Number of LDS churches vandalized increases to 7

Nov 11, 2008 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: KSL TV

Another church building belonging to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been vandalized.

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Josh

Provo, UT

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#1
Nov 11, 2008
 

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I am a Mormon, and I want to be heardÖ

In light of recent attacks (both verbal and some physical) against the Mormon church for its support of prop 8, Iíd like to share some of my thoughts as a member of the church. First of all, I should make it clear that I did not vote yes on prop 8 just because my church leaders encouraged it. In fact, it was very hard for me to decide how to vote, but I feel I made the MORE correct decision both in religious and secular context.

Let me say that the technicalities of legalizing gay marriage are not what I am afraid of. Iím all for giving gay couples the same rights and tax breaks as straight couples. What I am afraid of, however, are the implications of legalizing gay marriage and the effects on future generations. We already see gay teachers increasingly imposing their lifestyle on susceptible young children in a setting where lifestyle choices should not be discussed at all, traditional or alternate. Also letís face it, every child who decides that he wants to be gay (or that he was born that way) faces a life with a much higher risk of contracting HIV (and other STDs) no matter how safe he tries to be.

I hope you realize that neither I nor the Mormon church condemns gay people. I personally have many gay friends whom I sincerely call friends and I do not judge them. The last President of the church, President Hinckley, stated on Larry King that our church is not anti-gay, we are simply pro-family. He even admitted that there may very well be a genetic factor contributing to gay tendencies. Being a microbiology student myself (with an emphasis in genetics), Iíll be the first to admit that there may be evidence of genetic influence. That being said, I do not see it as a justification for teaching that living a gay lifestyle is normal and equally acceptable. Geneticists have also shown that there are genes which contribute to alcoholism, but that isnít justification for our society to embrace alcoholics as a normal and acceptable lifestyle. It would do us well to equally tolerate and love all of Godís children, but that doesnít mean we have to embrace their life choices.

The family is the most fundamental unit of society, and most/all of the moral, ethical, and social problems in our society are rooted in the degradation of traditional families. Children simply need a mother and father who fulfill their traditional roles in the family; who can come together in the act of love and create life which they will nurture through childhood. Believing this is not being close-minded, itís what works. I understand that critics make the claim that gay couples can be much better parents and they have much lower divorce rates than traditional couples these days. While they may be right about the latter, gay-couple families are not the answer. We must fix whatís broken, not abandon it. Hopefully youíve noticed that the ďyes on 8Ē campaign was wholly based on protecting traditional marriage and families, and in no way was against gay people as a part of American society.

Letís keep the tradition of marriage how itís always been, and letís keep gay civil unions the way they have been. The Mormon church is not trying to impose its beliefs on society, it simply encourages society to stand up for the functional family that has been the backbone of society since time began. Please understand, I did not vote yes on prop 8 out of bigotry or hate. I wish there were an easy way to convey that to everyone. I apologize to all who took the ďyes on 8Ē efforts personally. It would not have been the end of the world if prop 8 hadnít passed, but Iím glad that the majority of California voters understood on Nov. 4 that voting yes was in the best interest of our society.
Bob

UK

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#2
Nov 12, 2008
 

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Josh wrote:
The Mormon church is not trying to impose its beliefs on society, it simply encourages society to stand up for the functional family that has been the backbone of society since time began.
Unless you're implying gay families are disfunctional, your argument makes no sense. And if you are implying gay families are disfunctional, your argument makes no sense. So what you're saying makes no sense.
Guido

Santiago, Chile

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#3
Nov 12, 2008
 
Yeah, my position always has sense, others, nothing.... that makes lot of sense....

Since: Feb 08

ANOKA, MN

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#4
Nov 12, 2008
 
And there was nothing that said you couldn't have "traditional" families any more. You could have straight marriages just like you always have. But by barring gay marriages, you are imposing your will on all of society. To ban bar or deny something is an imposition of will; to allow others to do as they feel they must, as long as it does not interfere with the ways of others, is not an imposition of will.
Larry

Wellsville, KS

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#5
Nov 12, 2008
 
Seeing how these crimes are based on the hate against a religious group should this not be called a hate crime?

“Aurea mediocritas ”

Since: Feb 08

Grand Rapids, MI

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#6
Nov 12, 2008
 

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Larry wrote:
Seeing how these crimes are based on the hate against a religious group should this not be called a hate crime?
No won't fly. Hate crimes are for minorities. The LDS Church is a biggie, not a minority. Now the LDS Church members start to vandalize Gay homes, places of business, where they hang out, yep, hate crime.
KEVIN FROM IDAHO

Twin Falls, ID

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#7
Nov 12, 2008
 
HAVE YOU EVER ACTUALLY THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT A HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP REALLY IS? I'M GLAD THE
PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA VOTED YES!

Since: Feb 08

ANOKA, MN

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#8
Nov 13, 2008
 
KEVIN FROM IDAHO wrote:
HAVE YOU EVER ACTUALLY THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT A HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP REALLY IS? I'M GLAD THE
PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA VOTED YES!
I'm guessing you spend way too much time thinking about it.

“I know my redeemer lives.”

Since: Dec 07

Davis, California

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#9
Nov 13, 2008
 
Howie in Holland wrote:
<quoted text>
No won't fly. Hate crimes are for minorities. The LDS Church is a biggie, not a minority. Now the LDS Church members start to vandalize Gay homes, places of business, where they hang out, yep, hate crime.
Mormons aren't even as numerous as Jews and Jews are considered a minority. But we don't plan to stay a minority, an anti-Mormon scholar examining our growth projects that by the end of the 21st century we will have grown from 13 millions to 580 millions worldwide.
Larry

Wellsville, KS

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#10
Nov 13, 2008
 
Quiet_Dave wrote:
<quoted text>
Mormons aren't even as numerous as Jews and Jews are considered a minority. But we don't plan to stay a minority, an anti-Mormon scholar examining our growth projects that by the end of the 21st century we will have grown from 13 millions to 580 millions worldwide.
Jews are actualy about the same size as the LDS CHurch with an estemated number of 13-14 million world wide and over 5million in the U.S. The peopblem is it is concidered ok to hate us. I saw an interview last night with one of the gay leaders in California. He was asked why they do not go protest infront of black churchs seeing that Blacks are the reason Prop 8 passed. HIs answer was basiclay that blacks were to stupid to undersatnd what they were doing and that the gays do not have the guts to go protest them. He said they need the black community.
John

Springfield, IL

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#11
Nov 13, 2008
 
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless you're implying gay families are disfunctional, your argument makes no sense. And if you are implying gay families are disfunctional, your argument makes no sense. So what you're saying makes no sense.
You sir, make no sense!

As I've said before, there is a natural order to things, a reason why there is a mother and a father and why when they get together they concieve. It's not so they can hand the child off to two men or two women.
Mormon Guru

United States

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#12
Nov 13, 2008
 
Yes this is a Hate Crime because if the same crime were targeted against a synagogue the ACLU would consider it a hate crime. We can't pick and chose which group is on the PC list people.

“Just me...”

Since: Aug 08

Topeka, Kansas

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#13
Nov 13, 2008
 
This is vandalism, and that's all. Unless you can prove that they are all related or by the same cause, then you have no case.

Every day in this country, there are fires at churches. Sometimes they art started by people. That doesn't automatically make the churches victims of hate crimes. You have to connect the dots. If you can prove via an honest confession from one of the people that "we got together and planned to vandalize the buildings because you oppose gay marriage" then its nothing more than random acts of vandalism.

I am not mormon. But I am a Christian. my bible, although you say its basically a work of fiction because it wasn't interpreted correctly, says that people will hate me if I do what Jesus taught.

You should accept the vandalism as proof of doing something right.

But from the very beginning, Mormons have fought every time they were persecuted... starting with joseph smith's fight when he was going down by the mob.

joseph smith picked up a gun and started shooting when he was going to die.

My Savior picked up His cross and prayed for his assailants.

There is a difference.
Larry

Wellsville, KS

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#14
Nov 13, 2008
 
TopekaGuy wrote:
This is vandalism, and that's all. Unless you can prove that they are all related or by the same cause, then you have no case.
Every day in this country, there are fires at churches. Sometimes they art started by people. That doesn't automatically make the churches victims of hate crimes. You have to connect the dots. If you can prove via an honest confession from one of the people that "we got together and planned to vandalize the buildings because you oppose gay marriage" then its nothing more than random acts of vandalism.
I am not mormon. But I am a Christian. my bible, although you say its basically a work of fiction because it wasn't interpreted correctly, says that people will hate me if I do what Jesus taught.
You should accept the vandalism as proof of doing something right.
But from the very beginning, Mormons have fought every time they were persecuted... starting with joseph smith's fight when he was going down by the mob.
joseph smith picked up a gun and started shooting when he was going to die.
My Savior picked up His cross and prayed for his assailants.
There is a difference.
If other CHurchs in the area had also been vandalized you might have a case against hate crimes. However only LDS CHurchs were attacked. That gives you the motive. CLearly they were against the LDS CHurch for what ever reason. Tell me if a black person kills a white person simply because they are white is that a hate crime?

“Just me...”

Since: Aug 08

Topeka, Kansas

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#15
Nov 13, 2008
 
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
If other CHurchs in the area had also been vandalized you might have a case against hate crimes. However only LDS CHurchs were attacked. That gives you the motive. CLearly they were against the LDS CHurch for what ever reason. Tell me if a black person kills a white person simply because they are white is that a hate crime?
Is it a hate crime? Maybe.

If you can prove that it was for no other reason than being white, of course.

If you can prove that the vandalism was for no other reason than being a mormon "church", then sure it is. But thousands of churches are targets of vandalism and worse every year. That doesn't necessarily make it a hate crime.

Could it be possibly just a crime?

Sure could.
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Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5:12
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But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, Philippians 1:18
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Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. James 1:2-4

In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9
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.
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But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.
1 Peter 4:13
Larry

Wellsville, KS

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#16
Nov 13, 2008
 

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TopekaGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it a hate crime? Maybe.
If you can prove that it was for no other reason than being white, of course.
If you can prove that the vandalism was for no other reason than being a mormon "church", then sure it is. But thousands of churches are targets of vandalism and worse every year. That doesn't necessarily make it a hate crime.
Could it be possibly just a crime?
Sure could.
.
.
.
.
Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5:12
.
.
.
.
But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, Philippians 1:18
.
.
.
.
Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. James 1:2-4
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9
.
.
.
.
But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.
1 Peter 4:13
Again ONLY LDS CHURCHS were attacked. Had others churchs been attacked then I could see your side. However the FACTS are that in theis relativly small location ONLY LDS CHURCHS were involved. CAse closed.

“I know my redeemer lives.”

Since: Dec 07

Davis, California

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#17
Nov 13, 2008
 
I agree with the police that it is a bit early to accurately attribute these cases of vandelism to anti-Mormon groups, rather than the plain mischieviousness of some wayward child.
Larry

Wellsville, KS

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#18
Nov 13, 2008
 

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Quiet_Dave wrote:
I agree with the police that it is a bit early to accurately attribute these cases of vandelism to anti-Mormon groups, rather than the plain mischieviousness of some wayward child.
Here is how I look at it . My family lives in the SAlt LAke area. in their area you have 15 CHurchs only 4 of wich are LDS. 3 of these LDS CHurchs you have to go out of your way to get to. If all 4 LDS Churchs are vandalized and not a single one of the other Churchs are vandalized it is clear that the actions are based on hate of the LDS Church.

“Just me...”

Since: Aug 08

Topeka, Kansas

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#19
Nov 13, 2008
 
Larry wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is how I look at it . My family lives in the SAlt LAke area. in their area you have 15 CHurchs only 4 of wich are LDS. 3 of these LDS CHurchs you have to go out of your way to get to. If all 4 LDS Churchs are vandalized and not a single one of the other Churchs are vandalized it is clear that the actions are based on hate of the LDS Church.
Its actually a fairly easy solution. If LDS "churches" don't like being the target of what you call as "hate crimes" then either:

1. go along with the world

or

2. tear your "churches" down

either way it would solve the problem.

Me? I count it good when the world hates me. They hated my Messiah, why wouldn't they hate me?

If the world liked me, I'd obviously be doing something wrong.
Larry

Wellsville, KS

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#20
Nov 13, 2008
 
TopekaGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Its actually a fairly easy solution. If LDS "churches" don't like being the target of what you call as "hate crimes" then either:
1. go along with the world
or
2. tear your "churches" down
either way it would solve the problem.
Me? I count it good when the world hates me. They hated my Messiah, why wouldn't they hate me?
If the world liked me, I'd obviously be doing something wrong.
The fact that people hate the LDS CHurch is not what am agianst here. What I am against is that we have laws aganst hate crimes however if the hate crime is against a group that society thinks it is ok to hate then it is not a hate crime. WHat I want is uniformity in the law.

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