Marin Clean Energy boosts use of carb...

Marin Clean Energy boosts use of carbon-free electricity

There are 39 comments on the Marin Independent Journal story from Apr 21, 2010, titled Marin Clean Energy boosts use of carbon-free electricity. In it, Marin Independent Journal reports that:

The Marin Clean Energy initiative has dealt a blow to the argument that its customers would be producing more greenhouse gas than if they remained with Pacific Gas and Electric Co.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Marin Independent Journal.

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Bob simply Bob

Novato, CA

#21 Apr 22, 2010
They want it both ways. PG&E doesn't get to claim its use of hydro as 'green' but the Marin group does.

Wait and see - Shell will use credits rather than fuel sources.

“Watching Community Issues”

Since: Aug 09

San Rafael, CA

#22 Apr 22, 2010
Let's see..... we were 'stimulated and saved' from the great depression, GM will now be making 'great' union cars, we all now have 'free or low-cost' health care, and NOW HERE IN Marin County -'Clean Green Renewable Energy' coming to our homes and business -UNLESS YOU OPT OUT- over the infrastructure that the evil PG&E has spent years building and maintaining.
Question for my Progressive neighbors; Is any thing being done about jobs-? What about jobs first for BHO's people, the poor suffering 'Americans' in the ghettos of Oakland, Detroit, Newark & South Central LA. It appears 'cap & trade' plus 'immigration reform' are the next priorities.
Marin RatePayer

San Jose, CA

#23 Apr 22, 2010
well, it looks like the "power guy" has not read the Shell/MCE Contract ...

since power guy didn't do his homework before coming to school today, we'll help him out a little ...

go to page 5, "Master Purchase Agreement", Shell & MEA, signed March 18, 2010, Parg.# 5, PRICING, EXHIBIT 1A.

Let me help you some more..
line 1-5, shows mandated price increase of (finger on the buzzer)--

$ 57./MWh for 2010, going to $70./MWh, 2014,

PLUS:$39./MWh Renewable Premium.

? GOT IT power boy ???

Oh, and BTW, PGE has REDUCED their Generation Charges in the current Rate filling. REDUCED.

? GOT IT yet power boy ???


The Marin Civil Grand Jury concluded:“Citizens of Marin are being led down a costly and extremely risky path not yet traveled by any other community in California.”


OPT OUT NOW http://tinyurl.com/ydd26vn

grassroots gardener

Mill Valley, CA

#24 Apr 22, 2010
Electricity is a lot like sausage. We don't know what it's made out of -- we just want to eat it for breakfast and not ask too many questions (sorry, vegetarians). But if I go to my grocery store, I can buy sustainably raised meat, right? Or if I don't like that, I can make my own and know what's in it...I guess that would be analogy for you solar panel owners.
Why is everyone so unsure of the ability of having sustainable energy sources in the mix? Yes, all electrons are put equally over the wires...but the point of MCE and green energy in general is to reduce the number of new gas, coal and nuclear power plants that will be needed in CA in the future. California is the 8th largest economy in the WORLD. If we can cut Carbon Emissions by changing where our power is sourced, then we make a huge impact on the planet and Green House Effect. Marin is capable of operating the energy contracts for our tiny population... I lived in L.A. which has a public-owned utility provider for Water and Power. No black outs, no price gouging, great service. And a heck of a lot more people and industry were served.
Common Progressive

San Rafael, CA

#25 Apr 22, 2010
A slick accounting trick to make MEA appear green while all the time, all they are doing is making themselves a middleman to your energy bill. The MEA does not generate any energy of ANY kind Whatsoever!

Their seizing of PGE customers by government fiat is worthy of a tinpot dictator. OPT-OUT NOW!
MonkeyBrain

United States

#26 Apr 22, 2010
mikes wrote:
WHAT a joke mce is
they do not own the lines or the transformers or poles meters
Can you believe Budweiser sells beer, and they do not own the stores, or the roads the beer comes in on......
about the child

Ross, CA

#27 Apr 22, 2010
Common Progressive wrote:
A slick accounting trick to make MEA appear green while all the time, all they are doing is making themselves a middleman to your energy bill. The MEA does not generate any energy of ANY kind Whatsoever!
Their seizing of PGE customers by government fiat is worthy of a tinpot dictator. OPT-OUT NOW!
Wow - So you prefer to stay with the giant corporate entity that has pledged 35 mill to fight ANY KIND of LOCAL action on
energy use and remain in MONOPOLY control INSTEAD OF having Representation by local officials accessible at either monthly town hall meetings or monthly energy authority meetings VS closed door dealings , new supreme court decision making corporate campaign contributions UNCAPPED, the PGE $ 35 million pledged on PROP 16 AND just reprimanded by CPUC for illegal marketing. Hard choices especially since I have such an admiration for corporate social and environmental ethics. But you know - I think I'll stay with the little guys - that I can actually SEE in my very own town AND can actually vote for.

Tinpot dictator?- dude - what history do you study and what history do you want for us? Thankfully the 'tinpot dictator' law says YOU CAN opt out and I DON'T have to stay with %^%& monopoly and can choose to support my local economy
not a $^$$ monopoly !!! Guess you would like us to have NO CHOICE - Hmmm what does that remind me of - oh right - tin pot dictators ...

Since: Apr 09

Marin County, CA

#28 Apr 22, 2010
grassroots gardener wrote:
...
Why is everyone so unsure of the ability of having sustainable energy sources in the mix?...
I don't think there's an objection to having competitive supply "in the mix."

I think there's a big objection to the provision whereby customers are "assigned" to the new player without any action on their part, and I think there's a big objection to the fact that tax funds are being used to start up this enterprise.

As was pointed out above, we had a "voluntary" supply choice program in place before Enron, and it was scrapped because scrapping it was the only way that the state could pretend to recoup the $30+ billion Gray Davis spent bailing out PG&E.

As I've said before in these discussions, I really dislike PG&E and the stunts they've pulled--but the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
Use it or lose it

United States

#29 Apr 22, 2010
grassroots gardener wrote:
Electricity is a lot like sausage. We don't know what it's made out of -- we just want to eat it for breakfast and not ask too many questions (sorry, vegetarians). But if I go to my grocery store, I can buy sustainably raised meat, right? Or if I don't like that, I can make my own and know what's in it...I guess that would be analogy for you solar panel owners.
Why is everyone so unsure of the ability of having sustainable energy sources in the mix? Yes, all electrons are put equally over the wires...but the point of MCE and green energy in general is to reduce the number of new gas, coal and nuclear power plants that will be needed in CA in the future. California is the 8th largest economy in the WORLD. If we can cut Carbon Emissions by changing where our power is sourced, then we make a huge impact on the planet and Green House Effect. Marin is capable of operating the energy contracts for our tiny population... I lived in L.A. which has a public-owned utility provider for Water and Power. No black outs, no price gouging, great service. And a heck of a lot more people and industry were served.
The big difference is that the L.A. Untility generates their own power. MCE just contracts for it. Marin would have had blackouts even if MCE were in charge.
SausalitoDog

Mill Valley, CA

#30 Apr 22, 2010
I really didn't see what a shell game (pun intended) this MCE sham is until I read this article.

We have all not noticed the fact that MCE/Shell are not CREATING any clean energy, they are just buying clean energy that would have been used somewhere else in California (probably close to it's source and more efficiently).

Who's kidding us here? Do we really think that SHELL OIL is a better company than PGE? That they can do a better job? That we will all be better off by letting the Board of Supervisors and Shell Oil weaken PGE's financials? If you do believe any of that, I would like to sell you an option on some sub-primes loans !!!

Enough said

tom
Marin RatePayer

San Jose, CA

#31 Apr 22, 2010
Shell is investing in Canadian oil sands, knowing it's environmentally damaging and financially risky.

Oil and power from oil sands produces between 15% and 40% more greenhouse gases than the average of conventional sources. About 2.5 % of Shell’s oil and gas production comes from the Athabasca oil sands, AND that is set to double, rising to 4.0%, as Shell expands its huge operations over the next two years:

http://tinyurl.com/y24yqef

http://www.SustainableBusiness.com/index.cfm/...


Shell's future "renewable power" will be dropping, per their Annual Report:

http://tinyurl.com/yk7h9w3

Since: Apr 09

Marin County, CA

#32 Apr 22, 2010
One of the reasons Athabasca is so polluting is that they have to burn much of their own production to produce the heat necessary to separate the oil from the sand....
Common Progressive

San Rafael, CA

#33 Apr 22, 2010
about the child wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow - So you prefer to stay with the giant corporate entity that has pledged 35 mill to fight ANY KIND of LOCAL action on
energy use and remain in MONOPOLY control INSTEAD OF having Representation by local officials accessible at either monthly town hall meetings or monthly energy authority meetings VS closed door dealings , new supreme court decision making corporate campaign contributions UNCAPPED, the PGE $ 35 million pledged on PROP 16 AND just reprimanded by CPUC for illegal marketing. Hard choices especially since I have such an admiration for corporate social and environmental ethics. But you know - I think I'll stay with the little guys - that I can actually SEE in my very own town AND can actually vote for.
Tinpot dictator?- dude - what history do you study and what history do you want for us? Thankfully the 'tinpot dictator' law says YOU CAN opt out and I DON'T have to stay with %^%& monopoly and can choose to support my local economy
not a $^$$ monopoly !!! Guess you would like us to have NO CHOICE - Hmmm what does that remind me of - oh right - tin pot dictators ...
Well "DUDE" the illegal seizure of PGEs customer base to support a government energy scheme by an unelected, apoointed government entity is worthy of "tinpot dictator". Noone is arguing for a monopoly. Government cannot ever be said that it is a fiar player in business. Wha "business can seize, our property, jail you for violating their rules and even take your life?

THINK. Generate you own alternative power and be TRUELY INDEPENDENT GREEN ANDFREE. The MEA is just a place for King Charlie to hang his hat after he gets booted out of office.
Power to the People

Mill Valley, CA

#34 Apr 22, 2010
Marin RatePayer wrote:
well, it looks like the "power guy" has not read the Shell/MCE Contract ...
since power guy didn't do his homework before coming to school today, we'll help him out a little ...
go to page 5, "Master Purchase Agreement", Shell & MEA, signed March 18, 2010, Parg.# 5, PRICING, EXHIBIT 1A.
Let me help you some more..
line 1-5, shows mandated price increase of (finger on the buzzer)--
$ 57./MWh for 2010, going to $70./MWh, 2014,
PLUS:$39./MWh Renewable Premium.
? GOT IT power boy ???
Oh, and BTW, PGE has REDUCED their Generation Charges in the current Rate filling. REDUCED.
? GOT IT yet power boy ???
The Marin Civil Grand Jury concluded:“Citizens of Marin are being led down a costly and extremely risky path not yet traveled by any other community in California.”
OPT OUT NOW http://tinyurl.com/ydd26vn
Hmm - awfully nasty response from someone who thinks he has all the answers. So, how about the facts:

PG&E has proposed a general rate case that will increase the cost to their customers by 27% between 2010 and 2013.

PG&E raised rates by 10% last year and another 2.5% this year.

The MEA contract with Shell requires that they provide at least 25% renewable energy and 53% carbon-free energy (Sections 2.2 and 2.3). It also requires that any unit specific power that they buy be non-coal and non-nuclear (See section 2.5). Any other power can be system power, but Shell is not likely to buy power from outside of PG&E's service territory, to avoid paying congestion prices, and none of that power is coal-fired.

So, sorry - you flunk the veracity test.
Power to the People

Mill Valley, CA

#35 Apr 22, 2010
And now, of course, with non-carbon power making up 78% of the MEA portfolio (or 100%, if you buy deep green, for all of 3 cents per kWh more), there is no way that system power would make up the balance beyond renewable, because system power is only 36% non-carbon, at best. So, your estimate of 13% coal is way too high, even if Shell were to buy carbon-fueled power outside of PG&E's territory, which they won't do.

Another F on your report card, Menlo Park guy.
Marin RatePayer

San Jose, CA

#36 Apr 22, 2010

Ahhh yess ... the fine print ...

" requires that any unit specific power " be good power ...

BUT, the problem is MEA/MCE/Shell will not or can not identify any " unit specific power " sources by contract and amounts --

Now if MCE only has a few thousand customers, no problem --

But to try and supply most of Marin County ..?? Get out the big check books !

So we guess it'sgoing to be a lot of open market (COAL) based power ...

and the Shell/MCE Contract say that non-carbon power is at an additional price premium --

So --

MCE can't / won't audit the source nor name the non-carbon price --

Kinda reminds you of the $20 million County computer system that doesn't even work yet .. doesn't it !

Just like the Marin Civil Grand Jury concluded:

“Citizens of Marin are being led down a costly and extremely risky path not yet traveled by any other community in California.”


OPT OUT NOW http://tinyurl.com/ydd26vn

West Marin Native

Berkeley, CA

#37 Apr 22, 2010
"78 percent of the electricity it will sell to customers in 2010" - No gaurantees for the years thereafter. Ever hear of bait and switch?!

"The bulk of Marin Clean Energy's carbon-free energy, about 37 percent, will be hydropower..." Funny how McGlashan once used to pitch that hydro would NOT be a part of MEA's energy mix.

Green as MEA wants to paint this initiative, it is all smoke and mirrors. When the dust settles and Marin wakes up from the hangover of drinking too much green Kool Aid, we will ALL be held to account for this boondoggle.

Like the smart city of Sausalto just chose to do, OPT OUT when you have the chance.
Question

Mill Valley, CA

#38 Apr 22, 2010
Why isn't anybody talking about how much better our electrical appliances are going to run with clean electricity?

Since: Apr 09

Marin County, CA

#39 Apr 22, 2010
If PG&E has reduced its Generation Charge in the current filing, since the current filing is an overall increase, that must mean the increase falls on transmission and distribution, right?

Guess what, folks? All electric customers, MCE and PG&E, will pay for the T&D costs.

If this is the case, MCE users won't escape the increase.....

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