Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

[Cary L Nickel]

No Surprise wrote:

<quoted text>
Pattern matching, no wonder you let it out in these threads as a release from such a boring job.
1) The Catholic church did as you stated for who knows how long, breaking the law in spite of laws against what was being done. And they finally got busted big time. The LDS church in the last century has been about following the laws of the land, not breaking them. So the likely hood this church would do something to cause it's own demise by breaking laws it'd be found guilty of breaking is unlikely.
2) You speak of a couple wires to the genitals? they use to use electroshock therapy to help a person believe they weren't attracted to the same sex! Wires to the nuts would have been an option of relief to having your brain fried I would think.
Next, I don't agree with conversion therapy where aids are used to promote physical/mental pain and anguish. And anyone that's an adult that would subject themselves to such practices should really have their head examined.
See, you're missing an important element to this conversation. What's done to a minor who is sent by parents for conversion therapy is wrong. It's wrong because the parents want the conversion therapy and not necessarily the minor.
But what you're missing is most patients that go to these clinics, they are doing it of their own free will for whatever their reason is. Get it? The adults go because they want to change their sexual orientation for some purpose, rational or irrational.
So you can speak of what's done to minors as being wrong and I agree. But you can't speak for the adults that walk into these clinics and understanding what will take place, willingly subject themselves to that ordeal.

And considering "Haw Haw"s conclusions from pattern matching, as evidenced from the result posted on this forum, what I've learned about the process is that it's utter BS. LOL!

Notice how neither of the prominent anti-LDS individuals disavowed the Rev. Robert Jeffres? They chose to divert instead? That's telling.

[Cary L Nickel]

NoMo wrote:

<quoted text>
Why do u support a religious cult that systematically causes harm to your "homosexual friends? It's a question u seem to avoid at all costs.
Oh...
And how do u reconcile this in ur head?

Since your assertions are based upon your lies, there is nothing for anyone to "avoid" or "reconcile".

[Cary L Nickel]

No Surprise wrote:

<quoted text>
Pattern matching, no wonder you let it out in these threads as a release from such a boring job.
1) The Catholic church did as you stated for who knows how long, breaking the law in spite of laws against what was being done. And they finally got busted big time. The LDS church in the last century has been about following the laws of the land, not breaking them. So the likely hood this church would do something to cause it's own demise by breaking laws it'd be found guilty of breaking is unlikely.
2) You speak of a couple wires to the genitals? they use to use electroshock therapy to help a person believe they weren't attracted to the same sex! Wires to the nuts would have been an option of relief to having your brain fried I would think.
Next, I don't agree with conversion therapy where aids are used to promote physical/mental pain and anguish. And anyone that's an adult that would subject themselves to such practices should really have their head examined.
See, you're missing an important element to this conversation. What's done to a minor who is sent by parents for conversion therapy is wrong. It's wrong because the parents want the conversion therapy and not necessarily the minor.
But what you're missing is most patients that go to these clinics, they are doing it of their own free will for whatever their reason is. Get it? The adults go because they want to change their sexual orientation for some purpose, rational or irrational.
So you can speak of what's done to minors as being wrong and I agree. But you can't speak for the adults that walk into these clinics and understanding what will take place, willingly subject themselves to that ordeal.

Just another fine example of how religious bigots such as Haw Haw and NoMo pick and choose their arguments based upon their opinion of a particular church.

You find them supporting things such as the murder of unborn children in the womb at the behest of adults, or the right of adults to commit assisted suicide over "quality of life" issues, but when the same adult makes a choice to enter into the therapy of his or her choosing, Haw Haw and NoMo suddenly are outraged because they don't agree with the therapy, or the reasons the therapy exist.

The fact is, not everyone believes that homosexuality is a trait people are born with. Obviously, some believe that their homosexuality is a condition, deserving of treatment, and they seek out that treatment.

What business is it of some to deny an individual the treatment they choose?

Well, I can easily answer that: Those predisposed to "leftist" thinking must necessarily make choices for others based upon their own limited world view. They cannot allow people the liberty to make their own decisions when those decisions don't "fit in". And when they can falsely pin those decisions upon some organization they already have a beef with, all the better.

I find it humorous that both Haw Haw's and NoMo's behavior on this forum seems to border upon obsession, itself a treatable condition.

[not ashamed]

NoMo wrote:

<quoted text>
Why do u support a religious cult that systematically causes harm to your "homosexual friends? It's a question u seem to avoid at all costs.
Oh...
And how do u reconcile this in ur head?

I have never avoided the question, and I have nothing to reconcile. I have told you numerous times my thoughts and feelings on the subject. Problem is you don't listen and I get tired of beating a dead horse. There is no point in answering the question yet again. You only hear what you want to hear or twist what I say to make it what you want it to be.
I support my faith. I support gay rights. Its really very simple.

[Dana Robertson]

Cary L Nickel wrote:

<quoted text>
And considering "Haw Haw"s conclusions from pattern matching, as evidenced from the result posted on this forum, what I've learned about the process is that it's utter BS. LOL!
Notice how neither of the prominent anti-LDS individuals disavowed the Rev. Robert Jeffres? They chose to divert instead? That's telling.

I disavow him. He's a nut case. But this is a LDS forum.

[Dana Robertson]

No Surprise wrote:

<quoted text>
Pattern matching, no wonder you let it out in these threads as a release from such a boring job.
1) The Catholic church did as you stated for who knows how long, breaking the law in spite of laws against what was being done. And they finally got busted big time. The LDS church in the last century has been about following the laws of the land, not breaking them. So the likely hood this church would do something to cause it's own demise by breaking laws it'd be found guilty of breaking is unlikely.
2) You speak of a couple wires to the genitals? they use to use electroshock therapy to help a person believe they weren't attracted to the same sex! Wires to the nuts would have been an option of relief to having your brain fried I would think.
Next, I don't agree with conversion therapy where aids are used to promote physical/mental pain and anguish. And anyone that's an adult that would subject themselves to such practices should really have their head examined.
See, you're missing an important element to this conversation. What's done to a minor who is sent by parents for conversion therapy is wrong. It's wrong because the parents want the conversion therapy and not necessarily the minor.
But what you're missing is most patients that go to these clinics, they are doing it of their own free will for whatever their reason is. Get it? The adults go because they want to change their sexual orientation for some purpose, rational or irrational.
So you can speak of what's done to minors as being wrong and I agree. But you can't speak for the adults that walk into these clinics and understanding what will take place, willingly subject themselves to that ordeal.

Oh, now you're changing your opinion? You have certainly in the past advocated the rights of parents to subject their children to this, and said it was for their own good.

And you're right. If an adult gay person wants to subject themselves to this, they have the right. They are made stupid by the teachings of Mormonism to think it is a rational thing to do, but they have the right. But it won't make a bit of difference. It does show the destructive nature of the teachings of Mormonism. When a cult can make you hate who you are, it has won. But it is still sick.

[Dana Robertson]

No Surprise wrote:

<quoted text>
To your sometimes sick and twisted thinking as manifested itself here, I see why you would find his challenges so fuuny.

It was ignorant, and I doubt it was true. His solution to living a life of total loneliness and without love was to attend your meetings and pay your tithing. That's just f**ked and ignorant. I wish we could check back with him 10 years from now, and see what he will have to say. He is a future Ex-Mormon.

[Dana Robertson]

No Surprise wrote:

<quoted text>

2) You speak of a couple wires to the genitals? they use to use electroshock therapy to help a person believe they weren't attracted to the same sex! Wires to the nuts would have been an option of relief to having your brain fried I would think.

I have to wonder if you do think. Do you even read what you write?

[NoMo]

Dana Robertson wrote:

<quoted text>I have to wonder if you do think. Do you even read what you write?

Maybe he should try both and then decide.

[NoMo]

This is a bfd...heads up u evergreen lizards..they are coming for u too!

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/11/27/1242...

[NoMo]

Dr Oz is doing a show today about this, Dr Drew is doing one tonight...just imagine the day when Evergreen and ur evil quorum are outed for their torture.

[Dana Robertson]

People in Russia are protesting the LDS church: http://nhpr.org/post/russia-pro-putin-youths-...

[Haw Haw]

Dana Robertson wrote:

<quoted text>
I disavow him. He's a nut case. But this is a LDS forum.

So do I. But I believe Terry is a nut case as well, and an LDS one at that, so I don't allow his arrogant a$$ to set the agenda for what I respond to in this forum. And J. is such a stale issue besides - that was during the f'n primaries. But I do agree with J. that the LDS is a cult. Doesn't mean I agree with everything he says (I forget whether he supported Sanitarium or Gangrich), and I'm not going to waste my time with people who want to argue using fallacious reasoning. Terry just wants to pigeonhole people anyway - he learned that well in his cult.

[NoMo]

All your gay problems..when all of everything you Mormons do, allow, ignore, agree with, comes back to bite you on the ass, once again..get ready for more exposure! Hahah

...because if god created gay people..then gay people are in every way equal to you. Here on earth and in your heaven (levels).....gays in the celestial??? It makes your whole purpose false. A great big spirit baby lie. LOL. Idiot homophobic men who think women want to be perpetually pregnant for eternity.

Wake up!! You are in a CULT!

[Bat Foy]

Haw Haw wrote:

<quoted text>So do I. But I believe Terry is a nut case as well, and an LDS one at that, so I don't allow his arrogant a$$ to set the agenda for what I respond to in this forum. And J. is such a stale issue besides - that was during the f'n primaries. But I do agree with J. that the LDS is a cult. Doesn't mean I agree with everything he says (I forget whether he supported Sanitarium or Gangrich), and I'm not going to waste my time with people who want to argue using fallacious reasoning. Terry just wants to pigeonhole people anyway - he learned that well in his cult.

While I am not LDS and I do not fully understand the point of The Book of Mormon. To say it is a cult or they're unchristian is pretty judgmental. The criteria for salvation is very easy to figure out. Believe and be saved, love your neighbor as yourself, and love The Lord God with all your heart soul mind and strength. If Mormons wish to think some lost 13th tribe came to America but they hold to the teaching of Christ who cares? The bible doesn't even directly speak out against having more than one wife. Paul made the suggestion to not marry or to only have one wife so you have more time to devote to the church.

[NoMo]

Bat Foy wrote:

<quoted text>
While I am not LDS and I do not fully understand the point of The Book of Mormon. To say it is a cult or they're unchristian is pretty judgmental. The criteria for salvation is very easy to figure out. Believe and be saved, love your neighbor as yourself, and love The Lord God with all your heart soul mind and strength. If Mormons wish to think some lost 13th tribe came to America but they hold to the teaching of Christ who cares? The bible doesn't even directly speak out against having more than one wife. Paul made the suggestion to not marry or to only have one wife so you have more time to devote to the church.

Oh..u support warren jeffs?

[Cary L Nickel]

NoMo wrote:

All your gay problems..when all of everything you Mormons do, allow, ignore, agree with, comes back to bite you on the ass, once again..get ready for more exposure! Hahah
...because if god created gay people..then gay people are in every way equal to you. Here on earth and in your heaven (levels).....gays in the celestial??? It makes your whole purpose false. A great big spirit baby lie. LOL. Idiot homophobic men who think women want to be perpetually pregnant for eternity.
Wake up!! You are in a CULT!

God did not, and does not, "create gay people". Never has, and never will.

Contrary to your assertion, there is no "gay problem" within the Church. It's really very straightforward: God created man and woman for distinctly identified, specific purposes, as clearly stated in the Holy Bible. If one does not support that simple fact, then one does not believe in the Holy Bible.

Being "gay" is a a lifestyle choice that people make for themselves, and I support the right of adults to make such choices, for themselves, and live with whatever consequences result. I also support the right of adults to seek therapy, for themselves, if they feel they must, for whatever reason they see fit. I also support the right of parents, who are ultimately responsible for their children's actions as children, to choose whatever lawful therapy they deem necessary for their children. Parents must then also live with the consequences of their choices.

[Cary L Nickel]

Haw Haw wrote:

<quoted text>
So do I. But I believe Terry is a nut case as well, and an LDS one at that, so I don't allow his arrogant a$$ to set the agenda for what I respond to in this forum. And J. is such a stale issue besides - that was during the f'n primaries. But I do agree with J. that the LDS is a cult. Doesn't mean I agree with everything he says (I forget whether he supported Sanitarium or Gangrich), and I'm not going to waste my time with people who want to argue using fallacious reasoning. Terry just wants to pigeonhole people anyway - he learned that well in his cult.

Admitting that you support the Rev. Jeffress is a bold move! A WRONG move, but a bold one nonetheless. It's good to see that there are a few folks on the left who still have a spine..even if they use it to stand tall in support of fools.

Personally, I disavow Jeffress as well.

And who's this "Terry" you keep talking about? Relative of yours?

[not ashamed]

NoMo wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh..u support warren jeffs?

No where in his post did he say he supports Warren Jeffs. Just another example of how you take what someone says and change it to fit your own agenda. You mention others making assumptions all the time. Yet this is a prime example of how you take what someone says and assume they mean something else.
He never said he supported polygamy, only said that to his knowledge he has never seen it written as a sin.
You twist that to mean he supports someone as vile as Jeffs. You are no better than the very people you claim to be fighting against.

[not ashamed]

Cary L Nickel wrote:

<quoted text>
God did not, and does not, "create gay people". Never has, and never will.
Contrary to your assertion, there is no "gay problem" within the Church. It's really very straightforward: God created man and woman for distinctly identified, specific purposes, as clearly stated in the Holy Bible. If one does not support that simple fact, then one does not believe in the Holy Bible.
Being "gay" is a a lifestyle choice that people make for themselves, and I support the right of adults to make such choices, for themselves, and live with whatever consequences result. I also support the right of adults to seek therapy, for themselves, if they feel they must, for whatever reason they see fit. I also support the right of parents, who are ultimately responsible for their children's actions as children, to choose whatever lawful therapy they deem necessary for their children. Parents must then also live with the consequences of their choices.

I'm not sure how you can say that if a person does not support the fact that heavenly father never created Gay people, then they can not support the bible.
Have you ever been around a gay person that you have known since childhood? It is obvious in the very early years that their sexual preference is different and they struggle with that for many years.
I do think that many now who claim to be gay do it because it is the popular trend among their peers. I can't tell you how many kids at my daughters school have suddenly become bisexual in high school. It breaks my heart that they consider something that is a real struggle for some as just a social trend. However for those who truly are homosexual, it is sad to watch them struggle with life the way they do.
Heavenly father gives all of us our challenges, maybe this is theirs.
I remember when my boyfriend came out, he was told by our bishop that it was not a sin to be gay, it was a sin to act on it.
I fully believe in the bible and in the church, but I absolutely do not believe that being gay for some is a choice. Why would they choose to live with the hardships they face everyday?