Science test scores vary by school

Science test scores vary by school

There are 27 comments on the Brattleboro Reformer story from Sep 24, 2009, titled Science test scores vary by school. In it, Brattleboro Reformer reports that:

Results from this year's standardized science test scores showed a wide discrepancy in how students were learning basic science skills in Windham County's public schools, according to data released this week by the Vermont Department of Education.

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Joe

Chester, VT

#1 Sep 24, 2009
"test scores only tell a small part of what teachers are doing at his school"

The other part is teaching them to be PC, GREEN children of a one world socialist government, the silly educational curriculum gets in the way of the liberal propaganda.
Neon Moose

Freeport, ME

#2 Sep 24, 2009
Joe wrote:
"test scores only tell a small part of what teachers are doing at his school"
The other part is teaching them to be PC, GREEN children of a one world socialist government, the silly educational curriculum gets in the way of the liberal propaganda.
Don't forget the anti God theory lesson being taught as part of the Vemont State science currucilum.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#3 Sep 24, 2009
Neon Moose wrote:
<quoted text> Don't forget the anti God theory lesson being taught as part of the Vemont State science currucilum.
And thank god for that. The church can teach them as they wish and the schools can teach them the facts. Churches can't mess with schools and schools can't mess with churches. Works out well.
Neon Moose

Freeport, ME

#4 Sep 24, 2009
Vermont citizen wrote:
<quoted text>
And thank god for that. The church can teach them as they wish and the schools can teach them the facts. Churches can't mess with schools and schools can't mess with churches. Works out well.
You misunderstood my post. What I said was that teachers are purposefully teaching students that there is no God. I do not object to keeping religion out of the classroom, but I do object when educators teaches lessons against God's existence. Separation of church and state works both ways.
New Clear Waste

Brattleboro, VT

#5 Sep 24, 2009
Neon Moose wrote:
What I said was that teachers are purposefully teaching students that there is no God
What the hel are you talking about? Most teachers believe in a god. Do you mean because they include evolution along with other scientific subjects? Lots of people acknowledge evolution while believing in a god. If you're advocating the suppression of certain scientific subjects that are inconvenient to conservative religious dogma, such as evolution, they you're talking about keeping American kids ignorant so they can believe that illogical religious dogma. The distortion of educational curricula by the religious Right is one more reason American kids are falling behind their counterparts in other countries. I consider it anti-patriotic.
Neon Moose

Freeport, ME

#6 Sep 24, 2009
New Clear Waste wrote:
<quoted text>
What the hel are you talking about? Most teachers believe in a god. Do you mean because they include evolution along with other scientific subjects? Lots of people acknowledge evolution while believing in a god. If you're advocating the suppression of certain scientific subjects that are inconvenient to conservative religious dogma, such as evolution, they you're talking about keeping American kids ignorant so they can believe that illogical religious dogma. The distortion of educational curricula by the religious Right is one more reason American kids are falling behind their counterparts in other countries. I consider it anti-patriotic.
Sorry, but you are wrong in your assumption of my intent. Some WSESU Teachers are in fact lowering students grades because they refuse to reject God. Certain teachers openly teach against God in the classroom. I am not talking about teachers ommitting God from the lesson plan, I am talking about teachers bringing up the subject of God and then targeting students who openly state that they believe in God. Everyone with students in the system knows that it is happening.
New Clear Waste

Brattleboro, VT

#7 Sep 24, 2009
Neon Moose wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but you are wrong in your assumption of my intent. Some WSESU Teachers are in fact lowering students grades because they refuse to reject God. Certain teachers openly teach against God in the classroom. I am not talking about teachers ommitting God from the lesson plan, I am talking about teachers bringing up the subject of God and then targeting students who openly state that they believe in God. Everyone with students in the system knows that it is happening.
No - you can't put out accusations like that without some kind of details. That's irresponsible. Name the schools, grades and classes concerned, and describe the instances, or take back your accusation, which sounds like some far-fetched figment of a religious imagination.
Neon Moose

Freeport, ME

#8 Sep 24, 2009
Capstone projects BUHS Science requirment for students. After teacher initiated discussion on God's lack of existance, the subject chosen and presented by two of his students, "Intellegent Design". Two separate students, two separate years, both students given poor grades inspite of considerable work and having aditional teachers review the project prior to handing it in. BAMS English assignment in the context of studying ancient civilizations. Students were to create their own Gods and assign to them special powers. When a student protested that , "God created man, man did not create God", the student was made to complete the personally offensive project. These are two examples, what more would you like?

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#9 Sep 24, 2009
Neon Moose wrote:
Capstone projects BUHS Science requirment for students. After teacher initiated discussion on God's lack of existance, the subject chosen and presented by two of his students, "Intellegent Design". Two separate students, two separate years, both students given poor grades inspite of considerable work and having aditional teachers review the project prior to handing it in. BAMS English assignment in the context of studying ancient civilizations. Students were to create their own Gods and assign to them special powers. When a student protested that , "God created man, man did not create God", the student was made to complete the personally offensive project. These are two examples, what more would you like?
If the first example is legitimate, and students were demonstrably discriminated against due to personal factors, the involved students should certainly follow up with school officials.

Personally, I'm uncomfortable with the concept of God even entering the discussion in a science classroom. Personal beliefs aside, Science, on the most basic level, deals with the observation and explanation of the natural world around us. Science does not (and cannot) address the concept of God - the existence or lack thereof - in any capacity. Science does not preclude the existence of God, it simply has nothing to say on the subject.

Your second example is a load of crap. It was a fictional writing project based on the historical fact that ancient civilizations worshiped a variety of diverse and interesting deities. I found linear algebra personally offensive and I had to do that, so I have very little sympathy.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#10 Sep 24, 2009
Neon Moose wrote:
Capstone projects BUHS Science requirment for students. After teacher initiated discussion on God's lack of existance, the subject chosen and presented by two of his students, "Intellegent Design". Two separate students, two separate years, both students given poor grades inspite of considerable work and having aditional teachers review the project prior to handing it in.
I guess I didn't read your first example carefully. Were I a science teacher, I would fail students for turning in a project on intelligent design, mainly because it's not science.
Neon Moose

Freeport, ME

#11 Sep 24, 2009
Ben Long wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess I didn't read your first example carefully. Were I a science teacher, I would fail students for turning in a project on intelligent design, mainly because it's not science.
You do realize do you not that Intelligent design need not include God? That being said, the teacher offered the topic of Intelligent design to the students with the challenge of needing to prove it beyond a doubt. Tell me what scientific explanation explaines the origins of life beyond doubt? Even the most acclaimed and educated scientist cannot. As for the second mentioned example, with all of the possible themes of ancient civilization, why choose this one to be manditory?

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#12 Sep 24, 2009
Neon Moose wrote:
<quoted text> You do realize do you not that Intelligent design need not include God? That being said, the teacher offered the topic of Intelligent design to the students with the challenge of needing to prove it beyond a doubt. Tell me what scientific explanation explaines the origins of life beyond doubt? Even the most acclaimed and educated scientist cannot. As for the second mentioned example, with all of the possible themes of ancient civilization, why choose this one to be manditory?
I understand very well what intelligent design is, and what it isn't. The absence of "God" does not make it science. It does not follow the scientific method, a very specific scientific framework for gaining knowledge about the natural world.

Science also does not deal with "proof". Proof is only useful as a concept in axiomatic systems. No knowledge in science is ever absolute, everything in science is subject to change given new information. You also ought not confuse the origin of life and the theory of evolution, as I suspect you are doing - they are actually quite separate topics.
Neon Moose

Cambridge, VT

#13 Sep 25, 2009
On the same line of reasoning for the second example, they also had slaves and unix during the time frame studied. Why didn't the teacher give the students the choice to create a slave, God, ruler or unix? That way students could meet the criteria as outlined by the curriculum and avoid what is personally offensive to their beliefes.
On the first example, again, I draw your attention to the teachers motivation for presenting his theory on the absense of God and then baiting students into a no win situation (due to the teachers prejudice). The teacher should have simply rejected the topic for the project.
So as to be completly balanced on the subject, I have also witnessed on seveal instances, a teacher's outright religious instruction on Judaism while at the same time presenting Christianity as little more than Spruce trees with presents. We see this type of unbalanced presentations increasingly as teachers tackle the topic of Islam and Muslims (pretense of current events).
So back to my orginal statement that separation of church and state goes both ways. Does God belong in school? I believe that it does in the context of studying Art, music , history, culture and yes certain aspects of science (Jane Goodall's "Reason For Hope"), So the difficulty is do we take the law litterally or do we understand that the beliefe in God shaped and continues to shape who we are as a culture and society? You see, my personal beliefe holds no water in this, the courts have spoken to this time and time again, schools are to be secular regardless of how that changes our history or knowledge.
New Clear Waste

Brattleboro, VT

#14 Sep 25, 2009
Neon Moose wrote:
On the same line of reasoning for the second example, they also had slaves and unix during the time frame studied. Why didn't the teacher give the students the choice to create a slave, God, ruler or unix? That way students could meet the criteria as outlined by the curriculum and avoid what is personally offensive to their beliefes.
On the first example, again, I draw your attention to the teachers motivation for presenting his theory on the absense of God and then baiting students into a no win situation (due to the teachers prejudice). The teacher should have simply rejected the topic for the project.
So as to be completly balanced on the subject, I have also witnessed on seveal instances, a teacher's outright religious instruction on Judaism while at the same time presenting Christianity as little more than Spruce trees with presents. We see this type of unbalanced presentations increasingly as teachers tackle the topic of Islam and Muslims (pretense of current events).
So back to my orginal statement that separation of church and state goes both ways. Does God belong in school? I believe that it does in the context of studying Art, music , history, culture and yes certain aspects of science (Jane Goodall's "Reason For Hope"), So the difficulty is do we take the law litterally or do we understand that the beliefe in God shaped and continues to shape who we are as a culture and society? You see, my personal beliefe holds no water in this, the courts have spoken to this time and time again, schools are to be secular regardless of how that changes our history or knowledge.
After reading your various posts, I'm convinced that you're a partisan of the christian religion, to the point where anything not overtly advocating christianity is considered by you to be anti-christian. You would not be satisfied until public school students were required to pray in school, and with christian prayers.

By the way, since you mention "spruce trees with presents" in conjunction with christianity, you should be aware that the use of trees to celebrate the winter holiday is a pre-christian tradition that survived the christian take-over of northern Europe.
Neon Moose

Cambridge, VT

#15 Sep 25, 2009
New Clear Waste wrote:
<quoted text>
After reading your various posts, I'm convinced that you're a partisan of the christian religion, to the point where anything not overtly advocating christianity is considered by you to be anti-christian. You would not be satisfied until public school students were required to pray in school, and with christian prayers.
By the way, since you mention "spruce trees with presents" in conjunction with christianity, you should be aware that the use of trees to celebrate the winter holiday is a pre-christian tradition that survived the christian take-over of northern Europe.
You should be very careful of sweeping judgments. I practice Hinduism. By compartmentalizing me you think you justify your prejudice.
New Clear Waste

Brattleboro, VT

#16 Sep 25, 2009
Neon Moose wrote:
<quoted text>
You should be very careful of sweeping judgments. I practice Hinduism.
Yeah right
Neon Moose

Cambridge, VT

#17 Sep 25, 2009
New Clear Waste wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah right

Predictable response from this forum. I do not exclude any religion or religious practice. I believe God has many names and forms. So if you ask me if I am Christian I honestly can say yes. If you ask me if I am Jewish, I can honestly say yes. We all belong to God, it matters little how we celebrate/acknowledge 'his' existance.
But as stated before, that matters little in the court mandated secular classroom. It is against the principles of education to endorse or deny any existance of "church". So when a public educator walks that tight rope, they better have very good balance.
i hate hippies

Montpelier, VT

#18 Sep 25, 2009
Neon Moose wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but you are wrong in your assumption of my intent. Some WSESU Teachers are in fact lowering students grades because they refuse to reject God. Certain teachers openly teach against God in the classroom. I am not talking about teachers ommitting God from the lesson plan, I am talking about teachers bringing up the subject of God and then targeting students who openly state that they believe in God. Everyone with students in the system knows that it is happening."
i graduated last year and i never saw any examples of this, targeting students for believing in god. Most teachers try to keep god out but saying they target religious students is ridiculous.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#19 Sep 25, 2009
Neon Moose wrote:
On the same line of reasoning for the second example, they also had slaves and unix during the time frame studied. Why didn't the teacher give the students the choice to create a slave, God, ruler or unix? That way students could meet the criteria as outlined by the curriculum and avoid what is personally offensive to their beliefes.
My point is that teachers shouldn't have to start changing around their curriculum every time one of the students finds it "personally offensive". The assignment was to write fiction, not to denounce their personal belief system.
Neon Moose wrote:
On the first example, again, I draw your attention to the teachers motivation for presenting his theory on the absense of God and then baiting students into a no win situation (due to the teachers prejudice). The teacher should have simply rejected the topic for the project.
I wasn't in the classroom, I don't know what the teacher said. Any science teacher should reject any science project that does not utilize the scientific method to support its conclusions. Science teachers should stick to science, and not bring up their own personal ideas about whether there is or isn't a god. I suspect that I'm not getting an objective interpretation of what happened from you, so I'll reserve my judgment on this particular incident.
Neon Moose

Cambridge, VT

#20 Sep 25, 2009
Ben, did you know that books such as; Black Like Me, Native Son and To Kill a Mockingbird have been removed from reading lists because certain cultures and races find them offensive? Changes to the curriculum are made every day for the very same reasons that I stated. It is wise to reserve judment but I would like to clarify that while I have first hand knowledge of what I am speaking about, the incidents did not involve my children. My information was otherwise gained.

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