Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#66490
Jan 28, 2014
 
I'm not sure how sinister that is. I have found that when I make a post behind a VPN (which I do frequently while traveling) that post almost never makes it to the general forum. I can see it, but no one else can and it looks very much like a deleted post (except that it never makes it up to be deleted).

When I'm working or traveling, I make my posts with an iPhone which is problematic in itself as I tend to be verbose and have poor motor skills.

There is some algorithm in Topix that tries to reconcile your detected location with your IP address and will choke if something seems amiss. Which is odd, you can be a raving loon, antisemite and that's OK, but post from the wrong location and suddenly you're not Topix material.

Weird

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66491
Jan 28, 2014
 
Rick Moss wrote:
I'm not sure how sinister that is. I have found that when I make a post behind a VPN (which I do frequently while traveling) that post almost never makes it to the general forum. I can see it, but no one else can and it looks very much like a deleted post (except that it never makes it up to be deleted).
When I'm working or traveling, I make my posts with an iPhone which is problematic in itself as I tend to be verbose and have poor motor skills.
There is some algorithm in Topix that tries to reconcile your detected location with your IP address and will choke if something seems amiss. Which is odd, you can be a raving loon, antisemite and that's OK, but post from the wrong location and suddenly you're not Topix material.
Weird
In Joels case I am pretty certain there was a human involved, because he was complaining that a bunch of his posts didnt make it through - and there was a gap in the numberings. He blamed it on us Jews - his argument being that we were offended (like we cared enough to report him).

So as an experiment I tried to report him and discovered I would have to own up to my email address - which aborted the experiment and made me wonder again who would bother. Then a few posts later he did say something really offensive, and I complained IN a post (not using the report function), and POOF! he disappeared for a few more posts. Basically I think there was a moderator who was fcking with him. Looking for an excuse. This forum has about 60000+ posts - it would be logical that somewhere within Topix admin that someone has noticed us here.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#66492
Jan 28, 2014
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>In Joels case I am pretty certain there was a human involved, because he was complaining that a bunch of his posts didnt make it through - and there was a gap in the numberings. He blamed it on us Jews - his argument being that we were offended (like we cared enough to report him).

So as an experiment I tried to report him and discovered I would have to own up to my email address - which aborted the experiment and made me wonder again who would bother. Then a few posts later he did say something really offensive, and I complained IN a post (not using the report function), and POOF! he disappeared for a few more posts. Basically I think there was a moderator who was fcking with him. Looking for an excuse. This forum has about 60000+ posts - it would be logical that somewhere within Topix admin that someone has noticed us here.
I'm unconvinced there are any actual moderators here - at least on any regular basis. I think it's completely automated. For example, if you type on certain words or phrases the system will block you from posting with a warning about offensive language. Sometime the results are pretty funny. I've had the metaphorical phrase 'you kill me' blocked for being offensive.

Having a post auto blocked for 'offensive' language does seem to trigger a human response even after it's edited to remove the offending content.

The IP address theory makes sense to me because it works so intermittently. It will block posts randomly so appears to be selective.

People using VPN is pretty common in India. Because local ISPs censor pretty heavily, it's the only way for most Indians to get porn and bootleg torrents.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66493
Jan 29, 2014
 
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm unconvinced there are any actual moderators here - at least on any regular basis. I think it's completely automated. For example, if you type on certain words or phrases the system will block you from posting with a warning about offensive language. Sometime the results are pretty funny. I've had the metaphorical phrase 'you kill me' blocked for being offensive.
Having a post auto blocked for 'offensive' language does seem to trigger a human response even after it's edited to remove the offending content.
The IP address theory makes sense to me because it works so intermittently. It will block posts randomly so appears to be selective.
People using VPN is pretty common in India. Because local ISPs censor pretty heavily, it's the only way for most Indians to get porn and bootleg torrents.
My theory would assume that any human presence would be on an irregular basis.Moderators used to be volunteer positions. Probably your IP theory as well. The theoreies would not be exclusive.

These days my judging button does not work. Maybe it is an Adobe Flash problem (have had that issue in the past). Maybe it is something more nefarious. In the past, I once lost this ability after engaging in a torturous judging spree against someone, and then it miraculously returned. So I know I tripped something, human or more likely algorithmic. This time around it has happened out of the blue - been that way for a few days, Nor that I miss it - I could care less. But worth mentioning.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#66494
Jan 29, 2014
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>My theory would assume that any human presence would be on an irregular basis.Moderators used to be volunteer positions. Probably your IP theory as well. The theoreies would not be exclusive.

These days my judging button does not work. Maybe it is an Adobe Flash problem (have had that issue in the past). Maybe it is something more nefarious. In the past, I once lost this ability after engaging in a torturous judging spree against someone, and then it miraculously returned. So I know I tripped something, human or more likely algorithmic. This time around it has happened out of the blue - been that way for a few days, Nor that I miss it - I could care less. But worth mentioning.
There was a time when Topix would charge $9 to report a post. Not sure why they stopped. I'm sure it wasn't an attack of guilty conscience.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66495
Jan 29, 2014
 
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
There was a time when Topix would charge $9 to report a post. Not sure why they stopped. I'm sure it wasn't an attack of guilty conscience.
Probably because no one bothered. Would you pay 9 bucks? And possibly because of some American regulation.

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#66496
Jan 29, 2014
 

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...Murder, on the other hand is a completely different thing involving the deliberate killing of a person not in the defence of ourselves or others and (most of the time) I agree it's impolite to murder someone.
Unless god says it's okay. I forget who it was that said religion can make otherwise moral people do immoral things - and this is true of most religions.

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#66497
Jan 29, 2014
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
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Unless god says it's okay. I forget who it was that said religion can make otherwise moral people do immoral things - and this is true of most religions.
the quote was that it made otherwise moral people do disgusting things, and the author was none other than Christopher Hitchens, a drunk.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#66498
Jan 29, 2014
 

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Cult of Reason wrote:
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Unless god says it's okay. I forget who it was that said religion can make otherwise moral people do immoral things - and this is true of most religions.
It's safe to say that an equal to or greater number of people have been stopped or dissuaded from doing immoral things by the tenets of their faiths.

Given that none of us are able to see into the hearts of others, we don't know.

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#66499
Jan 29, 2014
 

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Frijoles wrote:
the quote was that it made otherwise moral people do disgusting things, and the author was none other than Christopher Hitchens, a drunk.
Ad hominem? That seems a bit harsh calling him a drunk, as if that somehow diminishes his contributions (do you refer to Hemingway, Poe, Churchill, etc... as simply drunks, without acknowledging their contributions?)

Yes, it's well known that Hitchens drank a lot, but, whether you agree with his positions or not, his drinking certainly didn't diminish his wit or intellect in any discernible manner. He killed it in most debates.

Besides, I prefer to focus on the message, not the messanger.

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#66500
Jan 29, 2014
 

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Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
It's safe to say that an equal to or greater number of people have been stopped or dissuaded from doing immoral things by the tenets of their faiths.
Disagree.

I would argue that if a person needs religion to act morally, then there is something fundamentally wrong with them.

I would also argue that when people do moral things ,they do so out of innate empathy for their fellow humans (or other living creatures), and not because religion told them to.

Besides, I would far rather trust a person who did good out of their empathetic nature over someone who was doing a good deed simply because they're afraid of the "punishment" they might receive in the afterlife if they didn't.

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#66501
Jan 29, 2014
 

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Cult of Reason wrote:
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Ad hominem? That seems a bit harsh calling him a drunk, as if that somehow diminishes his contributions (do you refer to Hemingway, Poe, Churchill, etc... as simply drunks, without acknowledging their contributions?)
Yes, it's well known that Hitchens drank a lot, but, whether you agree with his positions or not, his drinking certainly didn't diminish his wit or intellect in any discernible manner. He killed it in most debates.
Besides, I prefer to focus on the message, not the messanger.
Exactly - you got my point

now reverse it. Person kills. Is it because of the person or his occupation?

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#66502
Jan 29, 2014
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
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Disagree.
Your right. But, if you're trying to convince anyone but yourself (you seem already convinced)... bring data.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#66503
Jan 29, 2014
 

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Cult of Reason wrote:
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...Besides, I would far rather trust a person who did good out of their empathetic nature over someone who was doing a good deed simply because they're afraid of the "punishment" they might receive in the afterlife if they didn't.
I can see you have significantly greater exposure to Xtianity than to Judaism. In Xtianity, the threat of eternal damnation is held over the head of all believers. Hell awaits unrepentant sinners.

In Judaism, there is a moral imperative to make the world a better place -- tikkun olam (quite literally "heal the world"). This isn't a biblical injunction that comes with a threat of punishment but as a benefit to social harmony. The torah, indeed all Jewish scripture, is extremely vague on the subject of the afterlife, it's punishments or rewards.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#66504
Jan 29, 2014
 
Rick Moss wrote:
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Your right. But, if you're trying to convince anyone but yourself (you seem already convinced)... bring data.
I should point out, because the words are so often confused -- I mean this IS your right -- not you ARE right.

Normally I wouldn't need to point that out because vocal inflection would make it clear.
HughBe

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#66505
Jan 29, 2014
 
Rick Moss wrote:
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Would a Jew ridicule his own beliefs? Have you ever MET a Jew? We're not hard to find. Talk to your boss, your landlord, your parole officer ... try to get some first hand information on us.
Do I believe Judaism is better than other faiths? Yes, but only for me. I believe that whatever you believe is best for you (and if it's not, why would you believe it?).
Rick Moss ---Would a Jew ridicule his own beliefs?

HughBe--- 1. What beliefs are you talking about? 2. YOU seem to be talking about every Jew, am I correct?

Ricky---- Have you ever MET a Jew? We're not hard to find. Talk to your boss, your landlord, your parole officer ... try to get some first hand information on us

HughBe--- Why do you feel the need to rub in the FACT that JEWS are MASTERS over their SERVANTS meaning they are masters over every other race and countries including the President and Congress of the US, the AMERICAN people and even Singapore and its people where you live. In any event, such is the case because of their SUPERIOR intelligence and innate powers.

The rest of us know that parole officers are for us and that it does not apply to big US.
At this point, I feel a great need for a word of wisdom NOT from the Talmud but from the scriptures.

Yes, I have gotten it. "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18.

Oh Ricky, be comforted those words of Solomon are not for US it is only applicable to the PRIDE of others or little us. I know that you already know this to be true as no doubt your masters or god-men have taught you so along with your sacred writings the Talmud.

Ricky---Do I believe Judaism is better than other faiths? Yes, but only for me.

HughBe--- Accepted, it gives you exactly what you want to hear.
HughBe

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#66506
Jan 29, 2014
 
later

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66507
Jan 29, 2014
 

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Cult of Reason wrote:
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Disagree.
I would argue that if a person needs religion to act morally, then there is something fundamentally wrong with them.
.
No one was making that argument that people need religion to act morally. Thats like saying secular people NEED literature (or common sense, or good genetics, or proper parenting, or laws...etc etc) to act morally.

why cant religion/literature/common sense/genetic etc etc provide "reminders" for people to act morally? You are framing it as a necessary chain of absolute causation. Just because someone identifies as religions does not make them an automaton.

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#66508
Jan 29, 2014
 
Rick Moss wrote:
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Your right. But, if you're trying to convince anyone but yourself (you seem already convinced)... bring data.
I was replying to your statement: "It's safe to say that an equal to or greater number of people have been stopped or dissuaded from doing immoral things by the tenets of their faiths."

If you're going to ask me to bring data to back my position, you should consider doing the same.

Bottom Line: For every good deed a religious person does, I can counter with a negative deed, so that type of argument isn't going to get us anywhere. I'm more interested in the motivation behind a person's deeds. I'll address that in my next reply to your other post.

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#66509
Jan 29, 2014
 
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
I can see you have significantly greater exposure to Xtianity than to Judaism. In Xtianity, the threat of eternal damnation is held over the head of all believers. Hell awaits unrepentant sinners.
In Judaism, there is a moral imperative to make the world a better place -- tikkun olam (quite literally "heal the world"). This isn't a biblical injunction that comes with a threat of punishment but as a benefit to social harmony. The torah, indeed all Jewish scripture, is extremely vague on the subject of the afterlife, it's punishments or rewards.
If, in Judaism, the moral imperative to make the world a better place is not a biblical injunction, then we aren't talking about religion, but rather, a form of secular humanism that everyone should sign up to.

But, if I'm not mistaken, I thought Jewish belief involved the idea that the Jews have a special covenant with God, and with that covenant comes certain behavioral requirements. So there ARE biblical imperatives that guide/dictate certain deeds. Certainly, in the bible, when these deeds weren't met, there were negative repercussions via divine intervention.

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