In search of the perfect battery

[ClamBob]

oops, bad math.

500 kW / 240V = appx 2000 amps. WOW That really is some machine.

[JohnOrion]

Copy Cat wrote:

Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could call for an electric car that would come to your house, you got in and told it where you wanted to go and it'd take you there automatically! The technology is available right now for this to happen. YES! The money is available too. Look at the billions we spend on cars and roads every year. This system could run on a single rail eliminating a lot of road maintenance, and its all possible right now.

Take it one step further. Make it fly.

[Rusty Jeep]

ClamBob wrote:

Great links, Rusty Jeep.
I have a few questions left unaddressed.
Is the 65 kW power of the G4-e peak or sustained? That would have to be known to calculate cost of charge.
How many amps does the quick charger draw? I have a feeling it is more than the electrical service of a normal two story house can supply. That would be the reason for locating it in a "car park".
A litle very presumptive math:
65 kW x 2 hours ( appx. 120 miles)= 130 kW hours
130 kWh x $.10 =$13.00 for 120 miles = not bad at all.
All presumptive, of course, and there would probably be a premium for the use of a quick charger. Someone would have to make a profit from the service.
It must be one heck of a machine, able to provide appx. 500 kW of power for 15 continuous minutes.
I wonder what the charging voltage is. Even at 240 volts single phase, that's close to 200 amps of service plus any loss from conversion to DC. It obviously can't be 12 volts; that would be 4000 amps. That would be impracticle due to cable size. Heck, 200 amps requires a pretty stout cable.

The TEPCO charger is a breakthrough design and Subaru plans to sell the technology to other electric vehicle manufacturers. We can only guess what technology lurks inside this remarkable creation visible next to the car in the picture:

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/subaru/2007-suba...

It sort of resembles a gas pump in appearance. I read somewhere that it plugs into a 220V clothes dryer outlet.

Of course, the car can also be recharged in 6 to 8 hours in a normal 110V house outlet.

My guess is that the quick-charger recharges itself between duty cycles so that it can burst the charge into the car, rather than merely converting electricity on the fly.

Tokyo Electric Power Company (makers of the TEPCO charger) worked in collaboration with Subaru and NEC to develop this beast and obviously have found solutions to all the mathmatical impossibilities that you have pointed out. They know something we don't know.

We may have to buy a TEPCO charger and disect it to discover the secret. Here's a bit more detail:

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/subaru/2007-suba...

[Rusty Jeep]

ClamBob wrote:

oops, bad math.
500 kW / 240V = appx 2000 amps. WOW That really is some machine.

Since the car can be recharged in 8 hours using a normal 220V clothes dryer outlet, maybe you can figure its capacity from that perspective.

The car is powered with an AC motor because of 40% more power for pulling hills and 10% less battery drain overall than a DC motor provides.

Not much is known about the new larger G4-e car except that Subaru engineers have achieved a 120 mile range using a newly developed metal for the positive battery posts. If I run across that info again, I'll post the link here so you can include that in your calculations.

Keep in mind that several of the EV manufacturers are using water cooling systems with radiators to keep motors and battery packs from overheating.

ALL of this fabulous technology is taking place overseas because the United States limits electric cars to 25 miles per hour to appease BIG OIL and its $3.25 per gallon joy ride.

[ClamBob]

I'm guessing the charging system is high voltage looking at the size of the charging cable. It doesn't appear it could handle more than 150 amps continuous.

Would love to see more specs on the charging system, battery layout, and engine voltage.

Again, nice links.

[Rusty Jeep]

From what I have been able to dig up so far, the smaller Subaru recharges on household 110V outlet and the larger Subaru recharges on a 220V clothes dryer outlet. It seems to change from one news report to the next.

Since normal household electricity in Japan is 220V (ditto in Europe) some news reports are probably talking about Japan and others are probably talking about the US.

We'll know more as information dribbles through the grapevine.

[ClamBob]

Ahhh, if it is a real dryer plug -- most are 208V to 240V at 30 Amps -- then:

30A x 80% for continuous duty = 24A

24A x 240V = 5.76 kW

5.76 kW x 8 hrs = 46 kW hours or about $4.60 @$.10 per kilowatt hour. of course, that is an 80% charge which would be about 96 miles.

Doesn't seem right. Maybe a special plug that looks like a dryer plug.

The motor can put out 65 kW for 2 hours (130 kW hours) and charges 80% in 8 hours (104 kW hours).

104 kW hours / 8 hours = 13 kW charging power.

13 kW / 240 volts = 54 Amps continuous.

This should require a 60 Amp breaker. Many range outlets fit this bill.

[Jim]

Mr Reality wrote:

<quoted text>
You are off topic (batteries for electric cars)
and woefully arrogant "...I could complain WAY more intelligibly than you against the government"
I think your opinions are moot, given the current events of GWB administrations and the state of the world and the united states.
So,...back to electric cars

Hell it isn't just Bush it is the whole gaggle of idiots running the show and special interest rule. George Washington warned us against career policticitian, lobbyists, large foreign debt and military alliances with country's that do us no good. what do we have all of them smart man saw it all 130 years ago. Pols will never do anything that isn't partisan only talk about it. Can you spell worthless pols?