24 Hour Fitness implements new finger...

24 Hour Fitness implements new fingerprint program

There are 53 comments on the Santa Cruz Sentinel story from Aug 13, 2010, titled 24 Hour Fitness implements new fingerprint program. In it, Santa Cruz Sentinel reports that:

A new cardless check-in program that launched in Northern California this month allows members to gain entry to the 78 24 Hour Fitness facilities from Santa Cruz to San Francisco using their fingerprints rather than traditional, gym-issued cards.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Santa Cruz Sentinel.

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TooChi

Santa Cruz, CA

#54 Aug 14, 2010
fingerprint system is a "green-focused initiative" that will reduce the amount of paper the company generates when signing up new members.

lolz! yeah sure!

And it would also cut the waste on paper used for time cards when they cut labor and fire employees~
21st century man

Felton, CA

#55 Aug 14, 2010
Invasion of Privacy wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's say for example you are convicted of a crime and your alibi is 24 fitness. But the computer data corrupts and there is no one at the desk to verify that you were there.
Or another example is a hacker gets into the 24 hour fitness data. Which because they aren't high security is easy to. Then they use it to get personal data and identify theft. Fingerprints just like DNA are absolute evidence that is hard to refute, so you don't want it out there floating in unsecured data bases.
Third example is some one could use it to find out your law enforcement identity. Information they shouldn't have access to.
Fourth example your fingerprint can be used to secure false DMV documents such as driver licenses.
Far too many ways it can be misused to risk it.
http://www.howtodothings.com/business/how-to-...
"Uses of fingerprints in our daily lives
In crime investigation. Fingerprints are the cheapest and best means to prove the identity of a criminal. Most of the crime cases, like murder and theft cases, do not have an eye witness or other evidence. Even the testimony of an eye witness can be strongly challenged in a court of law. But one can never deny his presence at a crime scene if his fingerprints are collected there. A fingerprint itself is conclusive evidence.
To prevent impersonation. Fingerprints can be included with social security cards, passports, driving licenses, bank accounts etc. to prevent unauthorised use.
To prove the identity of an unidentified dead body. Fingerprint comparison is one way to prove the identity of a dead body when it is mutilated or decomposed, thus making difficult to identify the person. It becomes useful when a natural calamity occurs or a war breaks out. The mutilated bodies of the victims may be identified with the use of earlier recorded fingerprints.
Faces can lie, fingerprints never do
Most of the people in our society do not realise the importance of fingerprint science in modern life. Former Chief Superintendent of the Fingerprint Bureau in New Scotland Yard, Mr. Fred Cheril, has stated in his autobiography 'Fingerprints never lie', fingerprints invariably tell the truth. But they can do so only in their own language and one cannot hope to understand how they reveal the truth, without having some acquaintance with this unique science. Thousands of fingerprint identifications are made throughout the world on a daily basis."
What a bunch of nonsense. Did you read the article dufus? It's not the actual fingerprint that is stored, it is a numerical creation. You are ignorant and afraid of what you don't know anything about. Also, since 24 Hour Fitness is not online, how does "someone hack into" its computers? Why would they care? You can get that level of personal information out of a telephone book.
24hour bath house

United States

#56 Aug 14, 2010
I hate 24hour fitness. I called about membership pricing once and they just treat you like an idiot and give you a "hard sell" routine. They refused to discuss pricing over the phone and tried to badger me into commiting to an appointment with a salesman, no doubt so they could try to bully me into buying a membership.
Jason

United States

#59 Aug 18, 2010
strawk wrote:
Croghan is being disingenuous when he says that they are not storing fingerprints. How does a comparison take place to match fingerprints if there is no stored data? Let's hope 24 fitness is a little more honest about privacy protection and doesn't share it's database freely with law enforcement without telling any customers. Of course law enforcement could always subpoena the database to search for a particular match.
The addition of a code to get two-factor authorization is good except that in this case customers could co-operate to get multiple people on one payed account by using gummy fingers with the fingerprints of one person copied for use by others. I wonder if the fingerprint ID equipment vendor told 24-hour fitness how easy that is to do.
You should go in and ask rather to assume you know about the technology.. It takes measurements not photos of your finger coming then comes up with a mathematical code it's not a "does this picture look like this picture type of equipment" so read up a little more before you make a fool of yourself but those are just my thoughts.... But as a member I have noticed that it is more likely that someone is paying for a membership will respect the equipment more than a non-member and for that I thank 24
An old game

San Bruno, CA

#60 Aug 19, 2010
24hour bath house wrote:
I hate 24hour fitness. I called about membership pricing once and they just treat you like an idiot and give you a "hard sell" routine. They refused to discuss pricing over the phone and tried to badger me into commiting to an appointment with a salesman, no doubt so they could try to bully me into buying a membership.
Ah...the old non-listed price game! Club One in SV does that sort of deceitful thrust and parry. Clubs do not only to make you meet with an employee who will give you the hard-sell, but so they can offer different deals to different people. It is patently dishonest, and very common.

Club one lied to me from the get-go, and then continued to charge me for membership after I'd quit. Because of them, i will never join another gym.
CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT

Buena Park, CA

#61 Aug 23, 2010
CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT!!!!!!!!!!

THE AVALANCHE IS COMING.
Shantal

Santa Cruz, CA

#62 Oct 4, 2010
WestsideResident wrote:
Its actually a pretty convenient system, I have had no trouble since enrolling last week... If you don't feel like talking to anyone and just going into your work out, enter the code, finger down, done...
People are so paranoid and conspiracy-oriented these days... Uh oh 24 hr is watching me!!!! Really? Why would they care to waste the time or resources to track all their members every move...
Because 24 hour fitness is a private company looking to make money. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to realize this is a major invasion of our privacy. It's like arguing that facebook doesn't store any of your information, they could care less about you right? They aren't 'watching' you, you have to be so' Paranoid'(what a dirty word!) to think that. After all it is just a network created so people can network and stay in contact with friends, that's why the pictures, messages, comments, and searches done on facebook are all property of facebook, even after you terminate your membership. Yes the majority of people, a majority of convenience hungry human race will mindlessly scan away @ 24 hour, not caring, or not wanting to be the one to make a fuss, and if you do you are regarded as the paranoid one. The only problem is that this is just the beginning of this type of activity, unfortunately if we are already scanning our fingers to get into a gym in 2010, are we going to have to scan our fingers to get into a classroom or or eyes to get into a bank in fiver years, how about the next fiver years? If this doesn't concern you then sign away your privacy right now because you deserve to have it take from you if your not gong to fight for it
Mark

Reno, NV

#63 Oct 10, 2010
They initially said this was optional. You could also opt to have them hand enter your ID from your card, which they did until yesterday. They told me yesterday it was not optional. My only other option was to make a request in writting for an optional number and another form of ID would be required to prove my identity (she made it sound like my drivers license was insufficient, even though it is good enough to get through airport security).

Where is our assurance (in writing) from 24 hour fitness that this information will be secure and if the company or one its employees uses that information for an unautherizes purpose, we get to sue them.

When you show this degree of distrust of your custormers, the customers also will show the same in return.
Mark

Reno, NV

#64 Oct 10, 2010
Also, they are trying to sell us on the idea that this is easier for us. It is not. Come on!! It is not a good thing to make it clear to your customers that that you think they are stupid!

This is clearly being done to correct their problem with their staff not properly checking people in.
andalou

Lake Forest, CA

#65 Oct 11, 2010
WOW, I live in Orange County and tonight I was presented with the 24 hour crew demanding my fingerprint. I was confused because I didn't receive something in the mail letting me know such a thing would happen and blown away at how rude the 24 hour Fitness staff were when I asked questions. I am not a criminal and don't enjoy being treated like one. When I write checks or check into a hotel, I am not asked for fingerprints. In fact when I bought a car I wasn't asked for a fingerprint. I don't feel comfortable that 24 Hour Fitness has the property security in place to protect my information. I know for a fact that with just the ridge dimensions I could create a 3D representation of a fingerprint with my new 3D printer. This is nutty. Instead of treating people like criminals, maybe they should focus on keeping the air conditioning on, keeping the lights on and cleaning the equipment. Is that too hard 24 hour Fitness? 3 things....
mea

Berkeley, CA

#66 Nov 4, 2010
just don't lick your finger after giving them a print.
You know how many other people have had their finger on that same pad, and in their nose, and etcetera?
No, they don't wash it after each use.

Since: May 10

Santa Cruz, CA

#67 Nov 5, 2010
Jason wrote:
<quoted text>
You should go in and ask rather to assume you know about the technology.. It takes measurements not photos of your finger coming then comes up with a mathematical code it's not a "does this picture look like this picture type of equipment" so read up a little more before you make a fool of yourself but those are just my thoughts.... But as a member I have noticed that it is more likely that someone is paying for a membership will respect the equipment more than a non-member and for that I thank 24
I don't know if you'll ever read this as it is now more than two months later but here goes.
My comment needs clarification which I did do a few posts later on that same day. You would be right to ask for clarification but don't assume I don't know what I am talking about. There is a lot to explain and I tried to keep things brief and somewhat non-technical. 24-hour fitness is using the MorphoSmart 300 from Morphotrak. This fingerprint scanning device is connected to a PC, where software from Morphotrak does an analysis of the fingerprint image (note the image is sent to the computer, we are forced to trust Morphotrak and 24-hour fitness that they will discard the image). The image is processed to create a biometric template which is stored in a database during registration. During verification, the current template is matched against the stored one. The template in this case is a Morphotrak (actually Sagem Defense Securite) proprietary one that is a set of vectors representing ridge to ridge segments from the fingerprint. The maximum size of the template is 256 bytes. This is hardly a single number. The single number I think they are talking about is the 10 digit number you submit during registration and at the time of each entry to the fitness club. This is used to index to your particular template in the database. It is much faster to simply verify that the template stored there matches the current one than to search the database for a match. This also solves the problem of overlap where a single template is valid for more than one person. The existence of the template in a database is still a potential privacy problem. Although one cannot apply some algorithm to create a fingerprint image from a template. Someone who has your fingerprint already can verify that it is also in the database by running the same algorithm from Morphotrak. We have to, again, trust that 24-hour fitness does not share the database freely with the government (police, FBI, CIA, NSA etc). Of course the government can always use a subpoena or a national security letter to then verify that a particular person is in their database. I hope this clarifies things for you.
Norah

Duarte, CA

#68 Feb 1, 2011
A year ago I bought a 2-yr membership at 24hr, before they had this fingerprint thing implemented. With a year to go, and very much looking to joining a *different* gym, they ask me if I would like to sign up for their NEW CARDLESS CHECKIN every single time I visit. VERY ANNOYING. I feel like the staff gets more aggressive each time I go back, although I say no thank you. Instead of spending time asking me for my two forms of ID maybe they could spend more time fixing some of the worn out equipment. GET A CLUE 24 HR!!!!!!!!!!

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