Do you think Becky Johnson and Robert Norse are...

Created by Craig on Apr 24, 2008

1,319 votes

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Effective

Not Effective

A Waste of Time

Helping The Homeless

Hurting The Homeless

Gary

Santa Cruz, CA

#29 Apr 25, 2008
Interesting that both Dave and Ron, two "effective" voters, live in Felton.
Where Robert lives.
rita

Jamestown, CA

#30 Apr 25, 2008
Pat Kittle wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you'd like to clean up the massive filth their wonderful bums leave in our local forests.
Becky & Robert sure can't be bothered.
I'm always picking up other peoples litter! Homeless peop;e are certainly not alone in this area. You just use the forum to complain and gripe to fill in your pathetic, hateful life. Never come up with constructive solutions. And, yes, not being able to sleep is a major human rights violation. Have you ever tried to put yourself in someone elses shoes? The edxprience just might open your heart and mind
Brian

Santa Cruz, CA

#32 Apr 25, 2008
Actions and results speak louder than words.

In all their years of "activism" they have accomplished nothing. Is the homeless community really any better off in Santa Cruz today after all this time?

No.
Pat Kittle

Santa Cruz, CA

#33 Apr 25, 2008
Becky Johnson wrote:
HUFF supports opening a homeless campground on 2 or 3 acres of the over 2,000 acres of greenbelt, parkland, and open space found within the City limits of Santa Cruz. This would not only provide homeless people with a much better living situation than the armory/ISSP which is available in the night only, but would reduce the impact of illegal camping in the greenbelt/parkland areas.
HUFF also advocates for a night-time only carpark at the Emeline County Services complex which is out of sight of all homes and businesses.What say you Pat?
We've already been through this, but you never listen.

One more time:

Destroying 3 acres of wildlands for your "homeless campsite" would be a huge magnet for every bum in the country who heard of it, and word like that gets around fast.

But Robert claims the "magnet effect" doesn't apply -- he says making things more attractive for bums would not attract more bums.

Curiously, on his radio show Robert argued against widening Highway 1 because it would be more attractive for "yuppies commuting to Silicon Valley" and therefore more "yuppies would commute to Silicon Valley."

I asked Robert why he thought the magnet effect only worked for commuters but not for bums. He tried to change the subject, but I kept pressing the question. Of course he never did answer. You still can't answer that.

So it's obvious your campsite would soon be maxxed out. You'd then tell us what a success it is, and demand it be expanded. If we refused, you'd claim that the bums ruining our local forest were our fault for not expanding your campsite.

If the bums we've already got won't clean up their filth, hordes of additional bums sure aren't going to.

And what makes you think your legal campsite would not soon be overrun with illegals and all the trouble they bring?

Our greenbelts are for non-humans and the humans who respect them. They serve eco-system functions I won't bore you with. They are not there to be chipped away at by ever more needy humans, including overbreeding welfare cases like yourself.

Now get off your butt and go clean them up.
rita

Jamestown, CA

#34 Apr 25, 2008
So, people who live in ticky tacky houses and drive hummers can no longer go the the park?
Thanks for clearing that us, Pat. We have a serious homeless problem in this country, it is getting worse. Sticking to screaming about the few hardcore and doing nothing about any group just keeps your blood pressure up and the suffering continues. Stop hiring those undocumented workers to clean those houses and maintain their gardens and there won't be a problem. Always here you gripping about workers and not saying anything about some contractor paying less than living wage so he can keep buying new trucks and go to Cabo.
Pat Kittle

Santa Cruz, CA

#35 Apr 25, 2008
rita wrote:
So, people who live in ticky tacky houses and drive hummers can no longer go the the park?
Thanks for clearing that us, Pat. We have a serious homeless problem in this country, it is getting worse. Sticking to screaming about the few hardcore and doing nothing about any group just keeps your blood pressure up and the suffering continues. Stop hiring those undocumented workers to clean those houses and maintain their gardens and there won't be a problem. Always here you gripping about workers and not saying anything about some contractor paying less than living wage so he can keep buying new trucks and go to Cabo.
My blood pressure's fine, how's yours?

I can't stop hiring illegals ("undocumented workers" as you quaintly put it) because I never started hiring them.

"Hire an illegal, go to jail." Is that clear enough for you?

Your "few hardcore" are making a hellacious mess of our local wildlands, and snivellers like you don't do a damn thing to clean them up. Until you do, you're just a self-pitying hypocrite.

Not surprisingly you completely ignore overbreeding, which makes poor people poorer, so you are part of the problem. Congratulations!
Pat Kittle

Santa Cruz, CA

#36 Apr 25, 2008
Mean Hornet wrote:
<quoted text>
Pat, not all homeless leave huge messes behind...I have worked on projects where a homeless camper had picked up over 300 large bags of garbage left behind by beach goers. My crews carried the garbage bags off the beach to a rented dumpster. The property owner was happy the homeless guy was camped there.
Pat, I have cleaned up many a dump site that was created by non-homless folks. Did you ever walk through the mess students would make at elf-land?
Heres a hot tip if you are illegaly camping...leave your site cleaner than you found it, when you are discovered the property owner will be much happer than if they find a huge mess.
Pack it in...Pack it out.
I know some homeless people live exemplary lives. At least one of them is a good friend of mine, who not only cleans up others' filth, but removes non-native plants as well.

But you know very well people like that are the rare exception.

I'll be glad to show you places I had completely cleaned up, and what they look like again today.

Maybe you'd like to clean them up this time -- if your "hot tip" doesn't magically motivate the bums.
gobike

Santa Cruz, CA

#37 Apr 25, 2008
RObert Norse is so yesterday... No one gives a flying hoot over him anymore. Your day is done buddy. We've got more important things going on right now than caring about the homelessness. 62 percent of the survey proves so, they are either hurting the homeless or wasting their time. Furthemore, you think every time you bobo's get up to speak to the BOS they actually even listen to what you are saying anymore? C'mon now, you are about as effective as Michael Moore is these days. Find some other cause. How's about deporting illegal gang members who are destroying our society? I think that would not fall on deaf ears anytime soon.
steve

Salinas, CA

#38 Apr 25, 2008
WORK. The one word that solves the homeless problem.
Mean Hornet

San Francisco, CA

#39 Apr 25, 2008
Pat Kittle wrote:
<quoted text>
I know some homeless people live exemplary lives. At least one of them is a good friend of mine, who not only cleans up others' filth, but removes non-native plants as well.
But you know very well people like that are the rare exception.
I'll be glad to show you places I had completely cleaned up, and what they look like again today.
Maybe you'd like to clean them up this time -- if your "hot tip" doesn't magically motivate the bums.
More than likly we have both cleaned up the same sites at diffrent times. I do have to agree that homeless who leave areas cleaner are the exception, but they are so helpful when they do it had to be mentioned.

In all fairness I have cleaned up alot of sites trashed by non-homeless folks, There was a guy on Kings Creek road that had years of garbage in his yard and in Kings Creek as well.

The thing I find most ironic is how most homeless advocates will not even tour the campsites. I tried at one point to get some of these advocates to help write a spec. so we wern't throwing out someones valuable "personal possesions" Its hard to know what is trash and what is property on these sites. Not one advocate responded to me, Robert Norse can verify this as I yelled at him later for it. Sorry Robert but you know its gods truth.
Pat Kittle

Santa Cruz, CA

#40 Apr 25, 2008
Mean Hornet wrote:
<quoted text>
More than likly we have both cleaned up the same sites at diffrent times. I do have to agree that homeless who leave areas cleaner are the exception, but they are so helpful when they do it had to be mentioned.
In all fairness I have cleaned up alot of sites trashed by non-homeless folks, There was a guy on Kings Creek road that had years of garbage in his yard and in Kings Creek as well.
The thing I find most ironic is how most homeless advocates will not even tour the campsites. I tried at one point to get some of these advocates to help write a spec. so we wern't throwing out someones valuable "personal possesions" Its hard to know what is trash and what is property on these sites. Not one advocate responded to me, Robert Norse can verify this as I yelled at him later for it. Sorry Robert but you know its gods truth.
If bums make a mess and won't clean it up, it's their problem if the everything in the mess gets cleaned up by others.
Sincerely curious

San Francisco, CA

#42 Apr 25, 2008
Becky Johnson wrote:
HUFF supports opening a homeless campground on 2 or 3 acres of the over 2,000 acres of greenbelt, parkland, and open space found within the City limits of Santa Cruz. This would not only provide homeless people with a much better living situation than the armory/ISSP which is available in the night only, but would reduce the impact of illegal camping in the greenbelt/parkland areas.
HUFF also advocates for a night-time only carpark at the Emeline County Services complex which is out of sight of all homes and businesses.What say you Pat?
I'm curious: do advocates for the homeless make any distinction between "travelers" and local folks who've been contributing members of our community but fallen on hard times?

I'd like to see my tax dollars go to support community members in need and services for the mentally ill and addicted. But I'm not so fond of paying for services for people who travel here to take advantage of the safety net that I think should be intended for our own. Of the homeless I've talked to over the years, an astonishing number are recent arrivals, drawn here by what we offer. Also disturbing are reports from law enforcement friends in Sonoma County and San Luis Obispo county who say it's not unheard of to put a homeless person on a bus with a one-way ticket to Santa Cruz.

Yes, some of this is lore, but my question still stands: do you advocate for all homeless from all corners of the country to come here to receive services or do you distinguish between "our homeless" and "travelers". If you do distinguish, how?
Pat Kittle

Santa Cruz, CA

#43 Apr 25, 2008
rita wrote:
Pat, you talk out of both sides of your mouth. pseudo-intellectual masturbator (in a red nick kind of way) that you be.
Well that's pretty articulate of you. Could you be more specific?
Pat Kittle

Santa Cruz, CA

#44 Apr 25, 2008
Sincerely curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm curious: do advocates for the homeless make any distinction between "travelers" and local folks who've been contributing members of our community but fallen on hard times?
I'd like to see my tax dollars go to support community members in need and services for the mentally ill and addicted. But I'm not so fond of paying for services for people who travel here to take advantage of the safety net that I think should be intended for our own. Of the homeless I've talked to over the years, an astonishing number are recent arrivals, drawn here by what we offer. Also disturbing are reports from law enforcement friends in Sonoma County and San Luis Obispo county who say it's not unheard of to put a homeless person on a bus with a one-way ticket to Santa Cruz.
Yes, some of this is lore, but my question still stands: do you advocate for all homeless from all corners of the country to come here to receive services or do you distinguish between "our homeless" and "travelers". If you do distinguish, how?
Of course it wouldn't just be the "homeless from all corners of the country to come here to receive services" -- they'd also come from all corners of Mexico and beyond.

The very woodland site Becky & Robert want to sacrifice for their homeless campsite is a ten minute walk from Lumbermans' where the illegals who hassle women customers hang out.
Pat Kittle

Santa Cruz, CA

#45 Apr 25, 2008
rita wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm always picking up other peoples litter! Homeless peop;e are certainly not alone in this area. You just use the forum to complain and gripe to fill in your pathetic, hateful life. Never come up with constructive solutions. And, yes, not being able to sleep is a major human rights violation. Have you ever tried to put yourself in someone elses shoes? The edxprience just might open your heart and mind
You're a fine one to talk about others who "gripe to fill in [their] pathetic, hateful life" -- it seems like that description fits you perfectly.

As for your cleaning up after the bums who infest our wildlands -- every bum I ever encounter in the forest insists they clean up after themself AND others. With all you righteous conscientious folks out there, it's funny how the filth just keeps piling up, isn't it?

“Pearls before swine”

Since: Mar 08

Santa Cruz, CA.

#46 Apr 25, 2008
SINCERELY CURIOUS WRITES:
I'm curious: do advocates for the homeless make any distinction between "travelers" and local folks who've been contributing members of our community but fallen on hard times?
I'd like to see my tax dollars go to support community members in need and services for the mentally ill and addicted. But I'm not so fond of paying for services for people who travel here to take advantage of the safety net that I think should be intended for our own."

BECKY: HUFF does NOT distinguish who should receive services or have human rights. Homeless people who were born in Santa Cruz need to sleep at night as much as the person who arrived yesterday. The right to be free from selective enforcement, allowed to shelter themselves from the elements in a City with inadequate shelter, and to have their rights to life, liberty, and property intact is what HUFF works for. We do this in individual advocacy, such as going to court with homeless people who request our help, or on behalf of all homeless people, such as our efforts to get the Sleeping Ban repealed.

However, most of the homeless people in Santa Cruz last had housing in Santa Cruz County. At most, 10% are from another state. Homeless people don't migrate thousands of miles for a free meal or to sleep on the floor of a church. They migrate for the same reason that housed people do: to where they can get employment or have family or friends as a support network. Hence, there is no "homeless magnet."
Brian

Santa Cruz, CA

#47 Apr 25, 2008
Becky Johnson wrote:
However, most of the homeless people in Santa Cruz last had housing in Santa Cruz County. At most, 10% are from another state. Homeless people don't migrate thousands of miles for a free meal or to sleep on the floor of a church.
BS Becky. I would like you to provide where that figure comes from. And please, nothing from "High Times" Or "Street Sheet". Please provide this information in a timely manner, as you request from others.
Pat Kittle

Santa Cruz, CA

#48 Apr 25, 2008
Becky Johnson wrote:
SINCERELY CURIOUS WRITES:
I'm curious: do advocates for the homeless make any distinction between "travelers" and local folks who've been contributing members of our community but fallen on hard times?
I'd like to see my tax dollars go to support community members in need and services for the mentally ill and addicted. But I'm not so fond of paying for services for people who travel here to take advantage of the safety net that I think should be intended for our own."
BECKY: HUFF does NOT distinguish who should receive services or have human rights. Homeless people who were born in Santa Cruz need to sleep at night as much as the person who arrived yesterday. The right to be free from selective enforcement, allowed to shelter themselves from the elements in a City with inadequate shelter, and to have their rights to life, liberty, and property intact is what HUFF works for. We do this in individual advocacy, such as going to court with homeless people who request our help, or on behalf of all homeless people, such as our efforts to get the Sleeping Ban repealed.
However, most of the homeless people in Santa Cruz last had housing in Santa Cruz County. At most, 10% are from another state. Homeless people don't migrate thousands of miles for a free meal or to sleep on the floor of a church. They migrate for the same reason that housed people do: to where they can get employment or have family or friends as a support network. Hence, there is no "homeless magnet."
You say of the homeless: "At most, 10% are from another state."

So you're OK with all services being denied beyond that?

You lie up a storm.
realistic

Oakland, CA

#49 Apr 25, 2008
The figure for 10.5% coming from another state (or country) comes from the 2007 Homeless Census and Survey. This census methodology, while far from perfect, has won awards for accuracy from, I think, some federal agency. You can also show from it that the actual homeless rate in Santa Cruz County is lower than average.
You can find it on the Santa Cruz County website.
Brian

Santa Cruz, CA

#50 Apr 25, 2008
Ok. My bad. I read that wrong. So please let us know how many of these homeless are not from the City of Santa Cruz, or the County of Santa Cruz.
You see people on the street all the time that are from no where near here. And it's more than 10%.

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