Decision On House Bill 3393 On Tulsa Union School Board's Agenda

The Tulsa Union School board will consider whether to ignore a state law at their meeting on Monday evening concerning scholarships for special needs students. Full Story
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Gerald Buckley

Tulsa, OK

#82 Oct 12, 2010
School Laws of Oklahoma wrote:
Section 924. Use of Public Money or Property for Religious Purposes Prohibited.
No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion, or for the use, benefit, or support of any priest, preacher, minister, or other religious teacher or dignitary, or sectarian institution as such.(Art. 2,ß 5, Okla. Const.)
State Board of Vocational and Technical Education cannot contract with private sectarian educational institution for such institution to offer a vocational training program. January 28, 1981 (AG Op. No. 80-196)
Special personnel and instructors and books and equipment paid for or purchased with public funds cannot be furnished students in private or parochial schools unless such students are enrolled in the public schools. AG Op. September 16, 1965
Transportation in a school district program approved under Title 1 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 cannot be used by pupils enrolled in private or parochial schools. AG Op. September 16, 1965
School personnel cannot be paid with public funds and furnished to parochial schools. AG Op. September 16, 1965
Use of public school buses for transporting parochial school pupils was forbidden under Constitution which prohibits use of pubic money or property for sectarian purposes. Transportation could not be justified on theory of public welfare. Board of Education for ISD No. 52 v. Antone, 384 P.2d 911 (Okla. 1963)
Yet, what is a Pell Grant? Public funds that go to Private Institutions (University of Tulsa). What is Medicaid? Public funds that go to St. Francis (a religious institution). What did city of Enid do by buying Phillips University's land? Public funds to a private (religious) institution and now leases it BACK to them. On and on.

This law IS constitutional and under precedent of settled law shall be construed as constitutional until such time as it is proved egregiously to the contrary.

Furthermore, the districts have ALWAYS had Injunctive Relief and Summary Judgement available to them to block this law. They've chosen NOT to do so. WHY?! Because it would take money OUT of their General Funds. Once they're sued they can combine their Legal Funds (which do NOT adversely affect their fiscal budgets) and go to war fully funded. In essence their being cheap bastards all the way around.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#83 Oct 13, 2010
ba DAVE wrote:
so I guess its okay if we all just start picking and choosing the laws we are going to follow and not follow. That is the message I get with this decision. If it is law, then its the law. Our society cannot just start choosing what we will do and what we wont do.
The public schools in this state can't even get the kids without special needs to pass, why not let someone better trained, with smaller class sizes take a crack at it.
We have had the pick and choose laws for awhile, from "It depends what your definition of is,,,,,,,,is, to running red lights and illegal immigration. This is just another case of if the digression of american society.
Gerald Buckley

Tulsa, OK

#84 Oct 13, 2010
Le Jimbo - I get the selective ENFORCEMENT of laws. I don't get the selective compliance with the law. Whether the party is called out or not... they're breaking the law.

I shouldn't have to SUE the districts (which is what Doug Mann of RFR wants us to do) to get them to comply with the law any more than you should have to sue me to comply.

Also, does anyone find it odd that Matthew J BALLARD is an associate at RFR Law? Keith Ballard's son is somehow in proximity to this matter and could BENEFIT if it went to court!? Hold the presses!
Just Sayin

Tulsa, OK

#85 Oct 13, 2010
So, if this voucher system(and these ARE vouchers, just diguised and cleverly using the "special ed" students to get the foot in the door) were to expand to any and all students that would like a private(and faith based - let's just get that out there)education, tell me guys: what happens when the Muslim faith-based school wants your tax dollars, hmmmmm? Discrimmination can't happen, so your tax dollars could someday, very soon, send some of our Oklahoma students to private school to learn the Muslim faith mixed in with their academics. What will you think about that? Everyone is not a Christian that will be using these tax dollars for private ed.
Just Sayin

Tulsa, OK

#86 Oct 13, 2010
JJ in tulsa wrote:
I am so ashamed of Jenks (my district) and these others. The teachers unions are behind this crap, just like bill 744 which anyone with a single brain cell will vote against. Special needs kids are special and they deserve a chance that they will not get in the public school system. I, for one, will withhold every dollar I can from these school districts from this point on. I also will do whatever I can to get these schools to get a clue. Fox news just picked this story up today and once again, Oklahoma will be the laughing stock of the nation. There is no wonder that our kids can't read - our schools just don't have a clue.
Oklahoma has always been the laughing stock and what are you ashamed of? Are you really believing the state legislature is doing this for the "good" of the special needs child(I have one too, educated and graduated very well through Jenks public Schools)? You are sorely naive if you do. They have done nothing more than USE the special needs child as a way to get the door opened for full blown vouchers to any student, any time, because who's gonna be against that, right? Be careful what you wish for. Our tax dollars could be going to any and all private schools, religious-based and anything in between. Religious-based doesn't necessarily mean "Christian".
Just Sayin

Tulsa, OK

#87 Oct 13, 2010
FEDup wrote:
Dr. Cathy Burden, Superintendent at Union Public Schools, said it is unconstitutional to shift public funds to private institutions.
"They don't have the right to take state dollars that are for the good of all students with them into a private school," she said.
----------
Yes "THEY" do have the right. "THEY" are the parents of these children and "THEY" are taxpayers. Where does Ms Burden think the money comes from to fund public schools? If parents believe their special needs child can be better served by a private school, that is their choice. Why are parents of special needs children having to pay twice to have their child educated? They pay taxes AND then pay tuition at a private school - it doesn't make sense. The tax dollars to educate a child should follow the child no matter what school the parents choose to send him to. The school district is not entitled to that money if they are not providing the services.
I see it as greed and selfishness on the part of these school districts to deny the most vulnerable, needy children a better education. Perhaps if the public schools did a better job, parents wouldn't feel the need to enroll their kids in private institutions.
And you are one of the very sheeple that the legislature counts on to think exactly the way you describe in your last paragraph. Kudos!
Tulsa

Tulsa, OK

#88 Oct 13, 2010
The school receives money for each special needs child that is enrolled in their school. It is actually a larger amount than they receive for a regular student. Therefore, if that child was to transfer to another school, it ISNíT that the school will have to pay for them to attend elsewhere;itís the state that will be paying.. Basically, what I am saying is that it is Jenksí(or whatever school) money only because of that child anyway. The money should follow the child. Many years ago, Jenks created their so called early intervention/ special needs program for the very reason because it would draw in mucho bucks to their school system. They had a big enrollment thus alot of money. Problem has been that their program is not at all anything to give praise about. They do not spend the amount of money on the kids, teachers. equipment that they have been given to educate the kidsÖ That is why parents are wanting their children to be able to attend other schools (programs) in order to meet the kidsí needs.. I donít understand why the school has a say whether the kids can transfer anyway. Perhaps, the money should come directly from the state to whatever school the child enrolls in and then the parents will have the right to seek the best education for their child.. I imagine that if that were to occur the competition between the schools to provide excellent programs would increase dramatically, which is what any school should be doing. Those schools do not care about the kids, itís the control of the money.. That is so sad !! SHAME ON YOU ADMINISTRATORS.. WHAT IF IT WERE YOUR CHILD ????
An IEP parent

Wichita, KS

#89 Oct 13, 2010
Tulsa - Well Said - Two thumbs up - This whole thing is insane.
Bixfarmboy

Bixby, OK

#90 Oct 13, 2010
If the public school have the facilities and transportation for special needs children then they should not contribute to a private school. Private schools should be private funded, not by all our tax dollars.
sunluvin

Tulsa, OK

#91 Oct 14, 2010
Most of the Public School Teachers teaching our Special Ed class truely don't know how to work with each students disabilities which in turn makes the student suffer and lack behind even more. If Private teachers has more education in the different dissabilties and know how to work with that student, and the Public Schools do not want to pay a teacher for Her (or him) educating themselves on the different dissabilities and the students actions with the dissabilities, we should as parents and gaurdians be able to send our student to where they will get the best education, and since Public schools can't do it most of the time, We shouldnt have to pay more for something Public Schools are suppose to provide and Do Not! Mabey if they have to dish out more, They will look closer to the Education of the Special Ed teachers and what they truely know. Some times taking time and teaching a student at a slower pace isn't all a Special Ed teacher needs to know how to do. they need to know about each dissability and the effects it has on the student, all are different. Thank you

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#92 Oct 14, 2010
Bixfarmboy wrote:
If the public school have the facilities and transportation for special needs children then they should not contribute to a private school. Private schools should be private funded, not by all our tax dollars.
Interesting, our tax dollars can go to educate your child in public school, but our tax dollars cannot go to special needs children. Tell me what ALTERNATIVE SCHOOL IS. IT IS FOR STUDENTS THAT ARE ON THE EDGE, PREGNANT, DELINQUINTS AND DON'T FIT IN THE BOX........WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?

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