Who do you support for U.S. Senate in Georgia in 2010?

[Bill in Dville]

Informed Opinion wrote:

<quoted text>
...So when I take a break from watching my dancing pony perform and sell my stock Daddy gave me, I pay 15% on my $1,000,000 profit. When you crawl out of the ditch where you've been working 60 hours a week and cash your check for $$650, you pay a lot more.
Additionally, as the article identified, "Hedge Fund" income, is taxed at capital gain rate of 15% as if it is capital gain income, even if it isn't.
Hedge Funds were designed by the rich, to benefit the rich.
...I remember buying a Lincoln Navigator because the tax code allowed me to deduct the entire cost of the vehicle as it weighed over 6,000 lbs.
...

There you go showing your wealth envy and lack of knowledge again. You seem to be wanting to hold a whole bunch of people "hostage", when, in actuality, it's a much smaller number of people you're upset with.

"Saying the tax rates are fair because your long term capital gains tax rate is the same as my long term capital gain tax rate is silly. It's the same as saying we are taxed fairly because your 100 foot yacht is taxed the same as my 100 foot yacht.
Most Americans don't have 100 foot yachts, and most don't the discretionary income to invest in assets that generate capital gains. They "invest" in food, shelter, medicine, and their kid's education, then the money is gone."

I don't recall how many tax returns I prepared last year, but the vast majority of them owned mutual funds and the majority of them owned individual stocks (Home Depot seemed to be quite popular). Not EVERYBODY owns stocks and mutual funds, but MANY do, for the long term growth potential AND the capital gains treatment. If those (and many others) people didn't invest in mutuals and the stock market, where would the capital come from?

BTW, check the tax tables, if memory serves correct to have a 15% tax rate, a couple has to have around $77K of TAXABLE income. To get TAXABLE income of $77K (depending on deductions, exemptions, etc.) a family's gross income could be $90K+(or more or less), which is around 75% HIGHER than the median household income in the US.

In other words, a family with gross income of 75% more than the median US income has a tax rate that is the same as the capital gains rate. Isn't $90K or $100K a pretty good family income?

"than the rich who pay 15%,(if anything at all) "earning" their income sitting by the pool waiting for their capital gains checks to arrive."

LMAO. Wealth envy-itis again. You think (most) wealthy people don't work their butts off? How many hours a week do you work, if at all?

BTW, AGAIN what exactly was wrong with what the BM said? Also, do you know the rationale of why the capital gains rate was reduced?

Another BTW, I'm familiar with the accredited investor rules. Quite familiar.

One good point you make:

"How idiotic was that, my vehicle purchase was subsidized by other taxpayers because I bought a huge, cumbersome, inefficient, gas guzzler. Those farmers had some damn good lobbyists."

[Synergy]

I have a question. Why is it okay for those who aren't rich to game the system and get away with it, but it's not okay for those who have made good financial decisions, inherited, won or somehow acquired a lot of money, not to take advantage of laws(loopholes) in order to protect their finances? I see major problems on BOTH ends of the spectrum.

[Bill in Dville]

Synergy wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you saying that you haven't had an equal chance for prosperity? You most certainly HAVE had an equal chance. You have simply not made the DECISIONS that would have led to more prosperity. Good grief! I CAN'T believe that you are making such a statement. So! You think you are "entitled"? Seriously? What has stood in the way of YOU not having an EQUAL chance of prosperity???? I can't wait to read your answer. You are limited ONLY by your own choices. Please tell my how YOU haven't had an equal chance. I am astounded!

+1

Typical, isn't it? Reminds of that woman (recording heard on Boortz) that had 6 or 7 kids and no baby Daddy, saying, "Somebody gots to pay to take care of these children..."

Choices made or not made are your responsibility, not ours.

------
Wealth envy is an ugly thing. They have it. You don't.

Somebody else got all the breaks. You didn't.

They got an education. You didn't. I was paying off student loans until I was age 31...

They worked their a$$es off, including long hours and weekends. You didn't.

They took risks, including investing their own money if necessary, to build a business. You didn't.

"Shared prosperity" = Socialism...

“If you’re not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you’re not a conservative at 40, you have no head.” Winston Churchill

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churchill

“Common sense is a flower that doesn’t grow in everyone’s garden…”

[Bill in Dville]

Synergy wrote:

I have a question. Why is it okay for those who aren't rich to game the system and get away with it, but it's not okay for those who have made good financial decisions, inherited, won or somehow acquired a lot of money, not to take advantage of laws(loopholes) in order to protect their finances? I see major problems on BOTH ends of the spectrum.

As long as someone's paying their legally required amount of taxes, they're doing the right thing.

Too many people want to bitch about what's happening, rather than do something about it. The FairTax would eliminate the inequities in the tax system.

[jeb stuart]

Synergy wrote:

<quoted text>
Step AWAY from MSNBC and Chris Matthews. Who will tell you how to think or what to post if your electricity goes out??? rotfl

k,i'll stick with fox-and and all truth and real facts.:)

[jeb stuart]

Bill in Dville wrote:

<quoted text>
+1
Typical, isn't it? Reminds of that woman (recording heard on Boortz) that had 6 or 7 kids and no baby Daddy, saying, "Somebody gots to pay to take care of these children..."
Choices made or not made are your responsibility, not ours.
------
Wealth envy is an ugly thing. They have it. You don't.
Somebody else got all the breaks. You didn't.
They got an education. You didn't. I was paying off student loans until I was age 31...
They worked their a$$es off, including long hours and weekends. You didn't.
They took risks, including investing their own money if necessary, to build a business. You didn't.
"Shared prosperity" = Socialism...
“If you’re not a liberal at 20, you have no heart, and if you’re not a conservative at 40, you have no head.” Winston Churchill
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” Winston Churchill
“Common sense is a flower that doesn’t grow in everyone’s garden…”

"you can always count on americans to do the right thing,after they've tried evrything else"winston churchill.

[jeb stuart]

Informed Opinion wrote:

<quoted text>
Jeb, you gotta tell us more about that.
She had to be smart to turn that role into a long term money maker for her.

sometime in private,k.

[Synergy]

jeb stuart wrote:

<quoted text>k,i'll stick with fox-and and all truth and real facts.:)

Okaaaaay. lol

[Informed Opinion]

Synergy wrote:

<quoted text>Are you saying that you haven't had an equal chance for prosperity? You most certainly HAVE had an equal chance. You have simply not made the DECISIONS that would have led to more prosperity. Good grief! I CAN'T believe that you are making such a statement. So! You think you are "entitled"? Seriously? What has stood in the way of YOU not having an EQUAL chance of prosperity???? I can't wait to read your answer. You are limited ONLY by your own choices. Please tell my how YOU haven't had an equal chance. I am astounded!

Right before I was borne God asked me, "Boy, do you want to be born as the son of Sam Walton, and inherit more money than 80 million Americans possess, or to a poor preacher at a small church who'll never earn more than $18.000 a year his entire life?"

When I was born the time before that, God asked me "Boy, do you want to be raised in an upper class family with sober, healthy, professional, college educated, parents, Dad who is C. F.O. of G.E., and Mom is a cardiac surgeon, who provide for your college education at Harvard and Yale, where you'll mix with others destined for upper-management positions with multinational trillion dollar corporations,
or
would you prefer to be borne to a malnourished, poor, drug addicted, teenage, high school drop-out, prostitute, with aids, who lives in South Philadelphia with her pimp, who'll beat you both every day.

Man did I screw up those opportunities - so I guess it's my fault I'm still working instead of vacationing at Cannes.

"Equal Opportunity" is more of a myth than "Free Markets".

Here is son supporting data:

Exceptional Upward Mobility in the US Is a Myth, International Studies Show
Sep. 5, 2012 — The rhetoric is relentless: America is a place of unparalleled opportunity...
But the reality is very different, according to a University of Michigan researcher who is studying inequality across generations around the world.
"Especially in the United States, people underestimate the extent to which your destiny is linked to your background," says Fabian Pfeffer, a sociologist at the U-M Institute for Social Research (ISR).

"Research shows that it's really a myth that the U.S. is a land of exceptional social mobility."
Pfeffer's own research illustrates this point based on data on two generations of families in the U.S. and a comparison of his findings to similar data from Germany and Sweden.
He found that parental wealth plays an important role in whether children move up or down the socioeconomic ladder in adulthood. And that parental wealth has an influence above and beyond the three factors that sociologists and economists have traditionally considered in research on social mobility -- parental education, income and occupation.
"Wealth not only fulfills a purchasing function, allowing families to buy homes in good neighborhoods and send their children to costly schools and colleges, for example, but it also has an insurance function, offering a sort of private safety net that gives children a very different set of choices as they enter the adult world," Pfeffer says.
"Despite the widespread belief that the U.S. provides exceptional opportunities for upward mobility, these data show that parental wealth has an important role in shielding offspring from downward mobility and sustaining their upward mobility.
Pfeffer is also examining the influence of grandparents' wealth.

Journal Reference:
Pfeffer, Fabian T., and Martin Hällsten. Mobility Regimes and Parental Wealth

MLA
University of Michigan (2012, September 5). Exceptional upward mobility in the US is a myth, international studies show.

Damn Steven Seagal movie - keeping me up and on the Internet.

[Synergy]

Informed Opinion wrote:

<quoted text>
Right before I was borne God asked me, "Boy, do you want to be born as the son of Sam Walton, and inherit more money than 80 million Americans possess, or to a poor preacher at a small church who'll never earn more than $18.000 a year his entire life?"
When I was born the time before that, God asked me "Boy, do you want to be raised in an upper class family with sober, healthy, professional, college educated, parents, Dad who is C. F.O. of G.E., and Mom is a cardiac surgeon, who provide for your college education at Harvard and Yale, where you'll mix with others destined for upper-management positions with multinational trillion dollar corporations,
or
would you prefer to be borne to a malnourished, poor, drug addicted, teenage, high school drop-out, prostitute, with aids, who lives in South Philadelphia with her pimp, who'll beat you both every day.
Man did I screw up those opportunities - so I guess it's my fault I'm still working instead of vacationing at Cannes.
"Equal Opportunity" is more of a myth than "Free Markets".
Here is son supporting data:
Exceptional Upward Mobility in the US Is a Myth, International Studies Show
Sep. 5, 2012 — The rhetoric is relentless: America is a place of unparalleled opportunity...
But the reality is very different, according to a University of Michigan researcher who is studying inequality across generations around the world.
"Especially in the United States, people underestimate the extent to which your destiny is linked to your background," says Fabian Pfeffer, a sociologist at the U-M Institute for Social Research (ISR).
"Research shows that it's really a myth that the U.S. is a land of exceptional social mobility."
Pfeffer's own research illustrates this point based on data on two generations of families in the U.S. and a comparison of his findings to similar data from Germany and Sweden.
He found that parental wealth plays an important role in whether children move up or down the socioeconomic ladder in adulthood. And that parental wealth has an influence above and beyond the three factors that sociologists and economists have traditionally considered in research on social mobility -- parental education, income and occupation.
"Wealth not only fulfills a purchasing function, allowing families to buy homes in good neighborhoods and send their children to costly schools and colleges, for example, but it also has an insurance function, offering a sort of private safety net that gives children a very different set of choices as they enter the adult world," Pfeffer says.
"Despite the widespread belief that the U.S. provides exceptional opportunities for upward mobility, these data show that parental wealth has an important role in shielding offspring from downward mobility and sustaining their upward mobility.
Pfeffer is also examining the influence of grandparents' wealth.
Journal Reference:
Pfeffer, Fabian T., and Martin Hällsten. Mobility Regimes and Parental Wealth
MLA
University of Michigan (2012, September 5). Exceptional upward mobility in the US is a myth, international studies show.
Damn Steven Seagal movie - keeping me up and on the Internet.

REGARDLESS of to whom you were born, if you were born in the U.S., once you became old enough to make your own decisions, YOUR FATE was in YOUR hands. Are you SERIOUSLY handing out excuses such as what you posted? Oh, brother. You ARE kidding, right? PLEASE say that you are kidding.

[jeb stuart]

Synergy wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you saying that you haven't had an equal chance for prosperity? You most certainly HAVE had an equal chance. You have simply not made the DECISIONS that would have led to more prosperity. Good grief! I CAN'T believe that you are making such a statement. So! You think you are "entitled"? Seriously? What has stood in the way of YOU not having an EQUAL chance of prosperity???? I can't wait to read your answer. You are limited ONLY by your own choices. Please tell my how YOU haven't had an equal chance. I am astounded!

it may never have occured to you that i may be just as or even more prosperous than you.you and so many repugs automatically assume that anyone who defends the poor,the underprivledged,are poor homeless people.just one more example of how out of touch you really are.or the other class you seem to want to catagorize us as is bleeding hearts of the rich elite.things are not that simple,friend.i work,pay taxes,and who knows, may be worth more than you-bottem line.but that is not my point,i want what is best and fairest for all americans.is that really so hard to believe or understand.I don't need or want any of your so-called entittlements-but i don't intend to allow for you and your croonies to hand them out to wealthiest and greediest of americans,either.at least,not on my watch.

[General Robert E Lee]

Lived there wrote:

<quoted text>
Technically correct, EXCEPT withholding tax is levied against the first $117,000 of gross EARNED - operative word - income and that tax ALONE accounts for 32% of everything the government takes in. If your income comes from stock dividends, annuities, tax shelters, off-shore accounts (assuming they're reported), etc. then you don't have to pay anything on withholding.
So, even the 47% pay through the nose so the super-rich don't have to.
Bet you don't like that math lesson. ;o)

I believe you are a little off base here.

[Come on now]

Why don't you all start a new thread? Come on this is not even about the poll "Who do you support for U.S. Senate in Georgia in 2010?" anymore.

[Lived there]

General Robert E Lee wrote:

<quoted text>
I believe you are a little off base here.

You "believe" wrong.

http://www1.umn.edu/ohr/payroll/tax/wagelimit ...

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/...

http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/

[Lived there]

It is 40%(FY 2012-2013), not 32%(FY 2011-2012)- a major error on my part, although the adjusted margin of difference is a wash. ;o)

Now that the "tax holiday" is over, have you noticed a difference in your paycheck? Congress, the bastards, I'm sure thanks you - NOT. ;o(

[Lived there]

Synergy wrote:

<quoted text>
REGARDLESS of to whom you were born, if you were born in the U.S., once you became old enough to make your own decisions, YOUR FATE was in YOUR hands. Are you SERIOUSLY handing out excuses such as what you posted? Oh, brother. You ARE kidding, right? PLEASE say that you are kidding.

They're not excuses, just obstacles that are increasingly difficult to overcome.

[Synergy]

jeb stuart wrote:

<quoted text>it may never have occured to you that i may be just as or even more prosperous than you.you and so many repugs automatically assume that anyone who defends the poor,the underprivledged,are poor homeless people.just one more example of how out of touch you really are.or the other class you seem to want to catagorize us as is bleeding hearts of the rich elite.things are not that simple,friend.i work,pay taxes,and who knows, may be worth more than you-bottem line.but that is not my point,i want what is best and fairest for all americans.is that really so hard to believe or understand.I don't need or want any of your so-called entittlements-but i don't intend to allow for you and your croonies to hand them out to wealthiest and greediest of americans,either.at least,not on my watch.

You did NOT address the point. We ALL have equal opportunities. Your original post intimated that we don't. Life is composed of choices. I believe we ALL know people who pulled themselves out of poor home situations and determined they were going to do better for themselves. I have NO IDEA about your financial position nor do I care. I am simply pointing out the fallacy of your original post about everyone not having equal opportunity.
BTW, you and many dums automatically assume that anyone who defends those who have made better choices in their lives are rich, selfish and evil. Just ANOTHER example of how out of touch YOU are. You are correct. Things AREN'T that simple, friend. I do all of the same things you do in regard to paying taxes, etc, but I don't OWE anyone who doesn't contribute. I, too, want what is best and FAIREST. Herein lies one of the problems. I don't intend to support ne'er do wells. If you want to do that, go for it. Be a chump. I'll fight it every step of the way. I want to CHOOSE whom I help with my hard earned money. Screw those who sit on their butts, game the system and find it amusing that I am taking care of business.

[Synergy]

Lived there wrote:

<quoted text>
They're not excuses, just obstacles that are increasingly difficult to overcome.

Those obstacles have not ALWAYS been difficult to overcome. If someone wants it bad enough, they won't give up. We have a generation of narcissistic entitled young people who have not been taught that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. If you lose, you keep trying. Seriously, as an example, if you are ON a team you get a trophy! REALLY?????? Why so? Well, we don't want to hurt anyone's FEELINGS. Think about Facebook. I'm sure some young people think that if they have hundreds of "friends", they have actually acomplished something. NO! This generation probably WILL need the government to take care of them.

[Bill in Dville]

Bill in Dville wrote:

<quoted text>
...BTW, check the tax tables, if memory serves correct to have a 15% tax rate, a couple has to have around $77K of TAXABLE income. To get TAXABLE income of $77K (depending on deductions, exemptions, etc.) a family's gross income could be $90K+(or more or less), which is around 75% HIGHER than the median household income in the US.
In other words, a family with gross income of 75% more than the median US income has a tax rate that is the same as the capital gains rate. Isn't $90K or $100K a pretty good family income?

...

An update with better information:

A couple with 2 children could very easily be making over $100K per year to end up with TAXABLE income of $77K (2011 exemptions were $3,700 (x4), total would be $14,800, mortgage interest deduction, real estate taxes, ad valorem taxes, donations, etc.).

In other words, a family earning over $100K a year is paying an overall lower tax rate than the capital gains rate of 15%.

I think $100K househould income, which is about twice the national average, is pretty good...Are they paying THEIR fair share? Perhaps, but because you don't know diddly about the tax system, you're not aware of it...

[Lived there]

Synergy wrote:

<quoted text>
We ALL have equal opportunities.

NOT true!