UP wind may power Holland and GR

Wind speeds in the UP have Holland exploring new energy options. Goetzville is in Chippewa country in the UP.

[Amazed]

even in a troubled time with the economy, wind power would benefit a lot of people, and communities.

I hope GR gets on board, and this plan follows through.

Since all the jobs are moving out of Michigan...Michigan is turning more green.

[X Republican]

The best place for windmills?? Well, we have it here. A mile off Lake Michigan is the best place for them. That is a shorter extension cord for sure!

[Xenthan]

I read this week the US just surpassed Germany as the leading producer of wind generated power in the world. Considering the land mass we have here in this country it would seem the possibilities are tremendous.

[bead head nymph]

Wind ... a great idea. Like all ideas proposed in difficult times, there may be some drawbacks; i.e.:

There are currently 126 wind generator towers on Gros Cap Ridge (NW of the Canadian Soo) but they are placed on a ridge that is astride a major migration route of raptors. There have been several dozen raptors killed each week during the migration peak for the past three years. That is a serious concern. The Goetzville plot is not far from the St Mary's River which is a major resting point for migratory waterfowl. Does anyone want to propose an "acceptable" kill of ducks, geese, swans, and shorebirds?

FYI, when the container ship hit the Bay Bridge in SF last year, the master and pilot were charged with killing migratory birds due to the resulting fuel spill.(23 charges) Is the "state" going to get a pass for each dead waterfowl left under the windmills?

Well offshore on Lake Michigan may be a better proposal but someone better rustle up a contracting and service company that is capable of installing and servicing equipment in water 150-300 feet deep. European offshore installations are set in water significantly shallower and they also do not have to deal with ice and pressure ridges at spring break up. On the other hand, there may lots of OSV's, crew boats, and dive support vessels laid off from work in the Gulf if the new administration decides to curtail offshore oil exploration and development.

[spartanman]

Interesting infomation bead head nymph. I also agree with X Republican, that off the coast of Lake Michigan is a better choice. You lose a lot of electricity from resistance the longer the distance you try to take it.

I would also like to see a renewed interest in more nuclear energy with a focus on reprocessing spent fuel rods to get the maximum power yield available from the fissable materials and a much lower ultimate volume of radioactive waste.

[Michiganian]

I am the only one who notices a huge problem??? Goetzville is over 300 miles away from Holland and Grand Rapids??? How do they plan on getting electricity to Holland from Goetzville??? They would have to string 300 miles of wires...does that seem feesable? I dont think so. And not to sound rude but I bet a lot of you, such as the person from New Mexico, have no clue where these places are. If you know how far apart they were, I dont think you would go along with it. And come to think of it, that means building power lines over the 5 mile long Straits of Mackinaw. Unrealistic!!!

[Shoeless Eluder]

Michiganian wrote:

I am the only one who notices a huge problem??? Goetzville is over 300 miles away from Holland and Grand Rapids??? How do they plan on getting electricity to Holland from Goetzville??? They would have to string 300 miles of wires...does that seem feesable? I dont think so. And not to sound rude but I bet a lot of you, such as the person from New Mexico, have no clue where these places are. If you know how far apart they were, I dont think you would go along with it. And come to think of it, that means building power lines over the 5 mile long Straits of Mackinaw. Unrealistic!!!

You must not have heard of the "smart grid". Here's how it works, all you have to do is think the power to a location, of course its poor attempt at humor. Wind power is green right? So building the infrastructure to move it also has to be green, right? Trees and fields are green, so the destruction of lots of trees and fields and wildlife habitat are whats known to me anyway as green jobs, or the jobs of the future we keep hearing about.

I think they should declare eminent domain on all the properties on look hill on the near northeast side of Grand Rapids, across from medical hill, tear down all of those old houses and put up a couple hundred wind generators.

[Michiganian]

Shoeless Eluder wrote:

<quoted text>You must not have heard of the "smart grid". Here's how it works, all you have to do is think the power to a location, of course its poor attempt at humor. Wind power is green right? So building the infrastructure to move it also has to be green, right? Trees and fields are green, so the destruction of lots of trees and fields and wildlife habitat are whats known to me anyway as green jobs, or the jobs of the future we keep hearing about.
I think they should declare eminent domain on all the properties on look hill on the near northeast side of Grand Rapids, across from medical hill, tear down all of those old houses and put up a couple hundred wind generators.

1st, what is look hill? I am guessing its a place but you didn't capatalize it so I am unsure what you are trying to say. It sounds to me as if you mean they should demolish all the old houses on Look Hill and construct some wind generators. Am a I correct? If so, I agree...building wind generators nearby is a better idea. Although earlier, you were trying to explain to me a thing call the "Smart Grid". I am still unsure how it works. All you said was building wind generators is green, and to build them u must destroy the wildlife's habitat by cutting down trees, which is not green but you said it was, I am guessing you were being sarcastic but I don't know. Anyways, I still dont see why Holland/Grand Rapids has to get their electricity from all the way up there. Why can't they get electricity from their own area which is what you may have meant by Look Hill. Maybe not but overall, I don't think they will build wind generators up there, afterall, I lived up there in the area and they wouldnt dare destroy the habitat. Those yoopers are very close to the wildlife!

[Shoeless Eluder]

Michiganian wrote:

<quoted text>
1st, what is look hill? I am guessing its a place but you didn't capatalize it so I am unsure what you are trying to say. It sounds to me as if you mean they should demolish all the old houses on Look Hill and construct some wind generators. Am a I correct? If so, I agree...building wind generators nearby is a better idea. Although earlier, you were trying to explain to me a thing call the "Smart Grid". I am still unsure how it works. All you said was building wind generators is green, and to build them u must destroy the wildlife's habitat by cutting down trees, which is not green but you said it was, I am guessing you were being sarcastic but I don't know. Anyways, I still dont see why Holland/Grand Rapids has to get their electricity from all the way up there. Why can't they get electricity from their own area which is what you may have meant by Look Hill. Maybe not but overall, I don't think they will build wind generators up there, afterall, I lived up there in the area and they wouldnt dare destroy the habitat. Those yoopers are very close to the wildlife!

Yes my comment was riddled with sarcasm.

I made a mistake I meant Lookout Hill, its a high place just northeast of Downtown Grand Rapids.

My point was basically the same as yours. It would be stupid to build a wind farm in the upper peninsula and then build a power line to Grand Rapids it would destroy all kind of things especially trees and wildlife habitat.

You haven't heard of the "smart grid" BHO talks about along with his greenies. I don't know what it is. I just figured if it is a smart grid it could think the power where it needed to go.

I guess my basic point is wind generators are not green in the sense green power that we keep hearing about.

I just wonder how many wind generators it would take to produce enough power to supply Kent and Ottawa Counties I would bet thousands of four hundred foot towers blighting the landscape of the U.P.

[Michiganian]

Shoeless Eluder wrote:

<quoted text>Yes my comment was riddled with sarcasm.
I made a mistake I meant Lookout Hill, its a high place just northeast of Downtown Grand Rapids.
My point was basically the same as yours. It would be stupid to build a wind farm in the upper peninsula and then build a power line to Grand Rapids it would destroy all kind of things especially trees and wildlife habitat.
You haven't heard of the "smart grid" BHO talks about along with his greenies. I don't know what it is. I just figured if it is a smart grid it could think the power where it needed to go.
I guess my basic point is wind generators are not green in the sense green power that we keep hearing about.
I just wonder how many wind generators it would take to produce enough power to supply Kent and Ottawa Counties I would bet thousands of four hundred foot towers blighting the landscape of the U.P.

OK, so it is Lookout Hill. Thanks for clearing that up.

I figuired there was some sarcasm but it is hard to show sarcasm on the internet.

And thanks for agreeing with me...I am glad I am not the only one who sees the error in this. Besides, I doubt it will happen, like I said earlier, the ppl of the Upper Peninsula won't go for it and I know they will protest it. The Upper Peninsula is always broadcasted as "Unspoiled Beauty" and it wont be beautiful much longer with those monstrosities.

I think if Holland/GR wants cleaner energy I say do hydro-electricity. It is much more feesable since they are right by water and it wont kill as much of the ecosystem, not since they have made them safe for marine life. I don't know if you know this but Sault Ste. Marie, MI is powered by the water and it works out GREAT!

[Shoeless Eluder]

Michiganian wrote:

<quoted text>
OK, so it is Lookout Hill. Thanks for clearing that up.
I figuired there was some sarcasm but it is hard to show sarcasm on the internet.
And thanks for agreeing with me...I am glad I am not the only one who sees the error in this. Besides, I doubt it will happen, like I said earlier, the ppl of the Upper Peninsula won't go for it and I know they will protest it. The Upper Peninsula is always broadcasted as "Unspoiled Beauty" and it wont be beautiful much longer with those monstrosities.
I think if Holland/GR wants cleaner energy I say do hydro-electricity. It is much more feesable since they are right by water and it wont kill as much of the ecosystem, not since they have made them safe for marine life. I don't know if you know this but Sault Ste. Marie, MI is powered by the water and it works out GREAT!

I could be wrong but I thought we got a lot of power from the Hydro Electric plant just south of Ludington.

[Michiganian]

Shoeless Eluder wrote:

<quoted text>I could be wrong but I thought we got a lot of power from the Hydro Electric plant just south of Ludington.

I'm not sure, I dont live anywhere near Grand Rapids

[Gentle Taz]

Shoeless Eluder wrote:

<quoted text>I could be wrong but I thought we got a lot of power from the Hydro Electric plant just south of Ludington.

The facility just south of Ludington is a stored power facility. During the night, when demand is low, they pump water into the reservoir. Then, duting the day, when demand is high, they release the water through turbines to generate electricity, thereby smoothing out variations in demand.

[Shoeless Eluder]

Gentle Taz wrote:

<quoted text>
The facility just south of Ludington is a stored power facility. During the night, when demand is low, they pump water into the reservoir. Then, duting the day, when demand is high, they release the water through turbines to generate electricity, thereby smoothing out variations in demand.

Yeah I knew that I have been there a few times it a fascinating place.

But even if they built several hydro plants like that around the state the environment would have to suffer, I except that its called progress. I really think a few hydro plants would be better than 100,000 wind generators placed all around the state.

I guess my point is no matter what kind of energy we want be it hydro wind or solar, something has to give and a few trees and and some animals will have to suffer.

[Michiganian]

Shoeless Eluder wrote:

<quoted text>Yeah I knew that I have been there a few times it a fascinating place.
But even if they built several hydro plants like that around the state the environment would have to suffer, I except that its called progress. I really think a few hydro plants would be better than 100,000 wind generators placed all around the state.
I guess my point is no matter what kind of energy we want be it hydro wind or solar, something has to give and a few trees and and some animals will have to suffer.

Agreed, however there is an alternative...we could go back to how it was in the colonial times and do with out any electricity!:) But I doubt people will go for that. And as far as tree's go, we could always plant more. And the animals, I feel bad for them, I really do since I don't think we could relocate them easily and have it be succesful, if not better than before.

[Shoeless Eluder]

Michiganian wrote:

<quoted text>
Agreed, however there is an alternative...we could go back to how it was in the colonial times and do with out any electricity!:) But I doubt people will go for that. And as far as tree's go, we could always plant more. And the animals, I feel bad for them, I really do since I don't think we could relocate them easily and have it be succesful, if not better than before.

Ah the good old days no electric or running water and taking a dump in an out house. Takes me back. What was the life expectancy about 45.

[Michiganian]

Shoeless Eluder wrote:

<quoted text>Ah the good old days no electric or running water and taking a dump in an out house. Takes me back. What was the life expectancy about 45.

Ha ha, ok, I see your point. Probably just about as rediculous as Goetzville powering GR.:)

[Mark]

We have this lovely river that continues to flow you'd think someone would put a paddlewheel of sorts on the dang river to generate power....but that would only make sense.

The Rockford city commission was trying to decide if they should start generating power out of their dam. Apparently they used to but turned it off...duh

[Mark]

I was speaking of the Grand River for the paddlewheels.

[Shoeless Eluder]

Mark wrote:

I was speaking of the Grand River for the paddlewheels.

Not that I disagree with the concept of big old water wheels powering turbines to create electric but you would need a lot of them.

Its to bad that the old hydro dams went into disrepair. The dams are still there but all they use them for now is flood control. Lets see what do we have there is a dam at 84th street and Cascade and Ada there is one in Lowell. Up north and I think they still use these Croton Dam, Hardy Dam and even further there is Tippy Dam and Hodenpyl Dam. Good clean energy, hydro electric.