ACLU of VA Challenges Charlottesville Panhandling Ordinance

Full story: NBC29 Charlottesville

February 21, 2013 - An ACLU of Virginia lawsuit challenging Charlottesville's ban on panhandling on the Downtown Mall within 50 feet of cross streets may proceed, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ruled today.
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1 - 15 of 15 Comments Last updated Feb 25, 2013
Rational

Charlottesville, VA

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#1
Feb 21, 2013
 

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"But the First Amendment does not allow the government to ban speech simply to prevent discomfort"

What about to prevent economic harm? As in, people do not come to the DTM and spend money at local businesses because of these people.
County Resident

Raleigh, NC

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#2
Feb 21, 2013
 

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So find it in the First Amendment where it bans free speech to prevent economic harm.
Dude

Marshall, VA

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#3
Feb 21, 2013
 

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Rational wrote:
"But the First Amendment does not allow the government to ban speech simply to prevent discomfort"
What about to prevent economic harm? As in, people do not come to the DTM and spend money at local businesses because of these people.
Nope, it doesn't ban it then, either. The simple solution is to extend the boundaries of the leases to the middle of the street of the mall and charge them for trespass.
business owner

Silver Spring, MD

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#4
Feb 21, 2013
 

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Dude is correct.... this is the only easy way around this.

The only other way is to label panhandling as a business and make the people get a license.

When they ask for money they are selling a product which is guilt relief or some other sense of positive salvation. Whatever emotion the person giving the money "feels" as a result of the transaction is the "product" and thus a license can be required.

Of course another way to reduce the problem is to pass a law that no homeless get help from city tax dollars unles they have been a city resident for at least a year. That would probably get rid of half of them in a month.
Pez

Charlottesville, VA

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#5
Feb 21, 2013
 

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Let's drop of the beggars in front of the homes of all ACLU members - with nice shiny signs.
new hammer time

Richmond, VA

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#6
Feb 21, 2013
 

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business owner wrote:
Dude is correct.... this is the only easy way around this.
The only other way is to label panhandling as a business and make the people get a license.
When they ask for money they are selling a product which is guilt relief or some other sense of positive salvation. Whatever emotion the person giving the money "feels" as a result of the transaction is the "product" and thus a license can be required.
Of course another way to reduce the problem is to pass a law that no homeless get help from city tax dollars unles they have been a city resident for at least a year. That would probably get rid of half of them in a month.
your statement is utterly ridiculous......where do you ppl. get crap like that from?
sez you

Charlottesville, VA

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#7
Feb 21, 2013
 
How about vagrancy, loitering? you got to loiter to beg. Don't think you can privatise the mall, otherwise whos gonna do the maintenance and clean up?
no solicitors

United States

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#8
Feb 22, 2013
 

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stop solicitation
Dude

Montpelier, VA

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#9
Feb 22, 2013
 
sez you wrote:
How about vagrancy, loitering? you got to loiter to beg. Don't think you can privatise the mall, otherwise whos gonna do the maintenance and clean up?
The Mall can't be privatized, but you can extend the leases to the middle of the street, giving rights to the Lessee. Otherwise, it's a messy legal battle. Vague vagrancy and loitering laws are also unconstitutional.

"The Supreme Court ruled that a Chicago anti-loitering law is unconstitutional because it violated one’s first Amendment right to assemble peaceably."
http://libertarianrock.com/1999/06/supreme-co...

"The court held that the vagrancy ordinance was unconstitutionally vague because it gave too much arbitrary power to the police. The court found that the laws could potentially criminalize a variety of innocent activities, such as "Nightwalking," or "habitually living 'without visible means of support.'" A valid law, the Court found, needed to be clearly written and evenly administered."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papachristou_v._...

sez you

Charlottesville, VA

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#10
Feb 22, 2013
 

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Probably a moot point anyway, I'm sure there were a multitude of loiterers and beggars out during the Depression, we ain't that far away from one now, a depression that is.
Liz

Palmyra, VA

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#11
Feb 23, 2013
 

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I think extending the property line for the leasee to the middle of the mall is an excellent idea. After all, the city charges people after it snows to clear the sidewalk even though the city owns the sidewalk. The ACLU needs to stay out of this. At some point the needs of the many, has to supercede the needs of the one or few. You cannot let 5 people dictate the economics of an entire city block of a business district. This has gone beyond ridiculous. The city needs to do something for the businesses that is legal that will help them get rid of the vagrants who are hurting those businesses.
DNTN

Martinsville, VA

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#12
Feb 23, 2013
 
Panhandling on the downtown mall :
shared signs shared dogs shared money
EBT Escalade

Moneta, VA

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#13
Feb 23, 2013
 

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None of these guys are homeless---they all live on the public dime in a subsidized setting of one type or another. Check out the faces of some on the Wall of Shame at the Lucky Seven then check them out in the district court website.

Five of many reasons to avoid the downtown mall like the plague.
Jimmy

Richmond, VA

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#14
Feb 25, 2013
 
make it a state law thus ends the discussions
sez you

Charlottesville, VA

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#15
Feb 25, 2013
 
Found myself down on the mall today, unfortunately. I was first insulted by some guy begging through his harmonica, then looking closer, was aghast at the filth impregnated into the 6 million dollars worth of bricks they put down. The place is trashed.

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