AHL team paid for with your tax dollars
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Truth

Utica, NY

#125 Jun 23, 2013
Tired of Negative Uticans wrote:
<quoted text>
Save your breath because he is just another negative Utican.
You confuse negative with realistic. How many times must we run this same scenario where taxpayers fund a private business venture and in the end get left holding the bag. A few well connected people stand to do well with this at taxpayer expense just like always. At least until the "bandwagon effect" wears off anyway. That's not negative. That's realistic, based on facts/history and this same template that is used every time one of these well connected people comes up with one of these schemes.

Did you watch or listen to the press conference? The only one who didn't get thanked was the taxpayer. While these guys, to a man, were falling all over each other to pat each other on the back, when it came to the people who supplied the $5.25 million - crickets. That's very telling in and of itself.
Utica Is High Tech LOL

Gouverneur, NY

#126 Jun 23, 2013
Utica Is High Tech LOL wrote:
<quoted text>
The public has no right to know arrangements made with the aud. if a concert is ever played there again to you think it's your right to know how much the promoter is paying? Is it your right to know what the vendors are paying to set up there for events?
and can you please tell me why I like to smell buuutttwholes so much.
Truth

Utica, NY

#127 Jun 23, 2013
sticks35 wrote:
<quoted text> what are you asking me what the rent is for that building?? ask your leaders in utica.... i have no clue what is going on other than it was going up for bids who was going to run the aud..... do you know how much utica college pays?? or mohawk valley, or youth hockey??
Did any of those get $5.25 million taxpayer dollars for upgrades and improvements specifically tailored to their needs?
Truth

Utica, NY

#128 Jun 23, 2013
sticks 35 wrote:
<quoted text> well without the video boards(they are not score boards) you will never get concerts or wrestling or any other attractions that draw large crowds. rochester has em, bingamton has em, syracuse has em, albany has em. what the heck are you gonna do with the building?? rent it out for a flower or book show.. that oughta bring in the over 70 crowd....thats one of the reasons the aud is under used and dosnt make money, no shows will come here cause the building is too out dated. video boards also create revenue buy playnig advertisements and at concerts allows people in the back to see whats going on up close. gotta spend money to make money, how many times did they close the aud only to find out it cost too much money in upkeep to keep it closed. the only thing specific to hockey is the locker rooms, and the video replay, which is not the same as the video boards.and they bought the video replay system used from peoria. the video boards will also be used by any other show that uses the building including utica college.
It's video scoreboard that meets the AHL requirement. Are you really trying to get someone to believe otherwise?

You are right on one point. It does take money to make money. I think it would/will be interesting to know how much in campaign contributions for Brindisi, Griffo and Cuomo came from Mohawk Valley Garden. That would be a great research project and story for the OD I think.
Sticks35

Walnutport, PA

#129 Jun 23, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
It's video scoreboard that meets the AHL requirement. Are you really trying to get someone to believe otherwise?
You are right on one point. It does take money to make money. I think it would/will be interesting to know how much in campaign contributions for Brindisi, Griffo and Cuomo came from Mohawk Valley Garden. That would be a great research project and story for the OD I think.
they already have score boards. The video boards are just large screen tvs.why are you so thick headed... The video boards have nothing.to do with score boards. I realize your a little slow but you should be able to handle it if you read it really really slowly....

Since: Jul 12

Hamden, CT

#130 Jun 23, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Did any of those get $5.25 million taxpayer dollars for upgrades and improvements specifically tailored to their needs?
wow maybe next time they decide to grant some money to the aud they should do something to the building that would be utterly useless and serve no purpose. they could put a slaughter house in where the locker rooms should be, no sense putting anything in the aud that might actually get used...that way no one would get any benefit from it. while they are at it maybe they should put football goalposts up in the middle of route 12 and then they can build a bridge with new stop lights in the outfield at murnane field. this way nobody will benefit from the state grant money and maybe you will stop complaining... what a dum azz......OF COOUSE THEY SOME OF THE MONEY WENT TOWARD IMPROVEMENTS TO GET A TEAM, WHAT DO YOU THINK ITS ALL ABOUT???? YOU CANT POSSIBLY BE THAT STUPID!!!!!!!!
Go Comets

Cambridge, MA

#131 Jun 23, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Did any of those get $5.25 million taxpayer dollars for upgrades and improvements specifically tailored to their needs?
There are 5 other teams in NY all of which have had their buildings upgraded in one form or another. Do you think the teams paid for this? It is about time Utica shares in some of this funding.
LOL Utica Is High Tech

Albany, NY

#132 Jun 23, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The $5.25 million the taxpayers ponied up for this most certainly was to attract the AHL. Don't belive me? How about what Rob Esche had to say about it in an interview with WIBX:
"•On the total of $5 million dollars in state money that is funding upgrades at the AUD:”I know this may fall on deaf ears, but I swear, it was a terrific experience dealing with our politicians. They said from day one,‘If you can get a team in here long term, we’ll help you out.’ Esche also indicated the state assistance was a key piece of the deal"
If you watched or listened to the press conference you will have heard Esche thank the lobbyist they used to open doors for them in the New York State legislature and the governor's office.
What happened here and how it happened is as transparent as glass and nothing unusual in New York. It the same thing again and again and it's what makes New York number 50 out of 50 when it comes to being business friendly. This isn't rocket science.
What do I do to help this area? I work everyday and pay taxes. I buy those things I can afford and I try to shop locally. I campaign for and contribute to those candidates who I believe will represent my interests. For instance I was for Griffo last time around. I won't make that mistake again. I stand up to those who are spending tax dollars in a way that I believe doesn't benefit at least the majority of taxpayers. You believe AHL hockey will make the city better. I believe that lower taxes will do that. If I can't have lower taxes then I would rather the tax money be spent for education and infrastructure rather than Aud improvements for an AHL team.
...and again what's the primary source of income and purpose for the aud? Oh yeah....hockey. You really are a tool.
Truth

Utica, NY

#135 Jun 24, 2013
Go Comets wrote:
<quoted text>
There are 5 other teams in NY all of which have had their buildings upgraded in one form or another. Do you think the teams paid for this? It is about time Utica shares in some of this funding.
Unless and until New York is able to create a business climate that encourages growth rather than reaching deeper into the pockets of the taxpayers that are still here, there should be no New York State grants for hockey anywhere. These are private sector businesses that should either sink or swim on their own merits using private venture capital.

Be realistic. There would not have been taxpayer dollars poured into the Aud in the amounts we see now had it not been for AHL hockey and the Esche/DuRoss lobbying campaign. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Look at the problems this region has. In orders of magnitude where would you say auditorium improvements falls? Any elected official who had any part of this scheme should be ridden out of town on a rail.

The video boards. In any venue I have been to that has them, they are integrated with the scoreboard for sporting events. They are part of that system and were one of the requirements of the AHL specification.
Go Comets

Hartford, CT

#136 Jun 24, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless and until New York is able to create a business climate that encourages growth rather than reaching deeper into the pockets of the taxpayers that are still here, there should be no New York State grants for hockey anywhere. These are private sector businesses that should either sink or swim on their own merits using private venture capital.
Be realistic. There would not have been taxpayer dollars poured into the Aud in the amounts we see now had it not been for AHL hockey and the Esche/DuRoss lobbying campaign. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Look at the problems this region has. In orders of magnitude where would you say auditorium improvements falls? Any elected official who had any part of this scheme should be ridden out of town on a rail.
The video boards. In any venue I have been to that has them, they are integrated with the scoreboard for sporting events. They are part of that system and were one of the requirements of the AHL specification.
Every one of those other 5 venues had hockey related upgrades such as video boards and AHL quality locker rooms because hockey is the primary use of the facility. The teams did not pay for those upgrades.

You live in some fantasy world where the government provides just the basic eessentials and we should never take tax dollars for non essential needs. I live in the real world and know this will never change and want our share that typically goes to other parts of the state.

Since: Jul 12

West Hartford, CT

#137 Jun 24, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless and until New York is able to create a business climate that encourages growth rather than reaching deeper into the pockets of the taxpayers that are still here, there should be no New York State grants for hockey anywhere. These are private sector businesses that should either sink or swim on their own merits using private venture capital.
Be realistic. There would not have been taxpayer dollars poured into the Aud in the amounts we see now had it not been for AHL hockey and the Esche/DuRoss lobbying campaign. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Look at the problems this region has. In orders of magnitude where would you say auditorium improvements falls? Any elected official who had any part of this scheme should be ridden out of town on a rail.
The video boards. In any venue I have been to that has them, they are integrated with the scoreboard for sporting events. They are part of that system and were one of the requirements of the AHL specification.
i suppose if the comets owned the aud then they should use their own money. the comets just rent the building. not any different than renting a apartment to a tenant, if the water heater starts leaking, is the tenant supposed to buy and install a new one or the landlord?? the comets want to rent a building and have to have certain things to meet Ahl standards. the aud has the choice to say yes we will do that or can say no we don't wanna do that. a lot of commercial properties are the same way. they have signs up saying will build to suit tenant.the improvements will be used and hopefully allow the aud to attract better and more shows and in return not lose money keeping it going. the aud is a asset if used properly, the last 20 years i'm sure it has lost money every year....maybe they should add up all the lost money, i'm sure it would stagger you....
True

Fulton, NY

#138 Jun 24, 2013
You are wasting your time trying to reason with the topix trolls. If it was announced that the government was going to invest 5 million for people who spend 20 hours a day looking at internet porn and making anonymous hate posts then and only then would these trolls smile. Do yourself a favor and stay off this site and let the trolls have it. Too depressing.
Truth

Utica, NY

#139 Jun 24, 2013
sticks35 wrote:
<quoted text>i suppose if the comets owned the aud then they should use their own money. the comets just rent the building. not any different than renting a apartment to a tenant, if the water heater starts leaking, is the tenant supposed to buy and install a new one or the landlord?? the comets want to rent a building and have to have certain things to meet Ahl standards. the aud has the choice to say yes we will do that or can say no we don't wanna do that. a lot of commercial properties are the same way. they have signs up saying will build to suit tenant.the improvements will be used and hopefully allow the aud to attract better and more shows and in return not lose money keeping it going. the aud is a asset if used properly, the last 20 years i'm sure it has lost money every year....maybe they should add up all the lost money, i'm sure it would stagger you....
I have to agree but only to a point. I agree with the will build to suit tenant part. In the real world though a land/property owner will only build to suit if the numbers add up right in a cost/benefit analysis. In other words I will build to suit if in the long run I am guaranteed a long term profit. That's not the case here.

The other part is that as New York State authority, the Aud Authority, may bond for maintenance, upgrades and improvements without going through the legislative process. That's why authorities were created. In this case it was a taxpayer funded handout orchestrated by our local representatives in state government and the governor. And this at a time when the state is $64 billion in debt and raising taxes and fees. It just makes no sense unless of course you like AHL hockey or if you are one of the select few who stand to profit.
Truth

Utica, NY

#140 Jun 24, 2013
I'm not sure why it is so hard for many to understand my point of view. In a nut shell, New York is a terrible place to do business because of taxes, regulations and unions. All three keep productive people away or cause productive people to leave.

Using millions of tax dollars paid by the productive people still here for projects like luring an AHL team does not help. In fact it hinders growth because it causes taxes to stay high. This same template where tax dollars are used to seed a private venture has been tried again and again. Not because it works either. It doesn't. It does make a few people richer and it does make elected officials look momentarily like they are doing some good for the area but when you peel back the layers and expose it for what it is, it's counterproductive in the long term.

How many times do we get suckered in before someone has the sense to say that these things just don't work. Many here like it because they like hockey. I asked before, what if the money was going to something that didn't interest you or that you didn't like? Would you still be so fervent in your support?
Sticks35

Bristol, CT

#141 Jun 24, 2013
Truth wrote:
I'm not sure why it is so hard for many to understand my point of view. In a nut shell, New York is a terrible place to do business because of taxes, regulations and unions. All three keep productive people away or cause productive people to leave.
Using millions of tax dollars paid by the productive people still here for projects like luring an AHL team does not help. In fact it hinders growth because it causes taxes to stay high. This same template where tax dollars are used to seed a private venture has been tried again and again. Not because it works either. It doesn't. It does make a few people richer and it does make elected officials look momentarily like they are doing some good for the area but when you peel back the layers and expose it for what it is, it's counterproductive in the long term.
How many times do we get suckered in before someone has the sense to say that these things just don't work. Many here like it because they like hockey. I asked before, what if the money was going to something that didn't interest you or that you didn't like? Would you still be so fervent in your support?
ny is a terrible place to do business. Thats why the state hands out grants to businesses like its lollipops. Us goverment is even worse.. But then again so is personal credit card debt... Its the american way... Buy now... Pay later... I only buy what I can afford... The whole way of thinking kn this country is bas akwards...

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