Fighting Albemarle Firing Range Plans - NBC29 WVIR Charlottesville, VA News, Sports and Weather

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Albemarle County police aren't budging on plans for a new firing range and training facility.
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41 - 60 of 68 Comments Last updated Jan 16, 2013
Negligent Discharge

Charlottesville, VA

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#43
Nov 12, 2012
 
buyerbeware wrote:
<quoted text>So they use their skills to hold down a second job? If UVa pays them to work JPJ, then what's your complaint? You can't find a second job to match up with your "skills"?
No complaint from me. More power to them. I simply said the police aren't the low paid employees everybody claims in this area. Even a rookie that's not making $50,000 to $60,000 a year is plain downright lazy.
heh wrote:
<quoted text>
he was originally responding to
"Cops don't become cops for the money..."
Correct. Many cops do enter the profession NOW for the money. The money, the benefits package, the retirement, the take-home car, and the power that goes with the badge & gun.
thinking free

Charlottesville, VA

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#44
Nov 12, 2012
 
Negligent Discharge wrote:
<quoted text>
No complaint from me. More power to them. I simply said the police aren't the low paid employees everybody claims in this area. Even a rookie that's not making $50,000 to $60,000 a year is plain downright lazy.
<quoted text>
Correct. Many cops do enter the profession NOW for the money. The money, the benefits package, the retirement, the take-home car, and the power that goes with the badge & gun.
Mostly the badge and the gun, most cops suffer from egos that demand they maintain control all things, and people, around themselves.
Negligent Discharge

Charlottesville, VA

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#45
Nov 12, 2012
 
thinking free wrote:
<quoted text>Backassward thinking.
OK. So explain to me what these people who came to Albemarle County for the piece and quiet are going to do in 25 to 35 years. If you live here you know how fast the area is growing. Nothing is going to slow it down. Just like nothing is going to stop this firing range.

I would like to build a log cabin on top of a mountain in Montana. But if thousands of other people do the same exact thing on the same mountain in Montana, why am I allowed to whine about them?
CvilleGordo

Charlottesville, VA

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#46
Nov 12, 2012
 
LEO wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you kidding me?!?!?!? You need to let me know about this magical police department that pays $70,000, because I will be transfering there tomorrow. You're way off base and maybe you should FOIA how much a cop actually makes before you make assumptions. Not to mention, even if we made $50,000, it's not enough to support a family and own a house in Albemarle. Our benefits are also being cut. And lastly, not every agency that works in Albemarle has overtime opportunities. So please, tell me where i can make these 70g's you refer to...
Orange County.

California.
Dude

Bumpass, VA

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#47
Nov 13, 2012
 
LEO wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you kidding me?!?!?!? You need to let me know about this magical police department that pays $70,000, because I will be transfering there tomorrow. You're way off base and maybe you should FOIA how much a cop actually makes before you make assumptions. Not to mention, even if we made $50,000, it's not enough to support a family and own a house in Albemarle. Our benefits are also being cut. And lastly, not every agency that works in Albemarle has overtime opportunities. So please, tell me where i can make these 70g's you refer to...
Why do you feel entitled to live in Albermarle?
buyerbeware

Charlottesville, VA

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#48
Nov 13, 2012
 
Negligent Discharge wrote:
<quoted text>
No complaint from me. More power to them. I simply said the police aren't the low paid employees everybody claims in this area. Even a rookie that's not making $50,000 to $60,000 a year is plain downright lazy.
<quoted text>
Correct. Many cops do enter the profession NOW for the money. The money, the benefits package, the retirement, the take-home car, and the power that goes with the badge & gun.
But you called it "overtime". It is not. It is a second salary.
Negligent Discharge

Charlottesville, VA

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#49
Nov 13, 2012
 
buyerbeware wrote:
<quoted text>But you called it "overtime". It is not. It is a second salary.
A local cop works their 40 hours a week at the cop shoppe. Often it's more like 45 to 50. That extra 5 to 10 hours is called overtime. They can then work at John Paul Jones Arena, Barnes & Noble, security in the various parking garages, security in several section 8 housing complexs, security in several privately owned apartment complexs, security at automotive Tent Sales, etc... Plus the man hours of overtime funded by numerous grants given to the local police department. They are still in their uniform using their city issued badge and gun. I call it overtime, as most of the cops themselves do. This is America though, you can call any of it anything you prefer. The point remains the same, even a rookie can make $50,000 to $60,000 a year unless he/she is one lazy individual. And let's not forget one more thing either. Even with a $36,000 a year starting salary combined with the benefits package, a rookie is still at $50,000 easily. It's not like any of these people make the same poor salary as the girl that hands you your coffee at the McDonalds drive thru. I would hope most of them appreciate having a good job with a very attractive benefits package. Because there's thousands of employers nationwide cutting employee hours back to 30 or less so they don't have to pay Obamacare.
buyerbeware

Charlottesville, VA

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#50
Nov 13, 2012
 

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Negligent Discharge wrote:
<quoted text>
A local cop works their 40 hours a week at the cop shoppe. Often it's more like 45 to 50. That extra 5 to 10 hours is called overtime. They can then work at John Paul Jones Arena, Barnes & Noble, security in the various parking garages, security in several section 8 housing complexs, security in several privately owned apartment complexs, security at automotive Tent Sales, etc... Plus the man hours of overtime funded by numerous grants given to the local police department. They are still in their uniform using their city issued badge and gun. I call it overtime, as most of the cops themselves do. This is America though, you can call any of it anything you prefer. The point remains the same, even a rookie can make $50,000 to $60,000 a year unless he/she is one lazy individual. And let's not forget one more thing either. Even with a $36,000 a year starting salary combined with the benefits package, a rookie is still at $50,000 easily. It's not like any of these people make the same poor salary as the girl that hands you your coffee at the McDonalds drive thru. I would hope most of them appreciate having a good job with a very attractive benefits package. Because there's thousands of employers nationwide cutting employee hours back to 30 or less so they don't have to pay Obamacare.
As usual, you make wild comparisons. I wouldn't expect the "girl that hands you your coffee at the McDonalds drive thru" to make anything near what a police officer makes or for that matter, what LeBron James makes, so why would you? The skill set is vastly different. As for overtime, look up the definition. If they are working for a different employer, they have to work for that employer more than 40 hours to get "overtime". You can call it what you want, but you are still incorrect. You do make one good point; the result of Obamacare is going to be the screwing of many of the "workers" it professes to benefit.
Negligent Discharge

Charlottesville, VA

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#51
Nov 13, 2012
 
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention the numerous overtime opportunities are BILLED through the police agencies. For example, the John Paul Jones arena is billed for man hours at say $45 an hour by the city or county police departments, and they in turn pay the officers slightly less per hour. This "profit" the police agencies make is done to justify using the police cars and gasoline, insurance rates, wear and tear on uniforms, etc... What the officer ends up getting is still 1 1/2 to 2 times their normal hourly wage.

If this billing and redistribution policy has changed, I am not aware of it.

I think we certainly agree that I call it overtime. And we can certainly agree that you call it "second salaries". The end result is still the same, the cops are not the poorly paid individuals they portray themselves as. Whenever they whine for pay increases before City Council or the Board of Supervisors they only speak of their base salary. They never think to add in the value of their benefits package.
buyerbeware

Charlottesville, VA

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#52
Nov 13, 2012
 

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Negligent Discharge wrote:
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention the numerous overtime opportunities are BILLED through the police agencies. For example, the John Paul Jones arena is billed for man hours at say $45 an hour by the city or county police departments, and they in turn pay the officers slightly less per hour. This "profit" the police agencies make is done to justify using the police cars and gasoline, insurance rates, wear and tear on uniforms, etc... What the officer ends up getting is still 1 1/2 to 2 times their normal hourly wage.
If this billing and redistribution policy has changed, I am not aware of it.
I think we certainly agree that I call it overtime. And we can certainly agree that you call it "second salaries". The end result is still the same, the cops are not the poorly paid individuals they portray themselves as. Whenever they whine for pay increases before City Council or the Board of Supervisors they only speak of their base salary. They never think to add in the value of their benefits package.
That makes a major difference. If UVa CONTRACTS with ACPD to "hire" their officers on their off duty time along with their vehicles, uniforms, etc, it still is not overtime, but additional contracted time. If ACPD "launders" the money before paying their officers, than there is your issue, and if ACPD bills it that way, go after them. You seem to have a lot of "inside" knowledge...disgruntled ex-employee maybe?
Chuck

Ruckersville, VA

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#53
Nov 16, 2012
 
Negligent Discharge wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. Counting the base salary, overtime, and benefits package even a rookie cop can be making anywhere from $50,000 to $60,000, and as much as $70,000 a year. The benefits package itself includes vacation, a rather attractive retirement, health insurance, life insurance, dental plan, take home car, etc... There's plenty of overtime at John Paul Jones and sporting events alone. Those working overtime in private enterprise even get to use the take home car to get to and from (for a small fee). They don't even have to own a car and pay insurance and taxes to work overtime. This myth about police work not paying very well is so 1950s. There's a lot of local cops living in $350,000 and $450,000 homes.
And how many years of Law Enforcement service do you have to be such an expert on this? Outside of the military, how many other jobs do you know that is as dangerous as being a cop AND requires a lot of overtime just so they can make ends meet to be able to live live in the community in which they serve? There is a reason a lot of the LEOs do no live in this county or the city.

It takes a lot of years of service for a local LEO to even come close to the inflated salaries you are posting. Not to mention Police Officers and Deputies are, by Code, never really off duty. Basically, I'm saying your full of crap. And by the way, I have 9-year of Law Enforcement experience myself.
Chuck

Ruckersville, VA

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#54
Nov 16, 2012
 
Mitt did loose wrote:
So this amounted to a backroom deal between officials with too much money to spend and a property owner, what else is new. Once again the average joe gets shafted again by the cops. The bad part, now us taxpayers have to pay for all the gas that s gonna be used up so these cops can play cops and robbers.
If you don't want a Police Department that is a "burden to taxpayers", why don't you petition the County Executive Committee to disband the Police Department? Maybe you prefer that the only individuals who will respond to a 9-1-1 call because some scumbag is trying to break into your home is, well... nobody?
Veteran

Ruckersville, VA

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#55
Nov 16, 2012
 
Valley Farmer wrote:
According to the Albemarle County Police website the starting salary is $38,000-40,000 a year. Benefits don't look out of line or overly generous for a physically demanding job. Say $10,000 for the benefits and we are talking 48,000-50,000 a year. Don't see the $50,000 to 60,000 to start out let alone $70,000.
This is because "Negligent Discharge" is full of bovine excrement. He/she/it is talking out of his/her/its behind. I'd be willing to bet that he/she/it could not do a Police Officer's job for even one day.

Not that I would want someone like him/her/it to back me u during a traffic stop or when dealing with an armed suspect.
Veteran

Ruckersville, VA

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#56
Nov 16, 2012
 
thinking free wrote:
<quoted text>Mostly the badge and the gun, most cops suffer from egos that demand they maintain control all things, and people, around themselves.
Isn't that the preferred mental profile of someone who is expected to do what Law Enforcement Officers are hired to do. Do you really want some timid, pushover to be out there trying to maintain law and order?
Dude

Bumpass, VA

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#57
Nov 16, 2012
 

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Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't that the preferred mental profile of someone who is expected to do what Law Enforcement Officers are hired to do. Do you really want some timid, pushover to be out there trying to maintain law and order?
It's not quite black and white. You need to work on your platitude propaganda. I'd rather have a push over than a maniacal egomaniac, but I'd perfer a rational competent servant of the community, than either of your two choices.
thinking free

Charlottesville, VA

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#58
Nov 17, 2012
 
Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't that the preferred mental profile of someone who is expected to do what Law Enforcement Officers are hired to do. Do you really want some timid, pushover to be out there trying to maintain law and order?
Here's the deal, to become a state police officer you have to have some college AND pass a psycho-social exam. Thats one reason you will often see people writng positive things about state officers. Its your local PD's that will hire with much less screening and why you will see local cops involved in less than professional conduct.
Misquote

Charlottesville, VA

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#59
Nov 18, 2012
 
Negligent Discharge wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm just stating the facts. I have never seen police work in the Top 10 Most Dangerous Professions. Do you have any idea how many truckers have been killed nationwide this year? I'm sure it probably much more than 106.
By the way, facts once again.... half of the 160 officer deaths you cite were a result of their own reckless driving. I'm sorry, that's just the way it is.
TOP 10 --
Fishermen
Loggers
Pilots
Trash Collection
Roofers
Steel Workers
Farmers
Truckers
Electrical Line Workers
Taxi Drivers
http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/09/24/ameri...
Actullay only 22 of a now 109 have been due to an auto accident...barely 20%. It's NOT just the way it is. And when you spend most the time in a car, accidents are going to happen and its not due to recklessness, its just a statistical fact. YOUR FACTS ARE MADE UP.

http://www.odmp.org/search/year/2012

PS-truckers arent dying from other people trying to kill them to protect you.
CvilleGordo

Charlottesville, VA

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#60
Nov 18, 2012
 
Negligent Discharge wrote:
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention the numerous overtime opportunities are BILLED through the police agencies. For example, the John Paul Jones arena is billed for man hours at say $45 an hour by the city or county police departments, and they in turn pay the officers slightly less per hour. This "profit" the police agencies make is done to justify using the police cars and gasoline, insurance rates, wear and tear on uniforms, etc... What the officer ends up getting is still 1 1/2 to 2 times their normal hourly wage.
If this billing and redistribution policy has changed, I am not aware of it.
I think we certainly agree that I call it overtime. And we can certainly agree that you call it "second salaries". The end result is still the same, the cops are not the poorly paid individuals they portray themselves as. Whenever they whine for pay increases before City Council or the Board of Supervisors they only speak of their base salary. They never think to add in the value of their benefits package.
So did you get fired by CPD or ACPD? Or do you work for a department that has no UVA game or JPJ overtime? Sounds suspiciously like sour grapes to me.
Veteran

Ruckersville, VA

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#61
Nov 18, 2012
 
Dude wrote:
<quoted text>...I'd rather have a push over than a maniacal egomaniac, but I'd perfer a rational competent servant of the community...
So how many push overs or a "rational servants" (Freudian Slip anyone) do you think would be willing to face overwhelming odds to rescue your child in the case of an Active Shooter Incident?

It's easy to judge and make such bold and uneducated statement sitting in the safety of your home. But if your loved one is in danger of getting their throats cut or sexually assaulted and then killed; you will probably prefer that the first Officer who arrives on the scene is an aggressive egomaniac who can shoot straight.

Armchair Quarterbacks and Keyboard Commandos are a dime a million. When it comes to a situation that requires an aggressive, violent action; you don't want Andy Griffith or Barney Fife to show up.
Dude

Bumpass, VA

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#62
Nov 18, 2012
 

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Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
So how many push overs or a "rational servants" (Freudian Slip anyone) do you think would be willing to face overwhelming odds to rescue your child in the case of an Active Shooter Incident?
It's easy to judge and make such bold and uneducated statement sitting in the safety of your home. But if your loved one is in danger of getting their throats cut or sexually assaulted and then killed; you will probably prefer that the first Officer who arrives on the scene is an aggressive egomaniac who can shoot straight.
Armchair Quarterbacks and Keyboard Commandos are a dime a million. When it comes to a situation that requires an aggressive, violent action; you don't want Andy Griffith or Barney Fife to show up.
Unlike you, I really am a veteran and know how to handle a crisis situations. Clearly you're not familiar with how law enforcement handles such situtations. You are wrong, aggeressive egomanics are more likely to kill an innocent civillian than someone that actually knows how to handle crisis situations.
Let's see if I can find an example:
http://www.topix.com/forum/source/nbc29/T9HF8...
or how about another
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/nyregion/by...
http://rt.com/usa/news/florida-man-police-kil...
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/08/14/cops-ki...
http://gawker.com/5941416/nypd-officer-shoots...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-20124838/...
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/man_...
.

No, I don't want some maniacal gun happy punk that's pumped up on adrenaline near my family.
.
I'm less afraid of criminals than aggressive gun happy police officers.

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