Episcopal bishop aims to strengthen d...

Episcopal bishop aims to strengthen diocese of San Joaquin

There are 33 comments on the www.modbee.com story from Mar 21, 2011, titled Episcopal bishop aims to strengthen diocese of San Joaquin. In it, www.modbee.com reports that:

The Rev. Chester Talton, who was born in Arkansas and moved to California as a toddler during the war years, is the new provisional bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin. He hopes to focus on spreading the good news of Jesus and doing outreach projects while continuing the legal efforts to regain property lost when Anglican Bishop John-David Schofield led the diocese away from the Episcopal Church over theological issues ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.modbee.com.

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Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#23 Mar 24, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
From your last link:
"Ross 'Buddy' Lindsay III receives phone calls every day ..."

This is TEC; try reading your links before posting them!
Such an ignorant Bum you wish everyone to see yourself to be!

Try these excerpts from the very same article you have insisted is all about TEC and which may be found by reading the article as linked:

This, from Paragraph 3 of the same article:
"All Saints is emblematic of passionate struggles that pit scores of breakaway congregations and entire dioceses against mainline denominations, primarily TEC and the Presbyterian Church (USA)."

And again, two Paragraphs later:
"Some conservative congregations in the PC(USA) contend that when their denomination has made no financial investment in a local church, it should not stand to gain when a church attempts to leave. "The denomination didn't put a dime into these local church properties," says Parker Williamson, editor emeritus of The Presbyterian Layman, a conservative North Carolina-based journal."

On page two:
' "It's not just about property," says L. Martin Nussbaum, a Colorado Springs attorney who defends religious organizations. "It's also about who are the lawful ecclesiastical officers. Typically a majority faction leaves and tries to claim the property on the way out." '

From page three of the same source:
"Mark Tammen, associated stated clerk with the PC(USA) in Louisville, Kentucky, contends that a slim majority of the attempted departures from the denomination are rooted in the debate over ordaining partnered gays. "Lots of times people are mad at the presbytery because they wouldn't let them have the pastor they wanted," Tammen says.

Yet Williamson of The Presbyterian Layman says departures almost universally pivot on scriptural authority. "There's a belief that the denomination has departed from its scriptural foundation of ethical issues relating to human sexuality."

Tammen says Presbyterians have a regional authority structure in which geographical presbyteries rather than the national headquarters can dismiss congregations. "The national church gives advice and assistance to the presbyteries, but we can't control the outcome," he says.

But Williamson believes national leaders are calling the shots. During the legal discovery process for a case involving Carrollton Presbyterian Church in New Orleans, Williamson said the documents showed that the Presbytery of South Louisiana had received 398 e-mails and other communiqu├ęs from Tammen.

The Layman published online what its editors dub the "Louisville papers," leaked legal memorandums they say Tammen wrote to presbytery leaders on how to deal with local congregations wanting to leave. Among Tammen's advice: Ascertain whether the ruling judge belongs to a hierarchal church rather than a congregational one. "It's very clear that lawyers for the denomination are deeply involved in these local church cases," Williamson says.

He thinks more courts will find application of the PC(USA) trust clause invalid. "The deeds say nothing about denominational ownership. Congregations never consented to place the property they built and paid for in the control of the denomination."

Also, page three:
'For more than two centuries, United Methodist congregations have held the property in trust to the national denomination. "I don't foresee litigation among Lutherans or Methodists because the legal documents are clear [about] where ownership lies," Tuttle says.
But Lindsay, who has counseled dissenting United Methodist congregations, disagrees. "The language in the Methodist Book of Discipline is almost word for word the same as the Presbyterian and Episcopal provisions. Methodists are just as vulnerable." '

Now, get your head out of your stinking little rear end and read the material, instead of simply looking for confirmation of your own erroneous point of view.

RK

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#24 Mar 24, 2011
RevKen thanks for the corrections and clarifications.

"You will know the truth and it shall set you free."

There are three things we can say for certain regarding Joe as an editor of this forum.

1. He is actually a member of the Church of Rome and a former Episcopalian.

2. He will publish any nonsense available from any source no matter how scurrilous to discredit TEC.

3. He will ignore any facts that stand in the way of his personal jihad against TEC.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#25 Mar 24, 2011
RevKen wrote:
Try these excerpts from the very same article you have insisted is all about TEC and which may be found by reading the article as linked ...
And how much of this posturing has actually ended up in court?

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#26 Mar 24, 2011
T McCabe wrote:
There are three things we can say for certain regarding Joe as an editor of this forum ...
One out of three: good batting for baseball, but not much else.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#27 Mar 24, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
And how much of this posturing has actually ended up in court?
On the part of disputing factions among the Presbyterians, Lutherans and Methodists?

Answer your own question truthfully, Jerk De Carenot. Find out for yourself if you really want to know. Obviously, your assertion that there are no disputes being litigated in these Churches is pure folly.

Besides, what we choose to do with the people who have attempted to take property from our Church is our own business. Let the disputes find their ultimate resolution in the Courts, since that is the only recourse offered by those who thought they could get away with taking property and assets while disowning themselves from their Church. Those Court decisions are coming soon enough.

The Rev. Chester Talton has answered the question honestly and openly. So let it be done.

RK

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#28 Mar 24, 2011
RevKen wrote:
Answer your own question truthfully, Jerk De Carenot. Find out for yourself if you really want to know ...
... in other words, you don't know because there's no info on this in your links.
Boardengineer12

Carmel, NY

#29 Mar 25, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
from modbee:
Q: The philosophy of the Episcopal Church so far has been: "We are not interested in negotiating over property. We want the entire property returned, and if we then have to sell it, we're not selling it back to the congregations who left the Episcopal Church." Do you agree with that philosophy?
A: That's the position of the church at the present time. Yes, I agree with that. I see it as the only recourse that we really have ...
Yet other denominations easilly found other recourses.
Joe, I see your point, but I'd like to opinonate that each denomination is different in some way when it comes to philosophy.

The Episcopal Church for whatever reason has decided that the policy currently in effect is what they want to do. While it may be unpopular in some circles I'm sure its certainly legal and likewise I'm sure--as I'm sure you will agree--that most rational people will agree that TEC should be able to carry out their policy, no matter how uncharitable it may seem to others. After all, I'm sure if TEC started meddling in the affairs of another religious group, they would be frowned upon by most in the religious community. So in this case perhaps it might be best to let TEC do what they feel they must without unnecessary comment from the sidelines if you will.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#30 Mar 25, 2011
Boardengineer12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Joe, I see your point, but I'd like to opinonate that each denomination is different in some way when it comes to philosophy ...
Christianity is their common "philosophy," but what did Paul say about Christians suing one another in court?
Boardengineer12 wrote:
... So in this case perhaps it might be best to let TEC do what they feel they must without unnecessary comment from the sidelines if you will.
Did you forget that this is the Topix TEC forum?

Otherwise, what other forum provides for our "unnecessary comment"?

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#31 Mar 25, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Christianity is their common "philosophy," but what did Paul say about Christians suing one another in court?
<quoted text>
Did you forget that this is the Topix TEC forum?
Otherwise, what other forum provides for our "unnecessary comment"?
Did you forget your habit of quitting' denominations?

LOL.........

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#32 Mar 25, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
... in other words, you don't know because there's no info on this in your links.
The links I provided contain numerous references to the litigation to which you refer. They also contain the names of litigants, attorneys and Canon Law experts and quotes from these individuals on the subject.

What on Earth is wrong with you that you cannot read and understand their words?

My knowledge is not limited to information contained in links posted in my replies on this thread.

You are the one who made the ridiculous and misinformed assertion. You are the one who has not posted any supporting links or information to confirm your claims.

You are the Goofball and the one who has everyone laughing at you.

Try proving to everyone who reads these posts that you are not the Goofball that you present yourself to be.

I, for one, would welcome anything you can do to create a different impression of yourself for all of us. Supposedly, an Editor on these Topix threads and Forums has at least some measure of obligation and responsibility to contribute intelligently for the purpose of engendering a worthwhile discussion.

You can do a lot better than just throwing out irresponsible and baseless claims, such as you have done in this thread. The Topix people should be apprised of your feckless behavior.

As it is, you deserve a whole lot more criticism and ridicule for your behavior than you have gotten so far. On the other hand, that is an opportunity for the rest of us to enjoy ourselves at your expense.

Now, if you want more information about Church litigation over property and assets, for whatever denomination you choose, you can look it up yourself. There is plenty of it for everyone to read.

RK

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#33 Mar 27, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Otherwise, what other forum provides for our "unnecessary comment"?
Maybe you should start a Sour Grapes Forum, for those who are unhappy with their lives..........

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#34 Mar 27, 2011
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
The links I provided contain numerous references to the litigation ...
.. among the Presbyterian churchs?

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#35 Mar 28, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
.. among the Presbyterian churchs?
Y A W N..........

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