Officials unveil new plan to save, restore sea

Mar 31, 2007 Full story: Desert Sun 35

“We'd have to drive a long ways to get to some water.”

While far from complete, the draft proposal state officials released Tuesday is the first glance at what's being considered the best chance to save and restore the Salton Sea. via Desert Sun

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“SW Adventures and Resources”

Since: Aug 07

United States

#21 Sep 3, 2007
FOR CITIZEN X...

REPLY:
Thank you...you did a nice job explaining. The only problem I noticed was the above comment that there are no signficant faults under the Salton Sea." Someone begs to differ with you in your state...I cannot search today but I know I read about it in one of their Earthquake Preparedness articles. They are concerned the Big Quake will begin at Salton Sea.

I apologize for using the word "tsunami" so generally; what I meant was the idea of the ground ripping apart just north of the edge of Salton Sea...allowing water to spill out.

QUESTION: What is the lay of the land, the terrain, north of the Salton Sea? Does it run uphill or down...or does it all stay flat for how many miles?

NOTE: I was a bit surprised about the history of Salton Sea being a dry lake bed. What was the "accident" that created it? And....more importantly, can that same accident occur once again?

You raised a very good point about the danger of the Sea drying out now, i.e., the chemicals in the dust that would blow around.

Life gets complicated.

PURSUIT:
I think you should pursue your idea of pumping reclaimed water into such areas...seems to me that drastic solutions will be needed for future survival times. In fact, they could use it now to fight all of those fires.

Have you read anything about LeTourneau and his giant earth-moving machines? I have often thought that someone needs to get creative in the same "think outside the box" brainstorming manner re: shipping water from areas with heavy rain to drought-stricken regions.

I think you are onto something important and as you implied, resources would not be provided until the whole area realizes its urgency. So, don't let anyone intimidate you. Just refine all of your ideas onto paper, get the homework and statistics fully documented, in place and maybe copyright your final presentation for legal protection.

At the very least, you should mail an extra copy of your plan to yourself, NOT opening the envelope but saving it in a safe deposit box and another copy in your own "FireSafe", thus proving postmark date in case someone sues you in the future for stealing "their" idea. I had a professor teach us that temporary fix when authors were unable to afford the money to purchase a copyright search.

Having it on hand just proves the timing of when you had the idea so a court can determine who thought of it first.

Or is this someone else's idea that you are developing to the next level? Must give credit.

What is your occupation? It is refreshing to have serious discussion on the Forum without the usual emotional assaults or rough langage that others use. That type of networking is so crucial right now with disasters happening from coast to coast.

“All power to the people.”

Since: Mar 07

San Diego, CA

#22 Sep 3, 2007
swreview wrote:
Thank you...you did a nice job explaining. The only problem I noticed was the above comment that there are no signficant faults under the Salton Sea." Someone begs to differ with you in your state...I cannot search today but I know I read about it in one of their Earthquake Preparedness articles. They are concerned the Big Quake will begin at Salton Sea.
Earthquake map link that shows the major faults around the Salton Sea.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqs...

As you can see there are a few around the lake but none under it (at least known faults). The San Andreas is to the West.
swreview wrote:
I apologize for using the word "tsunami" so generally; what I meant was the idea of the ground ripping apart just north of the edge of Salton Sea...allowing water to spill out.
QUESTION: What is the lay of the land, the terrain, north of the Salton Sea? Does it run uphill or down...or does it all stay flat for how many miles?
NOTE: I was a bit surprised about the history of Salton Sea being a dry lake bed. What was the "accident" that created it? And....more importantly, can that same accident occur once again?
I don't know if Tsunami is appropriate for a wave like that in a lake but I understand what you meant. The Imperial Valley is for the most part below sea level. Most of it is flat being a dry lake bed (Salton Sea). To the north is more "high desert" I think around a thousand(s) feet. West is fairly flat till you get to the mountains in Eastern San Diego. To the South it is flat and below sea level as well as east. Most of my driving through there is south of the lake on I-8. It varies between -235 feet to probably 138 feet above sea level in Yuma Arizona.

Here is a link that explains the accident that created the "permanent" lake.

http://www.hbw.addr.com/barbarahistory.htm

It's about 370 square miles and 51 feet at its deepest so relatively speaking it is not very deep. Could it happen again. Yes, but not likely as "technology" of flood control levees is better than in the early 1900's.

You could raise the lake level 20 feet (just a guess) to the shoreline back when people started putting in building lots. There are a lot of streets with utilities in place that have been abandoned. Now they are anywhere from 20 to hundreds of feet from the shoreline.

“All power to the people.”

Since: Mar 07

San Diego, CA

#23 Sep 3, 2007
swreview wrote:
FOR CITIZEN X...PURSUIT:
I think you should pursue your idea of pumping reclaimed water into such areas...seems to me that drastic solutions will be needed for future survival times. In fact, they could use it now to fight all of those fires.
Have you read anything about LeTourneau and his giant earth-moving machines? I have often thought that someone needs to get creative in the same "think outside the box" brainstorming manner re: shipping water from areas with heavy rain to drought-stricken regions.
I think you are onto something important and as you implied, resources would not be provided until the whole area realizes its urgency. So, don't let anyone intimidate you. Just refine all of your ideas onto paper, get the homework and statistics fully documented, in place and maybe copyright your final presentation for legal protection.
At the very least, you should mail an extra copy of your plan to yourself, NOT opening the envelope but saving it in a safe deposit box and another copy in your own "FireSafe", thus proving postmark date in case someone sues you in the future for stealing "their" idea. I had a professor teach us that temporary fix when authors were unable to afford the money to purchase a copyright search.
Having it on hand just proves the timing of when you had the idea so a court can determine who thought of it first.
Or is this someone else's idea that you are developing to the next level? Must give credit.
What is your occupation? It is refreshing to have serious discussion on the Forum without the usual emotional assaults or rough langage that others use. That type of networking is so crucial right now with disasters happening from coast to coast.
I tend to be an idealist and utopian. To me this is a no brainer. Waste water put to use. Energy generated. Farms irrigated and the lake saved. From the coast to the mountains east of San Diego is I-8. Most of it is divided highway so the right of way is taken care of. There is a natural drop of over 4000 feet in probably less than 10 miles. There are places for catch basins or storage lakes (recreational opportunities) and jobs. The drop in altitude with all that water is an opportunity for electricity generation. The water could be used for irrigation in the Imperial Valley negating the need to bring water 1000's of miles for that purpose through the All American Canal. This is water from Northern California or the Colorado River. You know the Colorado often no longer flows into the Gulf of California. It dries up.

Water for firefighting. A fine idea. It actually wouldn't take giant earth moving machines. Like I said, there is a divided highway for the route. The distance is probably 50 miles to where gravity would take over. I often wonder if the would be a net gain in energy cost getting the water over the mountains, what with gravity and energy generation. Theoretically you could siphon the water over the mountains.

I'm just a "pioneer" that thinks outside of the box. I do know if I had the money, I would hire the right people to put together the proposal. I have considered pursuing this but..... you know what I mean. I'm just a guy.

“SW Adventures and Resources”

Since: Aug 07

United States

#24 Sep 5, 2007
CitizenX wrote:
<quoted text>
I tend to be an idealist and utopian. To me this is a no brainer. Waste water put to use. Energy generated. Farms irrigated and the lake saved. From the coast to the mountains east of San Diego is I-8. Most of it is divided highway so the right of way is taken care of. There is a natural drop of over 4000 feet in probably less than 10 miles. There are places for catch basins or storage lakes (recreational opportunities) and jobs. The drop in altitude with all that water is an opportunity for electricity generation. The water could be used for irrigation in the Imperial Valley negating the need to bring water 1000's of miles for that purpose through the All American Canal. This is water from Northern California or the Colorado River. You know the Colorado often no longer flows into the Gulf of California. It dries up.
Water for firefighting. A fine idea. It actually wouldn't take giant earth moving machines. Like I said, there is a divided highway for the route. The distance is probably 50 miles to where gravity would take over. I often wonder if the would be a net gain in energy cost getting the water over the mountains, what with gravity and energy generation. Theoretically you could siphon the water over the mountains.
I'm just a "pioneer" that thinks outside of the box. I do know if I had the money, I would hire the right people to put together the proposal. I have considered pursuing this but..... you know what I mean. I'm just a guy.
Thank you so much for the research URLS...in both replies. It sounds like you are a gifted individual whom no one networked properly as you moved through the educational system. I just prayed for you to either get your degree or have advocates connect you with city councils, etc. where your observations and ideas can be presented.

I teach gifted children long distance by speaker telephone -- the parents hire me to prepare them for college. By age ten, they usually know which career they want to pursue. By contrast, there are so many gifted adults without the right "credentials" who really need advocates to connect them to employers and city planning committees because they have very helpful innovative ideas. The secret is to network with other gifted people in those businesses who understand you. Hang in there...thanks for the help. I wish you could set up a visual teaching class on this whole water issue. I have been concerned about it for years but I am quite uneducated in all of the facts from coast to coast. I do have a map showing all of the water sources for our nation. Your comment about the Colorado River not feeding into the Gulf of Mexico anymore made me want to know more, i.e., why and how that sad fact happened.

“All power to the people.”

Since: Mar 07

San Diego, CA

#25 Sep 5, 2007
swreview wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you so much for the research URLS...in both replies. It sounds like you are a gifted individual whom no one networked properly as you moved through the educational system. I just prayed for you to either get your degree or have advocates connect you with city councils, etc. where your observations and ideas can be presented.
I teach gifted children long distance by speaker telephone -- the parents hire me to prepare them for college. By age ten, they usually know which career they want to pursue. By contrast, there are so many gifted adults without the right "credentials" who really need advocates to connect them to employers and city planning committees because they have very helpful innovative ideas. The secret is to network with other gifted people in those businesses who understand you. Hang in there...thanks for the help. I wish you could set up a visual teaching class on this whole water issue. I have been concerned about it for years but I am quite uneducated in all of the facts from coast to coast. I do have a map showing all of the water sources for our nation. Your comment about the Colorado River not feeding into the Gulf of Mexico anymore made me want to know more, i.e., why and how that sad fact happened.
I'll write more later but it's not uncommon for the Colorado to dry up and not flow anymore into the Gulf of California (Sea of Cortez). The water is used to slake the thirst of SoCal and for irrigation. It takes a lot of water to keep this desert down here green.
Phoenix

Phoenix, AZ

#26 Sep 14, 2007
I'm just happy the person that came up with this plan isn't a brain surgeon of course anyone looking at this plan can tell that.

“SW Adventures and Resources”

Since: Aug 07

United States

#27 Sep 16, 2007
CitizenX wrote:
<quoted text>
Earthquake map link that shows the major faults around the Salton Sea.
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqs...
As you can see there are a few around the lake but none under it (at least known faults). The San Andreas is to the West.
<quoted text>
I don't know if Tsunami is appropriate for a wave like that in a lake but I understand what you meant. The Imperial Valley is for the most part below sea level. Most of it is flat being a dry lake bed (Salton Sea). To the north is more "high desert" I think around a thousand(s) feet. West is fairly flat till you get to the mountains in Eastern San Diego. To the South it is flat and below sea level as well as east. Most of my driving through there is south of the lake on I-8. It varies between -235 feet to probably 138 feet above sea level in Yuma Arizona.
Here is a link that explains the accident that created the "permanent" lake.
http://www.hbw.addr.com/barbarahistory.htm
It's about 370 square miles and 51 feet at its deepest so relatively speaking it is not very deep. Could it happen again. Yes, but not likely as "technology" of flood control levees is better than in the early 1900's.
You could raise the lake level 20 feet (just a guess) to the shoreline back when people started putting in building lots. There are a lot of streets with utilities in place that have been abandoned. Now they are anywhere from 20 to hundreds of feet from the shoreline.
REPLY: I was studying your two URLS this week. Much appreciated. With regard to the USGS map, I do not think that they show fault lines that run underneath places. Perhaps researching their Quatenary Maps would reveal more about whether fault lines are under the Salton Sea? In other words, when a fault line stops at some other graphic on the page, just follow it through as if it would come out on the other side. Not true in all cases. I see a lot of diagonal fault lines in maps across the nation. Also, watch the earthquakes south of your state in Mexico...one that starts there could domino-effect northward, triggering fault lines in California.

Your URL about the history dating way back was incredible. I couldn't help but think how powerful the Colorado River was that it destroyed dam after dam in the region.

Question: when did the term "Imperial Valley" become "Coachella Valley" or are those two valleys still separate?

“All power to the people.”

Since: Mar 07

San Diego, CA

#28 Sep 16, 2007
swreview wrote:
<quoted text>
REPLY: I was studying your two URLS this week. Much appreciated. With regard to the USGS map, I do not think that they show fault lines that run underneath places. Perhaps researching their Quatenary Maps would reveal more about whether fault lines are under the Salton Sea? In other words, when a fault line stops at some other graphic on the page, just follow it through as if it would come out on the other side. Not true in all cases. I see a lot of diagonal fault lines in maps across the nation. Also, watch the earthquakes south of your state in Mexico...one that starts there could domino-effect northward, triggering fault lines in California.
Your URL about the history dating way back was incredible. I couldn't help but think how powerful the Colorado River was that it destroyed dam after dam in the region.
Question: when did the term "Imperial Valley" become "Coachella Valley" or are those two valleys still separate?
The Coachella Valley is pretty much north of the Lake, south of there is the Imperial Valley in Imperial County, CA.

As far as faults under the Salton Sea. I can't find the map of earthquake history but there definitely were no earthquakes centered under the Salton Sea. Also, If you check up by Lake Tahoe, you will see they show faults under Lake Tahoe. I don't know why they would treat the Salton Sea differently.

You may be right. I did a quick look at Cape Gerardeau in MO, and I don't see the New Madrid fault.

As far as the lateral faults (horizontal), SoCal is sliding NW and will eventually end up in Alaska.
Mick Dundee

Calgary, Canada

#29 Oct 15, 2007
Had the pleasure of seeing the Sultan Sea, i am from Canada and my opinion is clean it and keep it the way it is, let the local communities that have battled over the years stay their and grow. I understand that it will cost billions to clean and worth every cent and the lake (sea)should never be divided up how ridiculos.
You have a great piece of Americana at the Sultan Sea, please dont turn it into Condos for the rich and famous people no one cares about.
Not Listening to Hear-say

United States

#30 Jan 19, 2008
Sorry -- it's not a Lake IT IS A SEA!!
The largest body of water in the Western United States, and the only inland SEA in the United States!
However, I agree the salts and other 'entities' below this water will not be anything anyone wants to breath.
HELLO ---- Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico & etc. Ever hear of Owens Lake!
Pamela

AOL

#31 May 1, 2008
Restoring the water level in the sea is the one plan everyone wants.Non portable water seems the best idea. What about all the water from the Palm Springs area,and El Centro? Where is this water going now?I like the idea of re directing the water that is now going into the ocean.Remember it won't take that much water to fix the Salton Sea.To put it back to the level it was in 2004 would work well enough.That year there was little die off of the fish.The odor of the Sea was not as bad as other years.Put together with a not large desalting plant it could be save .
Pamela
Set the record stright

Los Angeles, CA

#32 May 1, 2008
Worth saving does not have a clue as to what is going on at SCSD. A new plant is under construction. The County IS issuing building permits!! Our sewer rates are the lowest in the county!! I think you listen to Barrett's bull to much.

“SW Adventures and Resources”

Since: Aug 07

Bellevue, NE

#33 May 5, 2008
Hello, Citizen X,

I hope you find this. I am sorry that I missed your reply to one of my comments from last year concerning the Salton Sea issues.

You mentioned the absence of earthquake maps showing possible fault lines under Salton Sea and the New Madrid area showing the same puzzling absence...yet you saw fault lines under Lake Tahoe. Thank you for that observation...it was very helpful.

I just wanted to add one more theory as to why fault lines do not always show...USGS explained to me that with regard to other states' areas, they often have not been given the funding to finish all such map studies. That would be something to check out with Southern California...were the scientists able to finish all of the mapping studies for the Salton Sea?

Lacking detailed ground studies, it could also be true that they only print map fault lines for some areas if there were recorded earthquakes at that location before the time the maps were created. However, since so many smaller earthquakes have been happening right at Salton Sea in the past few years, especially at the southern edge, I would think you would have to conclude that fault lines are underneath the Salton Sea itself, unless they all miraculously stop right at the water's edge.

NOTE: your information about the Southern CA area pulling away to the NW matched what a USGS scientist told me over one year ago...that California could eventually end up near Alaska.

Question: is Northern CA also pulling in the same direction or are they thinking that the state could split in half with only Southern CA floating NW to Alaska?

It was good to re-read your several explanations from last year. I trust that someone honorable can make good use of your brainstorming ability, Citizen X. I need to copy down the facts you mentioned...I have many more questions but know that I should research more of the history myself. Thank you so much for making it easier for me. I was fascinated with your explanations of the lay of the land...wish I had a visual picture of it all...perhaps I will draw it out myself to integrate all of the factors you mentioned.

By the way, since you mentioned being a truck driver (right?), how in the world are you managing with such high fuel prices now? Are you or the company for whom you work still in business? Thinking of all of you guys and gals who work so hard, bouncing over the highways. I hope all is well. If not, remember the saying from the "Sound of Music" movie: "When God closes a door, He opens a window." If that happens to you, maybe you can reinvent your career via these scientific endeavors...you surely have a strong background of interest and research in it. God's grace to you.
CitizenX wrote:
<quoted text>
The Coachella Valley is pretty much north of the Lake, south of there is the Imperial Valley in Imperial County, CA.
As far as faults under the Salton Sea. I can't find the map of earthquake history but there definitely were no earthquakes centered under the Salton Sea. Also, If you check up by Lake Tahoe, you will see they show faults under Lake Tahoe. I don't know why they would treat the Salton Sea differently.
You may be right. I did a quick look at Cape Gerardeau in MO, and I don't see the New Madrid fault.
As far as the lateral faults (horizontal), SoCal is sliding NW and will eventually end up in Alaska.
worth saving

Ontario, CA

#34 May 8, 2008
Unfortunately, I know all too well what is going on at the SCSD. It took them 6 months to get out the bids for the new perc. pond! Yes, the County is ONCE AGAIN issuing building permits. Your sewer rates won't be the lowest for long! I know who you are...BARRETT BASHER.
Set the record stright wrote:
Worth saving does not have a clue as to what is going on at SCSD. A new plant is under construction. The County IS issuing building permits!! Our sewer rates are the lowest in the county!! I think you listen to Barrett's bull to much.
papa

United States

#35 Feb 11, 2010
I have been going to Bombay Beach for years,have had more fun.My kids and there kids still go there.They have been putting money in to see what can be done to save the beach.All the money that has been spend over 50 years.They could have done more.I have had a place at BB for 20years.I hate to see it go.The county could help clean the place.We paid taxes like everyone else.

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