Senior smokers told to quit or move out of Santa Cruz complex

Residents at San Lorenzo Park Apartments have 90 days to quit smoking or face eviction, which has come as a crushing blow to the handful of seniors who picked up the habit as teenagers and can't bear the ... Full Story

“Pearls before swine”

Since: Mar 08

Santa Cruz, CA.

#2526 Oct 8, 2010
HUGH JASS WRITES: "The judges could tell you how the SHS connection was proven, and you asked specifically how an SHS/asthma connection could be proven."

BECKY: So how come when the bar and restaurant employees union joined the Airlines industry unions to launch a lawsuit against SHS, OSHA provided evidence that at no time was any Permitted Environmental Level for any toxic substance exceeded. NOR could any health problems separate from across the board professions be isolated.

They lost their case. See: "Flight attendant loses lawsuit against tobacco companies"
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CWU/i...

“Pearls before swine”

Since: Mar 08

Santa Cruz, CA.

#2527 Oct 8, 2010
HUGH JASS WRITES: "No, but when someone comes into the forum and claims there are exactly 63 studies on SHS (when the number extends a couple of decimal places beyond that number) and then comes back to tell us that auto makers never tried to increase fuel efficiency unless the law forced them to, it provides the beginning of a foundation for calling that person a crackpot--crackpot."

BECKY: Except that I didn't say that. I said "There have been 63 separate studies on SHS PUBLISHED SINCE 1981 (and the Hiryama study).

READERS SHOULD KNOW: Of these 63 studies, for every one that shows a positive association with SHS and disease, there are six that don't. And even more importantly, the 10 studies with the largest population pool show the least amount of evidence of risk if any risk at all. Three of them, surprisingly, show that SHS PROTECTS against lung disease!!

But when you are selling demonization of tobacco smokers, you can find a study to "prove" what you want it to prove.

AS FOR GENERAL MOTORS: My father is a retired engineer and has shared many inside stories from within the industry over his 30 year career. However, I have not written these stories anywhere so I can't imagine where HJ gets his/her info from.
Generally he said that much of his work was to design the cars so that they used less raw materials in order to reduce costs and increase fuel efficiency. SOME of this was driven by govt. regulations. Some by the industry's desire to control costs and boost profits.
Hey BJ

AOL

#2528 Oct 8, 2010
Becky Johnson wrote:

BECKY:
Generally he said that much of his work was to design the cars so that they used less raw materials in order to reduce costs and increase fuel efficiency. SOME of this was driven by govt. regulations. Some by the industry's desire to control costs and boost profits.
Maybe he should've spent his time figuring out how to make a trashpile old Ford start when there's a pear stuck in the tailpipe.
LOL

Bowling Green, OH

#2529 Oct 8, 2010
Becky Johnson wrote:
BECKY: I'm glad your sister's health has improved but you can't tell anything from a single anecdote. Only if you look at large pools of population over a significant amount of time, can you find actual data recording an effect on the health of a population.
No, I'm not a tobacco smoker and don't like it. but I'm against this witch hunt under the guise of political correctness. And JUNK science dominates the anti-smoking movement.
Becky, would you care to explain why 90% of people who have died of lung cancer are smokers? We're talking about millions of people who are 'pooled' together in this population and 90% of them have 1 thing in common...they all smoke. ;) How's that for 'junk science'? Even the tobacco company acknowledges these facts. They just profit off of other people's stupidity while killing them slowly. I always get a kick out of the smokers saying..."how many people have dropped dead at a bar” IDIOTS!! Cancer doesn't one day just come into your system and kill you!!! It's a very SLOW and PAINFUL process. You'll know when you get lung cancer, trust me!! I'd have to say the majority of people who die of lung cancer- aren't out celebrating at a bar while they're dying- they're probably in a hospital or on a bed at home.
Amused

Nashville, TN

#2530 Oct 8, 2010
Becky Johnson wrote:
HUGH JASS WRITES: "No, but when someone comes into the forum and claims there are exactly 63 studies on SHS (when the number extends a couple of decimal places beyond that number) and then comes back to tell us that auto makers never tried to increase fuel efficiency unless the law forced them to, it provides the beginning of a foundation for calling that person a crackpot--crackpot."
BECKY: Except that I didn't say that. I said "There have been 63 separate studies on SHS PUBLISHED SINCE 1981 (and the Hiryama study).
I demand a recount.

http://no-smoke.org/pdf/SHSBibliography.pdf
Becky Johnson wrote:
AS FOR GENERAL MOTORS: My father is a retired engineer and has shared many inside stories from within the industry over his 30 year career. However, I have not written these stories anywhere so I can't imagine where HJ gets his/her info from.
From POST 2500:
Becky Johnson wrote:
BECKY: The automobile industry was COMPELLED to lower their emissions by law. They NEVER did a thing on their own! My dad is a retired engineer at one of the big auto companies and he has confirmed this for me.
Now, how do you justify that "NEVER" in light of the examples I cited? What law required the Prius or the Volt? What law required Ford's hybrids? Moreover, how do you address the R&D that Volvo put into its light-weight-component project a few decades ago when there was a supposed "gas crunch" due to reduced oil production? They shelved the concept when the "crisis" blew over, but it was entirely their OWN idea to go into it in the first place.

Again, Crackpot.
Hugh Jass

Nashville, TN

#2531 Oct 8, 2010
LOL wrote:
<quoted text>
Becky, would you care to explain why 90% of people who have died of lung cancer are smokers? We're talking about millions of people who are 'pooled' together in this population and 90% of them have 1 thing in common...they all smoke. ;) How's that for 'junk science'? Even the tobacco company acknowledges these facts.
Actually, there was a tobacco company exec who stated over a decade ago that they would never find "an unbiased scientist" who would say that SHS is harmless.

Their efforts to create, exploit, and publicize OTHER types of scientist were a large part of what got them convicted as comprising a racketeer-influenced and corrupt organization. It is also a large part of what keeps the addicts and tobacco-apologists on Topix afloat.
Hugh Jass

Nashville, TN

#2532 Oct 8, 2010
the original curious cat wrote:
this is from CorpWatch, one of the most highly respected monitors of corporations and human rights violations:
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php...
I did a quick googling to find a Canadian company convicted of involvement in smuggling, and this is the results page:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=Canada%22t...

There is more info there than I could get to on a timed net connection, but the one company I remembered was RJR-MacDonald.
the original curious cat

Santa Cruz, CA

#2533 Oct 9, 2010
Hugh Jass wrote:
<quoted text>
I did a quick googling to find a Canadian company convicted of involvement in smuggling, and this is the results page:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=Canada%22t...
There is more info there than I could get to on a timed net connection, but the one company I remembered was RJR-MacDonald.
it sounds like Big Tobacco, not just one or two tobacco companies, work with organized crime to smuggle on a grand scale. is this correct?
Hugh Jass

Nashville, TN

#2534 Oct 10, 2010
the original curious cat wrote:
<quoted text>
it sounds like Big Tobacco, not just one or two tobacco companies, work with organized crime to smuggle on a grand scale. is this correct?
There seem to be a lot of cases backing that assumption. Nothing proves they collaborated in this, but they ARE known to have been conspiring to work as a team for decades and involvement in the smuggling seems to have been pretty widespread.
John Colby Alert

Santa Cruz, CA

#2535 Oct 23, 2013
history of shame wrote:
<quoted text>
These incidents have been going on since the former chain smoking manager Bonnie Schroff was hired here about ten years ago and called Mission Gardens "a smoking property". She organized and led the gang of smokers who have terrorized the rest of the residents. She was gone as of May 15, 2009, but her gang remains, protected by The John Stewart Company only because they refuse to admit criminals live in the apartment complexes they manage. Its about money and preserving an advertised image.
I was interviewed by KION News, but I was too scared to show my face (as I would be an easy target for gang bangers and resident drug abusers). I was interviewed for about five minutes and spoke off-camera for another five. so what got into the article is only the tip of the the iceberg: even more was in the news segment. i hope KION revisits ongoing crime at Mission Gardens, since we need it exposed to persuade the SCPD to shut it down (since The John Stewart Company protects it).
http://www.kionrightnow.com/global/story.asp...
Archived. John, you really a dim bulb. LOL!!!
John Colby Alert

Santa Cruz, CA

#2536 Oct 23, 2013
the original curious cat wrote:
<quoted text>
thanx. arguing with posters who are in denial has become quite tiring. they ignore numerous studies and dismiss my sister's and my experiences as 'anecdotal'. if this is so anecdotal, why does HUD's FHEO investigate housing discrimination based upon disabled tenants being exposed to SHS?
why do they deny, deny and deny some more. this is the strategy of the extreme right wing called the big lie. if you keep repeating the same preposterous lie over and over again, ad nauseam, people begin to believe it. this is why most Americans think Saddam Hussein was connected to 9/11, evidence to the contrary.
Peekaboo John.
John Colby Alert

Santa Cruz, CA

#2537 Oct 23, 2013
the original curious cat wrote:
<quoted text>
you can easily isolate SHS from a single average tobacco smoker. my sister's health was fine until she moved above chain-smokers. soon her apartment smelled like she was a chain-smoker too. her medical records show that her health significantly deteriorated during her exposure to this. she had episodic events of asphyxiation. after she moved away from these chain-smokers her medical records show her health improved significantly.
when a smoker lights up next to me, i have an asthma attack and get a sinus headache.
if these events don't isolate SHS from air pollution what does?
why do you so strongly deny what numerous studies support. do you work for the Tobacco Industry? i suppose you are a smoker, or support smoking because many homeless individuals smoke ...
Hmmmmm...very, very interesting. So much information you have given us from this "John the Opportunist" post! LOL!!!!

So much fun watching/reading reruns of John Colby's...well ya know....

Archived!!!
John Colby Alert

Santa Cruz, CA

#2538 Oct 23, 2013
Becky Johnson wrote:
THE ORIGINAL CURIOUS CAT WRITES: "you can easily isolate SHS from a single average tobacco smoker. my sister's health was fine until she moved above chain-smokers. soon her apartment smelled like she was a chain-smoker too. her medical records show that her health significantly deteriorated during her exposure to this. she had episodic events of asphyxiation. after she moved away from these chain-smokers her medical records show her health improved significantly."
BECKY: I'm glad your sister's health has improved but you can't tell anything from a single anecdote. Only if you look at large pools of population over a significant amount of time, can you find actual data recording an effect on the health of a population.
Significantly large studies have been done over several years of time following World War 11 in which a significant data pool of smokers living with a non-smoking spouse could be tracked over the course of several years. Statistically it took 20 to 30 years of exposure to show ANY blip upwards for lung cancer or lung disease.
There could have been any number of factors affecting your sister from roach pesticides, paint, carpet fumes, or asbestos ceiling materials which could explain your sister's condition.
As for yourself, tobacco is very noticeable, and has a pungent and disagreeable odor. One can easily avoid it. But carbon monoxide, which is truly deadly, is colorless and odorless.
No, I'm not a tobacco smoker and don't like it. but I'm against this witch hunt under the guise of political correctness. And JUNK science dominates the anti-smoking movement.
Interesting... And all this time, John, I thought you and BJ were Besties! LOLLLL
John Colby Alert

Santa Cruz, CA

#2539 Oct 23, 2013
the original curious cat wrote:
<quoted text>
stay on topic or move on to another forum. you are using a talking point from numerous "tobacco rights" websites. just stop or move to a more appropriate forum for your opinions.
what you are doing is called the "bait and switch" argument.
TOO much FUN!! Oh, LOL, John!!!

WOW!! John Colby, You are a hoot!! ok ok ok LOL!!!

"Stay on topic or move on to another forum"
"just stop or move to a more appropriate forum for your opinions" (this one applies to you also, Pat)
"What you are doing is called the 'bait and switch' argument".

Johnny and Phatty... I gotta say,(besides the obvious) you two are.......... LOLLLLLLLL
qeenieson

Pittsburgh, PA

#2540 Oct 24, 2013
youtube.com/watch... ……………… This is amazing
Phil

Winnipeg, Canada

#2541 Oct 24, 2013
the original curious cat wrote:
<quoted text>
thanx. arguing with posters who are in denial has become quite tiring. they ignore numerous studies and dismiss my sister's and my experiences as 'anecdotal'. if this is so anecdotal, why does HUD's FHEO investigate housing discrimination based upon disabled tenants being exposed to SHS?
why do they deny, deny and deny some more. this is the strategy of the extreme right wing called the big lie. if you keep repeating the same preposterous lie over and over again, ad nauseam, people begin to believe it. this is why most Americans think Saddam Hussein was connected to 9/11, evidence to the contrary.
Hugh Jazz is an idiot. He has spent more time on the evils of smoking that he should be an expert. All he has ever done is seek to affirm his stand not confirm. He is right that cigarette companies were, and probably still are, involved in undergone activity keeping some people linked with their substance of choice. If a dealer was selling meth to 15 year olds he might get it that these young people may end up in the courts or hospitals and costing society.But, not smokers. Now perhaps there should be buildings that accept that smoking, in many cases, is addiction based not merely a social activity like a non alcoholic having a drink or two.
These people need to live somewhere either in all smoking units or in places that would be built to minimize invasion of smoke from suite to suite and be open only to people that would be satisfied with that. Instead he believes that the addiction side of smoking and the smoking industry can be dreamed away as if they never existed.That has become part of the problem that makes it so hard to achieve a resolution.He is his own worst enemy.Banning , punishing , scaring and ostracizing etc are far less likely to see society moving in the desired direction than working with them. It seems as if smoking in younger people is rising again.
If can't provide treatment for the smokers you will always have victims of the habit.
DBSs skank speaks

Pleasant Hill, CA

#2543 Oct 26, 2013
John Colby Alert wrote:
<quoted text>
Peekaboo John.
oinkDBSoink

she's out of beer, better go get her more COORS, she's DUI, unregistered and uninsured. SCPD is after her!
Oh Bird

Pleasant Hill, CA

#2544 Oct 26, 2013
John Colby Alert wrote:
<quoted text>
Peekaboo John.
Grab another BEER, Shut UP, and get some INSURANCE on your death sedan.
BTW: STOP driving DUI before you KILL someone.

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#2545 Oct 26, 2013
hey
Raleigh

Santa Cruz, CA

#2546 Oct 26, 2013
DBSs skank speaks wrote:
<quoted text>
oinkDBSoink
she's out of beer, better go get her more COORS, she's DUI, unregistered and uninsured. SCPD is after her!
Are you typing from the confines of a closet?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Santa Cruz Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Is Santa Cruz County a HIV/HPV Dead Zone?? 36 min John stigmata 11
John Colby is NOT Paul Mendoza on Indycrap and ... 4 hr JC squats to pee 21
Stolen Valor Act signed by Obama- 5 hr yEAHHHHHH 9
cfabsc (Jan '14) 6 hr camp king 589
Will DBS pull another stalker 'All Nighter'?? (May '14) 6 hr DBS 83
The 11th for the 11! Call Bob Lee (Mar '14) 6 hr DBS 11
Will Father Time buy DBS another house? (Dec '13) 7 hr John Colby 21
The stigmata of being a wannabe in TBSC- 10 hr Ranger Smallace 41

High Wind Watch for Santa Cruz County was issued at December 28 at 1:55PM PST

Santa Cruz Dating
Find my Match
More from around the web

Santa Cruz People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Santa Cruz News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Santa Cruz

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]

NFL Latest News

Updated 3:54 pm PST