Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 31996 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20443 Feb 20, 2013
Joseph Smith

"God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me to be God to you in His stead, and the elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it, you must lump it" (Documentary History of the Church, vol. 6, pp 319-320).

"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I" (D.H C., vol. 6, p. 408-409).

"The whole Earth shall bear me witness that I, like the towering rock in the midst of the ocean, which has withstood the mighty surges of the warring waves for centuries, am impregnable ... I combat the errors of ages; I meet the violence of mobs; I cope with illegal proceedings from executive authority; I cut the gordian knot of powers, and I solve mathematical problems of universities, with truth -- diamond truth; and God is my right hand man." (D.H.C., Vol. 6, p. 78).

"And I prophesy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted and there will not be so much as a potsherd left,..." (D.H C., vol. 5, p. 394).[This prophecy was made in May of 1843, and the United States government has not been overthrown and wasted.]

"Here then is eternal life -- to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you..." (Teachings of the Prophet, Joseph Smith, p. 346).

"In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it" (Ibid., p. 349).

"The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us is to seek after our dead" [Our God of the Bible has forbidden us to have anything to do with the dead (Deut. 18:10,11).

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20444 Feb 20, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, it was published by Bookcraft, which was a privately owned company at the time it was printed. It was not owned by the church at that time.
You will also notice in the front cover of the book the words "The views expressed herein are the responsibility of the author and do not necessarily represent the position of the Church or of Deseret Book Company."
Could the book be any clearer?
Why would it say "not necessarily represent the position of the... Deseret Book Company" If it wasn't published by Deseret?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20445 Feb 20, 2013
Father overtime wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes something's are impossible. God can't take away agency, and god can't tell everybody , this is my son in whom I am we'll pleased, and pretend to be Jesus at the same time. That would make god a ventriliquist and a liar. Nice try.
Your ignorance in the teaching of the Trinity does help you. There is nothing my God can't do, why is your God limited?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20446 Feb 20, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
You will also notice, in the front cover, the following words:
"This work is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
Dana,
Where did you hear that the Book "Mormon Doctrine" was published by the church?
You can find a similar statement in every Ensign. The church has been bitten in the butt so many times by it's own publications they make such claims in almost every publication to have a cop out. In the 60's and 70's "Mormon Doctrine" was a must have for every member of the church and could be found in most of their homes.
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20447 Feb 20, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
You can find a similar statement in every Ensign. The church has been bitten in the butt so many times by it's own publications they make such claims in almost every publication to have a cop out. In the 60's and 70's "Mormon Doctrine" was a must have for every member of the church and could be found in most of their homes.
Amen

and the book Mormon Doctrine is still used as are all his so called fringe books.

If they were not 80%+ of what LDS claim today is restored doctrine from 30AD would not exist as it can't be found in D&C BOM POGP.

They have put themselves in a situation they can't win.

They want their cake and to eat to.
Father overtime

Longmont, CO

#20449 Feb 20, 2013
concerned in Egypt wrote:
Milton R. Hunter wrote: "God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar to that through which we are now passing. He became a God" (The Gospel Through the Ages, p.104);"there was a time when the Deity was much less powerful than He is today...He grew in experience and continued to grow until He attained the status of Godhood. In other words, He became a God by absolute obedience..." (The Gospel Through the Ages, p.114-115).
Bruce McConkie states: "God himself, the Father of us all, is a glorious, exalted, immortal, resurrected man" (Mormon Doctrine, p.642-643); "God...is a personal Being, a holy and exalted man...an anthropomorphic entity" (Mormon Doctrine, p.250); "as the Prophet [Joseph Smith] also taught,'there is a God above the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'" (Mormon Doctrine, p.322, 1966).
Joseph Fielding Smith stated: "God is an exalted man...our Father in Heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man...The Prophet [Joseph Smith] taught that our Father had a Father and so on...promises are made to us that we may become like him" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1, p.10-12).
Mormon leaders have continued to teach this doctrine, as is evident by a few quotes from recent President and Prophet Spencer W. Kimball in official LDS periodicals:
"Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose that 225,000 of you may become gods" (from a speech published in The Ensign, November 1975, 1980).
"In each of us is the potentiality to become a God" (Tribune, Oct. 7, 1974).
"Man can transform himself, but he has in him the seeds of Godhood that can grow. He can lift himself by his very bootstraps" (Tribune, Sept. 18, 1974).
"In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the [LDS] Church proclaims the eternal truth:'As man is God once was; as God is, man may be'" (James Talmage in The Articles of Faith, a widely circulated LDS doctrinal book).
Current President and Prophet Gordon Hinkley admits, albeit reluctantly, in recent interviews to believing this doctrine (San Francisco Chronicle, Sunday, 4/13/97, page 3/Z13; Time magazine August 4, 1997):
"President Gordon Hinckley says the concept of God having been a man is not stressed any longer, but he [Hinckley] does believe that human beings can become gods in the afterlife" (Richard Ostling, interviewer for Time magazine).
Hinckley states: "Well, they [men] can achieve to a godly status, yes, of course they can, eternal progression. We believe in the progression of the human soul. Ours is a forward-looking religion. It's an upward-looking religion" (Public Broadcasting System; transcript dated July 18, 1997).
Attempts to tone down the importance of this doctrine are reflected in changes made to the recent edition of the LDS book Gospel Principles, which is used to teach new members the doctrines of their church. Here is one example:
The 1978 edition reads: "We can become Gods like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation" (Gospel Principles, p.290, 1978);
but the 1997 edition reads: "We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation" (Gospel Principles, p.302, 1997).
For anyone to claim this is Christian well then so are Muslims Hindus and Buddhists.
References: Mormon vs Biblical Teachings about God
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/d...
Get the truth your eternal destination is in the balance.
Truth Matters Mormons are not Christians
Faith matters more than your supposed truth that you pretend to comprehend liar.
Father overtime

Longmont, CO

#20450 Feb 20, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Your ignorance in the teaching of the Trinity does help you. There is nothing my God can't do, why is your God limited?
So your god can lie to you aye Dana?
lamer

Hopkins, MN

#20451 Feb 20, 2013
So what i got out of this thread seems to be that the Mormons consider themselves to be christians yet, everyone disagrees with them.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#20452 Feb 20, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I've told you time and time again, I don't play "shoulda, coulda, woulda." Smith is no Jesus Christ or even a Peter.
Your a coward lol.
Jews posing as Anti Christians attacked Christians 2000 years ago.
Christians posing as anti-Mormons attack Mormons 2000 years later.
You're a self proclaimed anti-Mormon. You give talks and speeches on anti-Mormonism. Yet you won't impart your professional anti-religious knowledge to help me understand how other professional anti-religious types would have attacked a religious sect they thought false and evil 2000 years ago?
lol...you're a fricking coward and a fraud at being a anti-religious fanatic lol.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#20453 Feb 20, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll take a stab at this. Abraham had met him before, read Chapter 12, and 17. That is how he know who it was. As for the rest of your question, is anything impossible for God? Jesus has always been God.
You know what, sometime the idiot comes out in you like a pimple on a nose lol. Why don't you go back and read Egypt's statement that I responded to? See, if you read what Egypt said to the other poster and read what the other poster wrote to prompt Egypt to write what he did, than and only than will you have comprehension of my post to Egypt.
Please fricking read! Sheesh....

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#20454 Feb 20, 2013
concerned in Egypt wrote:
<quoted text>
This is one case in which I will answer your question with a question that to which I am not to found of doing.
HOW COULD Abraham recongnize somebody he had never seen before right of the Bat??
When you answer that question you will have the answer to your question.
REMEMBER he had never seen Jesus before.
REMEMBER even by LDS teachings Jesus did not dwell in the flesh or have flesh till the Incarnation when his flesh was born to Mary.
YOU have not thought this through take some time.
You dodged the question and not well. But I understand why you dodged it :)
You stated the following...
"These are excellent points you bring up here.
You are welcome to your LDS view on them.
But here is the kicker.
For over 2000 years all Christians have believed that Jesus did as he saw the father do with his spiritual eyes. Even the LDS teach Jesus did not have bodily form in heaven he got his body when he came to earth.
Thus even by LDS teaching Jesus never had seen God the father with eyes of flesh before his incarnation and even then not until he ascended.
So even by your own teachings the ONLY way Jesus could do what the Father was doing was by spiritual means. Thus your conclusion that God the Father was flesh is illogical and erroneous."

Your first error is the LDS have always taught that even as spirits, we all had the same shape and form as our physical bodies encompass. That our spirits had a trunk, head, arms and legs and genitalia but that the spirit was of a purer material then what the body is made of.
So the premise of your whole argument is incorrect and wrong because you stated it on information that was incorrect and wrong.
The LDS believe God the Father and God the mother came here from another time and space in bodies of flesh and bone, to create all that exists because it was their time to be Gods of their own time and space and worlds they would create.
And that is how the LDS believe that Jesus saw what the Father did and knew what to do besides the fact that he learned all he knew how to do from the Father by word and deed.
So by the LDS teachings, to them it is not illogical and erroneous to believe they are and can be as their creator in word and deed and substance and shape and form.
You have to base your argument/debate on how the LDS actually believe and teach to have a good argumant/debate, just saying :)

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20455 Feb 20, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would it say "not necessarily represent the position of the... Deseret Book Company" If it wasn't published by Deseret?
... because it was not authorized for publication. That's the point I have been trying to tell you also.

you guys search documents that are not "authorized" by the Church... that means they are opinion material at that point... not Church material.
Needless

Morristown, TN

#20456 Feb 20, 2013
These comments are like people arguing over unicorn horns.

The unicorn is made up, but they still argue about the horns.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20457 Feb 20, 2013
Father overtime wrote:
<quoted text>
So your god can lie to you aye Dana?
What lie? Where? The only god that I have found lying is the one the Mormons follow.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20458 Feb 20, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
... because it was not authorized for publication. That's the point I have been trying to tell you also.
you guys search documents that are not "authorized" by the Church... that means they are opinion material at that point... not Church material.
That's is just silly, Dell books don't have to put disclaimers for Random House. Deseret was mentioned because Deseret was the publisher.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20459 Feb 20, 2013
Needless wrote:
These comments are like people arguing over unicorn horns.
The unicorn is made up, but they still argue about the horns.
No one is forcing you to be here.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20460 Feb 20, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Your a coward lol.
Jews posing as Anti Christians attacked Christians 2000 years ago.
Christians posing as anti-Mormons attack Mormons 2000 years later.
You're a self proclaimed anti-Mormon. You give talks and speeches on anti-Mormonism. Yet you won't impart your professional anti-religious knowledge to help me understand how other professional anti-religious types would have attacked a religious sect they thought false and evil 2000 years ago?
lol...you're a fricking coward and a fraud at being a anti-religious fanatic lol.
Go whine somewhere else, I don't care.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20461 Feb 20, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You know what, sometime the idiot comes out in you like a pimple on a nose lol. Why don't you go back and read Egypt's statement that I responded to? See, if you read what Egypt said to the other poster and read what the other poster wrote to prompt Egypt to write what he did, than and only than will you have comprehension of my post to Egypt.
Please fricking read! Sheesh....
If your god has limits, that is your problem. The God that can create heaven and the earth can certainly sit down and have lunch with Abraham. How "fricking" pathetic are you? LOL!!!

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20462 Feb 20, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
... because it was not authorized for publication. That's the point I have been trying to tell you also.
you guys search documents that are not "authorized" by the Church... that means they are opinion material at that point... not Church material.
So, you think that church leaders put out books concerning church doctrine that are lies concerning the teachings of the LDS church? You think the leaders of the LDS church don't know the teachings of the church? The people the members have pick to represent them don't know what they are representing?
Escape clauses to be able to create deniability because every time the LDS church becomes embarrassed they change what they believe, doesn't mean they don't represent LDS teachings.
The Mormon church reminds me of the classic book "1984":

One day it's:
"Oceania was at war with Eurasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia."
The next day it's:
"Oceania was at war with Eastasia: therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia."

That is what Mormonism does, whether it's on the subject of African Americans, or even Cola's. Right now you see the LDS church struggling with the issue of homosexuality. It received a public relations nightmare over Prop 8 in California, and back pedaling fast because it has cost them members.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20463 Feb 20, 2013
concerned in Egypt wrote:
<quoted text>
First you said because Jesus saw God the Father in the Flesh you concluded that God the Father had Flesh.
I prove he did see God in the Flesh even with LDS teachings and now again you post this merry Go round post that ignores you fundamental error in logic.
Ro 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
Ro 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Ro 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Ro 1:22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
You have become a Fool
Ohh, I'm sorry about that. This all makes sense now. I see why you were responding the way you did. My point and case were not that Jesus saw God hence God has flesh. My point was that Jesus Christ said that he has done nothing except he has seen the father do it. In other words, if Christ came to have a body, God must have done that at some time too.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

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