Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32007 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19391 Dec 15, 2012
And baptism for the dead is certainly done for the remission of their sins. Come to thing of it, you're the one who doesn't know what he is talking about.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19392 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't shown anything from scripture, Jewish or otherwise, and again, Jesus said it wasn't so. Jesus outranks any Prophet of the Old Testament in the subject of anything concerning his Gospel. The Old Testament clearly taught that working on Sunday was a death sentence. Yet Jesus clearly did too, collected food in the fields, and that was in scripture, unlike your claim of eternal marriage. When it comes to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Jesus is first, the Old Testament is second, and no mention whatsoever in either isn't even a factor.
You haven't taken any actual time to understand that short conversation that took place between Jesus and the Sadducee's. You read it to support your opinion that there is no such thing as eternal marriage to you.
Unfortunately, by your opinion that there isn't any such thing as eternal marriage, you have set forth a limitation by opinion of what is eternal and what isn't according to your logic. You have put into question by your logic that blessings aren't eternal. You have set forth by your logic cursings aren't eternal. Your personal interpretation of what is eternal and what isn't can put everything into doubt as to what is eternal and what isn't by your logic. Are you ready to go there?
Remember the verse, what God has put together, let no man separate?
What do you think that speaks of? Remember this important thing about that statement. It doesn't say what man has put together, let no man separate. See the difference?
I took the following from a non-Mormon religious site discussing marriage and divorce...
"In the New Testament, Jesus confirmed the permanence of marriage, directly quoting the Genesis account. Notice:“And He answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”(Matt. 19:4-5).
While Christ was obviously quoting Genesis 2, He continued by adding this in verse 6:“Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”
Now what do you think God could put together by his power that humans have been warned not to separate? The obvious answer is marriage between a man and woman, that have been married by the power of God that a person appointed by the Lord has. Men in general, religious or not, cannot prove they have the power of God to marry people. They can claim to have that power but can't prove it.
Following this? Who then separates a man and woman from marriage, God or humans? Humans of course. And neither did God ever state death separated a man and woman who were married by the power of God.
Now two people not married by the power of God, they are subjected to limitations concerning their marriage in this life. At death or by divorce they will and can be separated.
Now if you wish to ignore this difference of people being married by the power of God and people being married by the power of mankind, I'll expect it from you.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19393 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
And the Jesus of the New Testament said there wasn't going to be any eternal marriage. The Old Testament is silent altogether on the issue. You have nothing that is considered scripture to support it.
Which old testament do you refer to? The one put together by narrow minded Christian men 1800 years ago, claiming celibacy not marriage got one to heaven? Are you referring to those early fathers that almost put the church of Rome to ruin because they were so anti-marriage? Did you know about that? It has a connection to the importance of marriage God spoke of that the early Christian fathers in Rome rejected and wouldn't read about to the few converts they had.
To be a priest in that early church, you had to be A. celibate from childhood or B. converted to celibacy for life. They had no married priests for centuries. The early church was made up of mostly single/celibate parishioners, did you know that? Did you know that families in church didn't happen in those very early times? Did you know that only after priests/clergy and single celibate parishioners began to die off and the church membership shrank and shrank that they began to allow married couples into the church?
The very early church of Rome was anti-marriage! Please don't believe me! Please Google the web for this information and learn from sources you'll find.
You missed the following from a book copied by Jews who's original source is how old?
The pre-Christian book of Enoch says that the righteous after the resurrection shall live so long that they shall beget thousands. The received doctrine is laid down by Rabbi Saadia, who says,'As the son of the widow of Sarepton, and the son of the Shunamite, ate and drank, and doubtless married wives, so shall it be in the resurrection'; and by Maimonides, who says,'Men after the resurrection will use meat and drink, and will beget children, because since the Wise Architect makes nothing in vain, it follows of necessity that the members of the body are not useless, but fulfill their functions.' The point raised by the Sadducees was often debated by the Jewish doctors, who decided that 'a woman who married two husbands in this world is restored to the first in the next.'" (Dummelow, p. 698.)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19394 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
By immersion only? No. That wouldn't be a sin. But even if it were, if they have put their faith in the grace of Jesus Christ, he paid for that sin.
You didn't answer the question.
God gave commandments to be obeyed when he walked this earth.
God said to do as he did.
God subjected himself to be immersed in water by John the Baptist that had the power of God to baptise converts.
If one knows the commandments of God and knows God had himself baptised by immersion, if one knows God commanded, COMMANDED US to do as he did, if they reject baptism by immersion as he did it, are they committing a sin or not by refusing to obey his command to do as he did?
Yes or no?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19395 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
And baptism for the dead is certainly done for the remission of their sins. Come to thing of it, you're the one who doesn't know what he is talking about.
You're getting way out there. I never said that baptism for the dead was done for the remission of sins for an individual so they were forgiven their sins. I NEVER stated any such thing. But you did, not I, understand the twist you did?
This is why I stated to you, suggested to you to understand a doctrine before you attack it.
A baptism for the dead done in the temples gives no spirit forgiveness of their sins. The Mormon doctrine teaches baptism for the dead "affords" departed spirits forgiveness IF they accept the proxy baptism done for them because for whatever reason they didn't do it while living. Understand the difference between what you say the doctrine means and what it actually means?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19396 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
By immersion only? No. That wouldn't be a sin. But even if it were, if they have put their faith in the grace of Jesus Christ, he paid for that sin.
So if anyone rejecting baptism by immersion is forgiven the moment they put their faith in Jesus, then we can use your belief for murders like Hitler and Stalin, the horrendous acts of the Nazi soldiers against the Jews, Judas's betrayal and suicide, we can use your belief for any sin any one commits if afterwards they put their faith in the grace of Jesus now or in the next life! Wow, I haven't read that in the NT before. Interesting opinion I guess.

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19397 Dec 15, 2012
the rest of us wrote:
<quoted text>
No numbnuts, nobody cares to read your fart in a windstorm comments on here. Just like in your real life, nobody listens to you on topix either. Go get some help with your hate and anger before you physically harm someone.
Your pathetic comments are all like this one - nothing but hatred, hot air, saying nothing at all, but so intimidated and so jealous of those who do have something to say, that you just can't stop making a fool of yourself.
I feel sorry for you. You know I'm right and you just can't think of anything to say to prove me wrong. BooHoo...

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19398 Dec 15, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
We believe that the Bible contains the word of God and Jesus Christ is our Savior. How is that Satanic?
I know that this is how you bait people, draw them in with lies, and just keep lying as long as possible.
Move along...

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19399 Dec 16, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
References for Christ teaching people in spirit prison:
OK, you asked for it. Them's fightin words:
Mormons Baptize Notorious Killers
Mass murderers and serial killers are among the millions of deceased who have been posthumously baptized in temples owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS).
These names include the modern-day dictators and mass murderers—Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, and Mao Zedong. Other multiple murderers have been posthumously baptized in Mormon temples, like prolific serial killer, Ted Bundy.
…in an interview he gave just hours before his execution, recorded on video and titled Fatal Addiction, Bundy had difficulty coming to terms with his murderous history and impending execution. Bundy was a cold-blooded killer who expressed no feelings of remorse for his crimes.
While they were alive, serial killers, such as Ted Bundy, lived to destroy lives. Evidently, some Mormons think that after death and Mormon temple rituals—as if by some magical transformation—depraved killers, like Bundy, can potentially embrace and perpetually live in the presence of God.
…baptizing deceased murderers on a routine basis downplays the seriousness of murder, cheapens life, and creates the illusion that even the worst criminals can easily be absolved of the consequences of their crimes against humanity. Most of the names of the 19 Arab suicide terrorists, who were intent on destroying American symbols and inflicting mass casualties on 9/11, were submitted into the LDS
Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer (1960-1994) was a depraved serial killer and sex offender from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, who confessed to the murders of 17 men and boys from 1978-1991.
Dahmer is infamous for the grisly way he killed his victims. His gruesome methods of murder included drugging, rape, torture, strangulation, bludgeoning, stabbing, mutilation, necrophilia, dismemberment, and cannibalism. Dahmer was...convicted and sentenced to fifteen consecutive life terms, for a total of 957 years in prison.
It is not known if Mormons have performed proxy temple rituals on Jeffrey Dahmer’s behalf.
He is listed in LDS temple files, but details of any LDS temple ordinances that may be attached to his entry are flagged as not available.
Edward Theodore Gein (1906-1984)
was a deranged murderer and grave robber from Vernon County, Wisconsin. America has never seen his equal in the field of mental aberration, which included necrophilia, cannibalism, and death fetishism, along with murder and grave robbing.
While Gein was only convicted of two murders, the actual number is believed to be much higher.
Edward Theodore Gein was posthumously baptized on April 10, 2009 in the Palmyra New York (LDS) Temple.
He was confirmed in the Medford Oregon (LDS) Temple on April 17, 2009.
Additional proxy rites were performed for Gein in the Newport Beach California (LDS) Temple in May 2009. Ed Gein was known as “The Butcher of Plainfield.” He is listed by that name on notes attached to his LDS record that includes the details of his temple ordinances.
(next post)

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19400 Dec 16, 2012
Timothy James McVeigh (1968-2001)
McVeigh was convicted and sentenced to death by a Denver jury for the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, which was largely demolished by the explosion of a homemade truck bomb.
killed 168 people—including 19 children —and injured hundreds more.
McVeigh took pride in being the man responsible for the bombing. He showed no remorse for the 168 deaths, and he referred to the 19 children he murdered as “collateral damage.” McVeigh was executed by lethal injection
On September 26, 2008, Timothy McVeigh was posthumously baptized and confirmed in the Twin Falls Idaho (LDS) Temple.
On October 9, 2008, in the same LDS temple, an initiatory rite was performed on his behalf, followed by an endowment ceremony the next day.
The LDS Church claims to be the one and only divinely mandated church on Earth—a wholesome, family-oriented religion. Yet, the ghoulish Mormon practice of baptizing mass murderers and psycho killers presents an ungodly and debased standard. When Mormons think they have the power to offer salvation to mass murderers and serial killers, essentially, they are attempting to assign redemption to a dark and unholy place.
(next post)

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19401 Dec 16, 2012

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19402 Dec 16, 2012
Mark William Hofmann is an American counterfeiter, forger and convicted murderer.
Hofmann is especially noted for his creation of documents related to the history of the Latter Day Saint movement
Hofmann was reared in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) by two devoutly religious parents
Perhaps the most notorious of Hofmann's LDS forgeries, the Salamander letter, appeared in 1984. Supposedly written by Martin Harris to William Wines Phelps, the letter presented a version of the recovery of the gold plates that contrasted markedly with the church-sanctioned version of events. Not only did the forgery intimate that Joseph Smith had been practicing "money digging" through magical practices, but it also replaced the angel that Smith said had appeared to him with a white salamander.
Hofmann …pled guilty to two counts of second-degree murder and two counts of theft by deception.
the parole board, impressed by Hofmann's "callous disregard for human life," decided that he would indeed serve his "natural life in prison." the Hofmann forgeries could only have been perpetrated "in connection with the curious mixture of paranoia and obsessiveness with which Mormons approach church history."
(next post)

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19403 Dec 16, 2012

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19404 Dec 16, 2012
Polygamy
…the church's 1890 reversal of its policy on polygamy was done for political, not divine, reasons, citing the fact that it happened in the midst of a lengthy battle with the federal government over property seizures and statehood.
…the fact that soon after the church received the revelation that polygamy was prohibited, Utah again applied for statehood, and this time the federal government did not object to starting the statehood process.
…soon after the church suspended the practice of polygamy, the federal government reduced its legal efforts to seize church property. Mormons Ron Wood and Linda Thatcher do not dispute that the change was a direct result of federal intervention and respond that the church was left with no choice. The 1887 Edmunds–Tucker Act was crippling the church and "something dramatic had to be done to reverse [the] trend." After the church appealed its case to the U.S. Supreme Court and lost, church president Wilford Woodruff issued the Manifesto. Woodruff noted in his journal that he was "acting for the temporal salvation of the Church".
…early church leaders established the practice of polygamy in order to justify behavior that would otherwise be regarded as immoral.…criticize Joseph Smith for marrying at least 32 women during his lifetime, including several under the age of 16, a fact acknowledged by Mormon historian Todd Compton. Compton also acknowledges that Smith entered into polyandrous marriages (that is, he married women who were already married to other men) and that he warned some potential spouses of eternal damnation if they did not consent to be his wife, and furthermore that, in at least two cases, he married orphan girls that had come to live at his home
(next post)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19405 Dec 16, 2012
Protester wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, you asked for it. Them's fightin words:
Mormons Baptize Notorious Killers
Jesus was ready to forgive killers and the like, what's the difference? Jesus was ready to forgive those that shredded his flesh for punishment. He was ready to forgive those that had direct and indirect connection to his death and the deaths of two thieves.
What's the difference if Jesus was ready to forgive the sinner or that Mormons think sinners can have a chance if they haven't heard the gospel? Same train of thinking.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19406 Dec 16, 2012
Reasons why Enoch isn't in the Bible(From a pro Enoch web site):
OK! OK! So why is it not in the Bible?

Uncertain as well as multiple authorship, and several slightly varying texts are among the main reasons cited for Enoch not "making it" into the generally recognized canon. In truth, the spiritual agenda(s) of the early Roman Church is most likely the ultimate reason however, and we will examine this agenda here as well. Let's begin with the first two though, before moving to the more incredulous, but quite valid "conspiracy theories."

"The Book of Enoch, like the book of Daniel, was originally written in Aramaic, and partly in Hebrew (1)." While there may have been Hebrew translations during the centuries B.C.(which early church leaders may or may not have had access to), today only the Ethiopic manuscripts exist, as well as some incomplete Greek and Latin translations, plus one Aramaic fragment from the Dead Sea Scrolls. By the time of Jesus' birth, "average" Jews were reading mainly the Greek Septuagint translation of their own Torah (completed 200 B.C.), as a result of their years of foreign captivity and then-current Roman occupation. To coin the vernacular, they had been assimilated. So unless an authentic Aramaic version appears miraculously today, there will never be any completely indisputable way to argue for a modern "canonization" of 1 Enoch, as the originals are lost, probably forever.

The honest problem facing the infant Roman Church of 390 A.D., when first assembling today's Bible, was that the existing copies of 1 Enoch varied, albeit in minor ways. "Unlike the (rest of the) Bible which was carefully copied and checked for errors by Jewish and Christian scribes throughout its history, The Book of Enoch is available in a number of ancient manuscripts that differ slightly from one another... and many errors have crept in... There is no way of knowing which versions are (exactly faithful to) the original and which are the errors. While this doesn't change its stories in any substantial manner, it does make it impossible to anchor beliefs or arguments on any given section...(4)."

Another less important but quite "legitimate" issue is that 1 Enoch is actually a collection of at least four different "books," possibly written by various authors over many centuries, and possibly not by the true Enoch of Genesis 5.

Even with all of this said, there is still no "clean" explanation for Enoch's 1000-year disappearance from even popular literature though.

http://www.sherryshriner.com/church-coverup.h...

Also the fact that it is believed to have been written around 200 B.C. proves it wasn't even written by Enoch.

You explain why even the Jews today don't have it in their scriptures? You can't blame the Catholic church for that.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19407 Dec 16, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't answer the question as I asked it. So I'll rephrase it.
Jesus said to do as he did. Jesus suffered himself to baptism by immersion in water.
In your opinion of what you know of the NT, is a person that knows the gospel of Jesus, are they or are they not committing a sin by choosing not to be baptised by immersion as Jesus did it and told us, commanded us, to do as he did?
Jesus told us to be baptize. He never said it had to be by immersion. But whether he did or didn't isn't the issue. If we have put our faith in his sacrifice for sin, we are covered by that sacrifice. That is grace. Unearned merit or favor. Unearned, get it?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19408 Dec 16, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You do realize that the Jesus/God of the NT was the same Jesus/God of the OT? Take away the name Jesus if you wish. The fact remains the same. The God of the NT is the same God of the OT.
All Christian beliefs were predicated on former beliefs established by Moses ans the OT prophets coming after Moses. All beliefs given to Moses and the prophets following him were to replace the laws lost during the Israelites captivity prior to Moses being born that were held from Adam to Noah to Abraham.
Or do you think the same gospel was given exactly in the same context from Adam to Jesus?
Jesus was raised a Jew. he was out teaching/correcting the laws of Moses that had been added to and subtracted from by the priests since sometime after Moses's death. He found what they taught perverse and incorrect from what had once been taught/said.
So when you state you'll stick to Jesus, unknowingly your stating you'll stick to Jewish teachings Christ gave from Adam to himself.
Yet when it comes to eternal marriage, you only find his statements clearly saying there was to be none, in the Old or New Testament. Dance around all you want to justify it, but it isn't taught in the Bible, period. And Jesus changed several of the rules while he was here. He was bringing them the Gospel of grace, over the law.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19409 Dec 16, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You're getting way out there. I never said that baptism for the dead was done for the remission of sins for an individual so they were forgiven their sins. I NEVER stated any such thing. But you did, not I, understand the twist you did?
This is why I stated to you, suggested to you to understand a doctrine before you attack it.
A baptism for the dead done in the temples gives no spirit forgiveness of their sins. The Mormon doctrine teaches baptism for the dead "affords" departed spirits forgiveness IF they accept the proxy baptism done for them because for whatever reason they didn't do it while living. Understand the difference between what you say the doctrine means and what it actually means?
Just a lot of double talk and "who shot John". Ask a Mormon if they do temple work for the dead so the dead gets a chance for the remission of their sins and they will tell you "yes" every time. Back to straining on gnats again.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19410 Dec 16, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
So if anyone rejecting baptism by immersion is forgiven the moment they put their faith in Jesus, then we can use your belief for murders like Hitler and Stalin, the horrendous acts of the Nazi soldiers against the Jews, Judas's betrayal and suicide, we can use your belief for any sin any one commits if afterwards they put their faith in the grace of Jesus now or in the next life! Wow, I haven't read that in the NT before. Interesting opinion I guess.
Show me evidence Hitler and Stalin ever excepted Christ, and we'll discuss it. I don't know why you haven't heard about salvation by the grace of Jesus Christ before, because I know I have certainly posted the verses many times. Are you having reading difficulties? Apparently you don't want to trust the word of God. I don't have problem. And as the Mormon church has done the temple work for Hitler, even Mormonism teaches that Hitler get a free ride for his crimes by just saying, "yeah, I take it." Is that better in your eyes?

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