known as Barney 1, 2,and 3, and MILK, at least I hope there isn't anyone else out there with such a small and narrow mind.
Articulation skills as well as a lucid mind will help you clarify some of these goofy ramblings.
Oh, who am I kidding? Your mind has been so trained and programmed to repeat propaganda and rhetoric, there's not a lucid or original thought left in your old think tank!
lol

Oklahoma City, OK

#25783 Jul 11, 2013
Agree

Since: Jun 12

Detroit City

#25784 Jul 11, 2013
no name wrote:
<quoted text>
me thinkest thou art the artist formerly known as Barney 1, 2,and 3, and MILK, at least I hope there isn't anyone else out there with such a small and narrow mind.
Articulation skills as well as a lucid mind will help you clarify some of these goofy ramblings.
Oh, who am I kidding? Your mind has been so trained and programmed to repeat propaganda and rhetoric, there's not a lucid or original thought left in your old think tank!
Me thinkest thou has gotten their mouth full of sour grapes, side effect of having been embarrassed to many times by Barney 1, 2,and 3, and MILK.

Since: Jun 12

Detroit City

#25785 Jul 11, 2013
Reality Check wrote:
<quoted text>
As a liberal, you would think it a good investment. It doesn't matter who was in charge, it was a bad loan. That money should have stayed in the pockets of those who earned it and let them spend it where they may. The sales tax alone from goods purchased would be staggering not to mention those who would have started their own business or increased the business they already owned with the money they had to give to GM and Chrysler. Your assumption is that 100% of the profit Chrysler made came as a result of the bailout. It didn't. All that bailout money allowed Chrysler to do is pay off debt that was killing their company. With the debt paid off, the money being used as payments suddenly became profit. The cars Chrysler made always brought a profit, just not enough to pay their debt. Chrysler's business practices were so bad that they sold for $0.29 on the dollar less than a year after getting the bailouts. IT WAS A BAD LOAN.
Chrysler did not sell for .29 cents on the dollar. Its senior lenders received $2 billion, or about .29 cents on the dollar of the debt currently owed by Chrysler in BK.

Some 90 percent of the company's senior lenders were reportedly in support of the deal.

Here is the BK judge own words why he approved the deal;

Gonzalez cited the public interest as one of the reasons to move ahead with the sale. Because the billions of dollars in loans from the two governments, keeping the company alive it was decided that this course of action was the best opportunity for some repayment.

And five trillion has been paid back of TARP funds.
Propaganda GOP Style

Ash Flat, AR

#25786 Jul 11, 2013
no name wrote:
<quoted text>
me thinkest thou art the artist formerly known as Barney 1, 2,and 3, and MILK, at least I hope there isn't anyone else out there with such a small and narrow mind.
Articulation skills as well as a lucid mind will help you clarify some of these goofy ramblings.
Oh, who am I kidding? Your mind has been so trained and programmed to repeat propaganda and rhetoric, there's not a lucid or original thought left in your old think tank!
Food-Aid Foolery

Posted on July 10, 2013


To learn a bit about how partisans create false political propaganda, take a few moments to study what’s behind this headline:“More People Getting Government Food than Actually Working.”

That claim — appearing on the conservative GOPUSA site — is far from true.

The number of adults “actually working” was just under 136 million in April, according to the most recent figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And the number of adults — and children — getting any form of federal food assistance was put at 101 million by a report from the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Inspector General.

In other words, the GOPUSA headline is off by 35 million people. It’s also a false apples-to-fruit-salad comparison and a fallacious dichotomy as well, as we’ll show in a moment.

http://factcheck.org/2013/07/food-aid-foolery...
Reality Check

Camden, AR

#25787 Jul 11, 2013
no name wrote:
<quoted text>
me thinkest thou art the artist formerly known as Barney 1, 2,and 3, and MILK, at least I hope there isn't anyone else out there with such a small and narrow mind.
Articulation skills as well as a lucid mind will help you clarify some of these goofy ramblings.
Oh, who am I kidding? Your mind has been so trained and programmed to repeat propaganda and rhetoric, there's not a lucid or original thought left in your old think tank!
Agreed.

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