Marin Clean Energy boosts use of carbon-free electricity

There are 20 comments on the Apr 21, 2010, Marin Independent Journal story titled Marin Clean Energy boosts use of carbon-free electricity. In it, Marin Independent Journal reports that:

The Marin Clean Energy initiative has dealt a blow to the argument that its customers would be producing more greenhouse gas than if they remained with Pacific Gas and Electric Co.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Marin Independent Journal.

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EnoughOfParasite s

Larkspur, CA

#1 Apr 21, 2010
" said Dawn Weisz, the authority's interim director...."

She's the busybody that sued Corte Madera and forced them to build the brown housing project by the CHP. That's probably where the muggers of the kids at Corte Madera Park fled to.

MCE is a great idea but we will choose to opt out until the "intermim director becomes the Ex-director.
I like blue better

Oakland, CA

#2 Apr 21, 2010
Talk about misinformation. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU MORONS?
When you flip a switch YOU ARE GOING TO BE GETTING THE EXACT SAME POWER FROM THE EXACT SAME SOURCE AS ALWAYS!
Opt out, opt in, opt up or down makes no difference.
We have created another bureaucracy and sending more money out of the country but some will feel good because they think they are powering their homes with sunshine.
YOU are the ones that have been manipulated.
mikes

Danville, CA

#3 Apr 21, 2010
WHAT a joke mce is

they do not own the lines or the transformers or poles meters
NukesRule

San Rafael, CA

#4 Apr 21, 2010
The little incident in Iceland should put things in context, but I'm afraid 'global perspective' is not one of the defining attributes of libs or greens. Are people in Marin really that stupid, to think they can save the planet by harnessing swamp gas or bovine flatulence? Or hooking up some puny-ass windmills or solar panels with 19% efficiency?? Also, the economics dont support such nonsense. MEA needs to be squashed like a bug - it's nothing but a great big giant SCAM! By excluding hydroelectric and nuclear power from renewable energy def, they've proven theyre just playing semantics. The whole scheme smacks of deception. I'll take another multi-gigawatt nuke plant any day.
Hmmmm

Santa Rosa, CA

#5 Apr 21, 2010
MCE is Shell Oil! But it gives me that green fuzzy feeling. Ha!
Hmmmm

Santa Rosa, CA

#6 Apr 21, 2010
Why does Richard Halstead only write articles that support MCE? Maybe he is on their payroll?
Long Term Mull

San Rafael, CA

#7 Apr 21, 2010
A few years ago we finally got an option to purchase generation from any supplier, then lost that option when the Enron related folks rigged the system and the state had to step in.
If you look at the PG&E Tariff documents, you will see that the energy charges are split between generation, distribution, and transmission of power.
MCE and its like allow some competition in the generation part of this equation for their service areas.
Remember this when PG&E asks you to vote for their proposition (16) to essentially prohibit future competition. Their goal is to keep competition out of their area, period.
What purchasing power from MCE does is allow you some choice about what power goes into the transmission/distribution system to offset what you use from the system.
It is much like when your paycheck gets auto deposited into your bank account and you then take some money from an ATM. In the MCE case, you don't get the same energy that was deposited. In the banking case, you don't get the same dollars out of the ATM. But in both cases you get out an equivalent amount to what was put in at another location.
The utility still gets its cut for transmission and distribution.(Which is why you don't need new wires to your house.)
High Voltage

Vallejo, CA

#8 Apr 21, 2010
Long Term Mull wrote:
A few years ago we finally got an option to purchase generation from any supplier, then lost that option when the Enron related folks rigged the system and the state had to step in.
If you look at the PG&E Tariff documents, you will see that the energy charges are split between generation, distribution, and transmission of power.
MCE and its like allow some competition in the generation part of this equation for their service areas.
Remember this when PG&E asks you to vote for their proposition (16) to essentially prohibit future competition. Their goal is to keep competition out of their area, period.
What purchasing power from MCE does is allow you some choice about what power goes into the transmission/distribution system to offset what you use from the system.
It is much like when your paycheck gets auto deposited into your bank account and you then take some money from an ATM. In the MCE case, you don't get the same energy that was deposited. In the banking case, you don't get the same dollars out of the ATM. But in both cases you get out an equivalent amount to what was put in at another location.
The utility still gets its cut for transmission and distribution.(Which is why you don't need new wires to your house.)
Careful, these dorks aren't use to thinking that hard. They would rather support unending resource wars and have parades for dead soldiers. Jerks... they actually think they are more American by supporting use of foreign oil. Go figure that one out.
Low Voltage

San Anselmo, CA

#9 Apr 21, 2010
Thank God for MEA, otherwise all this green energy would be lost in the abyss.

The ignorance of the green paint brush never ceases to amaze me.
High Voltage

Vallejo, CA

#10 Apr 21, 2010
Hmmmm wrote:
Why does Richard Halstead only write articles that support MCE? Maybe he is on their payroll?
Or, just smarter than you. My money is on, smarter than you.
High Voltage

Vallejo, CA

#11 Apr 21, 2010
Low Voltage wrote:
Thank God for MEA, otherwise all this green energy would be lost in the abyss.
The ignorance of the green paint brush never ceases to amaze me.
How do you do with rollie pollies? Spend a lot of time figuring those out also?
Hmmmm

Santa Rosa, CA

#12 Apr 21, 2010
High Voltage wrote:
<quoted text>
Or, just smarter than you. My money is on, smarter than you.
If smarter is writing biased articles for what is suppose to be an ubiased media outlet, then I guess he is smarter. Don't you have anything better to do that commenting on comments. Trying having an opinion of the article, not the comments.
Truth Seeker

Sunnyvale, CA

#13 Apr 21, 2010
Well the skeptics said it couldn't be done, but it has been done. Marin Clean Energy secured double the renewable rate, with almost 75% greenhouse gas free energy, with no nuclear or coal, at the same or lower rate. Congratulations to us...we are well on our way to 100% local, renewable energy and this is a great way to start.

Wonder what the skeptics will say now?
capitalism

San Anselmo, CA

#14 Apr 21, 2010
When MEA expenses start to spiral out of control, they will begin to charge more. PGE however will stay lock step with MEA prices. That means MEA will end up costing everyone whether you are on PGE or MEA.

If MEA fails quickly then PGE electricity will be lower than had MEA been around.

At the end of the day, MEA is creating a perfect storm for Capitalism. Competition can be good except when government is one of the competitors, then the private sector will charge more because they will still be less than government or in this case MEA.

This is well documented in MBA Economic books.
libtard

San Anselmo, CA

#15 Apr 21, 2010
Truth Seeker wrote:
Well the skeptics said it couldn't be done, but it has been done. Marin Clean Energy secured double the renewable rate, with almost 75% greenhouse gas free energy, with no nuclear or coal, at the same or lower rate. Congratulations to us...we are well on our way to 100% local, renewable energy and this is a great way to start.
Wonder what the skeptics will say now?
Wow, you should receive an award for saving the world. Really, what would we do without you? And who ever said liberalism was a mental disorder...
High Voltage

Vallejo, CA

#16 Apr 22, 2010
libtard wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, you should receive an award for saving the world. Really, what would we do without you? And who ever said liberalism was a mental disorder...
It was you who said it, mainly because you have nothing else to say, so you come up with asinine repetitive meaningless mantras.

Give it a rest, we already know you're an imbecile, you don't need to keep proving it over and over.

“http://envirocie ty.org/”

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#17 Apr 22, 2010
That's impossible - you can think about it. If that "free energy" can be used and produced free - What kind of business is that. Many people have head of your shoulders and if they think and work at this direction, they will find out that "secret" - how they produce that "free energy". I use and like the standard alternative energy sources - water, wind, solar energy. I always suggest to the people to take a look this - http://energysupply.biz/renewable_and_alterna... - and to think about that kind of "free carbon energy" .
Marin RatePayer

Mill Valley, CA

#18 Apr 22, 2010

Here is the punch line:

" Shell has pledged to provide energy with a carbon content equal to or less than the carbon content of energy supplied by PG&E. The provision requires the authority to bear the additional cost of supplying the extra carbon-neutral energy. "

Note: " bear add cost of supplying carbon-neutral energy ".

By next year, MCE power purchase costs would be double current PGE rates, and ..
will make Charles'$20 Million County computer system failure and Charles'$ 180 Million SMART short fall, both look minor in comparison.

BTW, MCE can't produce any Shell contract showing power purchases from:

37% supplied by Tri-Dam Power Authority, San Joaquin County,
9% from landfill gas in Oregon,
8% from wind in Washington,
5% from biomass from Washington,

...at rates below PGE.


These sources will be double the cost of PGE's low GHG generating sources. Double the cost.

So ....

1. Shell/MCE power costs will raise 23%. Guaranteed.

2. Shell/MCE has no obligation to provide contractual low emissions Power. There are No Shell/MCE independent audits.

3. About 1/3 of Shell's power purchases will be Coal based High emissions, the DIRTIEST of power generation.

4. Shell is investing in Canadian oil sands, knowing it's environmentally damaging and financially risky.

Oil and power from oil sands produces between 15% and 40% more greenhouse gases than the average of conventional sources. About 2.5 % of Shell’s oil and gas production comes from the Athabasca oil sands, AND that is set to double, rising to 4.0%, as Shell expands its huge operations over the next two years:

http://tinyurl.com/y24yqef
http://www.SustainableBusiness.com/index.cfm/...


OPT OUT NOW http://tinyurl.com/ydd26vn

Power guy

United States

#19 Apr 22, 2010
Marin RatePayer wrote:
Here is the punch line:
" Shell has pledged to provide energy with a carbon content equal to or less than the carbon content of energy supplied by PG&E. The provision requires the authority to bear the additional cost of supplying the extra carbon-neutral energy. "
Note: " bear add cost of supplying carbon-neutral energy ".
By next year, MCE power purchase costs would be double current PGE rates, and ..
will make Charles'$20 Million County computer system failure and Charles'$ 180 Million SMART short fall, both look minor in comparison.
BTW, MCE can't produce any Shell contract showing power purchases from:
37% supplied by Tri-Dam Power Authority, San Joaquin County,
9% from landfill gas in Oregon,
8% from wind in Washington,
5% from biomass from Washington,
...at rates below PGE.
These sources will be double the cost of PGE's low GHG generating sources. Double the cost.
So ....
1. Shell/MCE power costs will raise 23%. Guaranteed.
2. Shell/MCE has no obligation to provide contractual low emissions Power. There are No Shell/MCE independent audits.
3. About 1/3 of Shell's power purchases will be Coal based High emissions, the DIRTIEST of power generation.
4. Shell is investing in Canadian oil sands, knowing it's environmentally damaging and financially risky.
Oil and power from oil sands produces between 15% and 40% more greenhouse gases than the average of conventional sources. About 2.5 % of Shell’s oil and gas production comes from the Athabasca oil sands, AND that is set to double, rising to 4.0%, as Shell expands its huge operations over the next two years:
http://tinyurl.com/y24yqef
http://www.SustainableBusiness.com/index.cfm/...
OPT OUT NOW http://tinyurl.com/ydd26vn
Amazing - not even the truth can stop you from all of your inane accusations. MEA's rates aren't going to go up 23% next year - it is PG&E that is proposing rate increases of at least 15% in the next three years. And then PG&E wants you - the Marin ratepayer - to pay even more, so they can charge people in Bakersfield less. So, stay with PG&E if you want to, but YOU'RE going to be the one paying 23% rate increases, not those of us who are wise enough to be an MEA customer.

And where is West Marin Native now, with his rants about MEA not being green power? We really need him to come clean and admit that MEA is much greener than PG&E. Your allegations about coal-fired power are completely wrong - most of the carbon-based power that Shell sells is from natural gas-fired power - just as PG&E's is. And your allegation that Shell has no contractual obligation to provide non-carbon power is also just wrong. Read their contract - they are required to sell power that has no more carbon content than does PG&E's.
If you dont like SHELL

San Rafael, CA

#20 Apr 22, 2010
Then you'd better start looking for a third alternative
Many of you have written that you object to MCE's contract with Shell Energy North America, and that you will "opt-out" because of it.
If you honestly believe this as a matter of principle, then you must also opt out of PG&E.
Check out PG&E's own website at http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/2010-e.... as well as the California Public Utilities Commission at http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PUBLISHED/COMMENT_RES...
Both refer to PG&E contracts with SHELL. And have fun trying to figure out where the rest of their "renewable" power comes from.
By the way,google provides 474,000 hits for pedal powered generators. Good luck.

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