Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32001 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#32681 Feb 18, 2014
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>Wrong? Your church lead a smear to the tune of 30 million dollars and thousands of man hours(unreported, they got fined by the IRS) purposely spreading lies about a minority class and you think as long as they weren't buying votes, it's all cool??? Is this your American way, crazy?
*Smear campaign
EXPERT

Redding, CA

#32682 Feb 18, 2014
NoMo wrote:
*Smear campaign
You gonna be OK?

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#32683 Feb 18, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Since leaving Mormonism I haven't attended a church I couldn't go in and see how their money was spent.
As to what you think the LDS church is doing with theirs, who cares? It's all BS by you trying to protect the perverts.
You are saying as a newbie in a Church any and every Church you have attended since you stopped being a Mormon has let you come in and check out their financial books. hmmm.

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#32684 Feb 18, 2014
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong? Your church lead a smear to the tune of 30 million dollars and thousands of man hours(unreported, they got fined by the IRS) purposely spreading lies about a minority class and you think as long as they weren't buying votes, it's all cool??? Is this your American way, crazy?
Why does this matter? People voted how they felt... they Church and MANY others donated to the campaign to vote no on Prop 8. It's over, it's done... move on.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#32685 Feb 18, 2014
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>Why does this matter? People voted how they felt... they Church and MANY others donated to the campaign to vote no on Prop 8. It's over, it's done... move on.
How would you like your civil rights voted away? Move on? It's moving forward, mouse..no one "donated" as much as your precious church. They reap what they sow.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#32686 Feb 18, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
My question was for Crazy, I don't care what you think, it's all BS.
The only BS is your childish replies. That's why you post childish BS instead of non-childish BS. That and you don't like to be challenged. Simple concept.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#32687 Feb 18, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Good, it was a honest statement, many do question. I don't fear the truth, unlike you.
You fear having your claims challenged. That is your fear.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#32688 Feb 18, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Proving again that you are an idiot who apparently can't read.
Childish, childish, childish. When will it stop?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#32689 Feb 18, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Go get evidence for someone for refuses to except that B.H. Roberts even says Smith got his ideas from The View of the Hebrews? Why? You still deny that even after I have proven it thatin black and white. Get your own god damn evidence. I'm not your fucking dog, assclown.
And apparently you are too ignorant to do a an even simple search at lds.org
Jacob 7:27
27 And I, Jacob, saw that I must soon go down to my grave; wherefore, I said unto my son Enos: Take these plates. And I told him the things which my brother Nephi had commanded me, and he promised obedience unto the commands. And I make an end of my writing upon these plates, which writing has been small; and to the reader I bid farewell, hoping that many of my brethren may read my words. Brethren, ADIEU.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/search...
What a moron.
Okay, I'll be frank here. You're a fricking moron by it's very definition this time.

I never said the word Adieu didn't exist in the BOM oh bright one. Smith could have used a German word if he wanted to. he said he was making a translation. You forget that to claim he made the book up. But if you want to make your claims accurate, you have to stick with what Smith claimed, not what you claim. He made a translation he claimed from a different language. To tough to handle for a reply?
And if word similarity and sentence familiarity equals plagiarism to you, the writers of the first four books in the NT are all liars and frauds according to your logic. Even Jesus according to your logic plagiarized the old testament writers. And the Jews plagiarized the Epic of Gilgamesh.
You can either be intelligent and seek an actual explanation with sources or, continue to do as you do and have your own logic used to prove what you believe is false by your same logic used for Smith.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#32690 Feb 18, 2014
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong? Your church lead a smear to the tune of 30 million dollars and thousands of man hours(unreported, they got fined by the IRS) purposely spreading lies about a minority class and you think as long as they weren't buying votes, it's all cool??? Is this your American way, crazy?
You like to forget a fact so you can do your Mormon rage hate. Californians, long before prop 8 was an idea had been voting no on same sex marriage. Californians consistently voted no on same sex marriage prior to prop 8.
The majority of Californians prior to prop 8 wanted ssm to be kept out. That is California history, factual California history for over 30 years history in that state.
All Mormons did was to stoke what Californians had already been making a decision about all along in a single civilian vote session, no to same sex marriage.
So you're flaming rage hating Mormon comments are nothing but inaccurate really.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#32691 Feb 18, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Go get evidence for someone for refuses to except that B.H. Roberts even says Smith got his ideas from The View of the Hebrews? Why? You still deny that even after I have proven it thatin black and white. Get your own god damn evidence. I'm not your fucking dog, assclown.
And apparently you are too ignorant to do a an even simple search at lds.org
Jacob 7:27
27 And I, Jacob, saw that I must soon go down to my grave; wherefore, I said unto my son Enos: Take these plates. And I told him the things which my brother Nephi had commanded me, and he promised obedience unto the commands. And I make an end of my writing upon these plates, which writing has been small; and to the reader I bid farewell, hoping that many of my brethren may read my words. Brethren, ADIEU.
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/search...
What a moron.
By the way, I said nothing to disagree of where Smith got ideas from when he used English to make an interpretation or write the story.
What I said to your claim that he plagiarized other sources was to show your proof. I can prove where Smith plagiarized from the Bible. I can also show(by your logic) where the writers of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all plagiarized each other for their info and took their ideas from each other. I can show where the word Jesus and heaven and God and Satan and Hell has been (by your logic)plagiarized by modern writers millions of times in there writings from the Bible and (your logic) stole entire chapters and verses from the Bible.
Pretending that Smith wrote the BOM from his imagination, it's very logical that he would have gotten ideas from things he read and saw and heard as is the general pattern for all writers in writing a book. And in getting his ideas, he would have also plagiarized entire or most sentences that one would find in the BOM. And those things being discovered and proved no one would have had an interest in a book shown to be wrote from proved sources.
You claim he plagiarized. I asked for proof. You haven't given any because proof doesn't exist.
Understand?
Proof of Smith plagiarizing other sources doesn't exist. People think they have ideas for where some of Smith's word usage came from and that isn't plagiarizing as far as the definition goes in our time.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#32692 Feb 19, 2014
Livinginthelandofcrazy wrote:
<quoted text>
Personal??? And just how am I being personal??? Because I asked you to "grow up" and for once admit when when you're wrong about something??? What are you 13? You act and talk like a petulant little child. Loser??? Hahahahahaha!!! That's a good one. Hey... just how many Californian's had their vote bought, NoHo?
She did bring up one good point. How did you feel about your state taking away the rights of the early Saints? Something the really happened. Don't you think is was very unAmerican?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#32693 Feb 19, 2014
In the book, Review of Books on the Book of Mormon, vol. 4, 1992, Matthew Roper maintains that some of the nineteenth-century sources we suggested as possible sources for the Book of Mormon are rather weak (see pages 176-192). For many years we have maintained that at the time Joseph Smith "translated" the Book of Mormon there were a number of books that claimed the Indians were the descendants of the ancient Israelites an idea that is strongly set forth in the Book of Mormon. Mr. Roper acknowledged that "The Tanners correctly point out that the Book of Mormon appeared at a time when many people believed that the Indians were descendants of the lost ten tribes. Books by James Adair, Elias Boudinot, Ethan Smith, and others are fairly representative of the early nineteenth-century literature which supported such an idea. The Tanners suggest that the Book of Mormon was just one of many such books (pp. 81-84). While it is true that general similarities or parallels can be drawn between these works and the Book of Mormon, I believe that the differences are far more significant." (Ibid., page 186)

A Striking Parallel

The reader will notice that in the quotation above Mr. Roper mentioned a book written by James Adair. This book, A History of the American Indians, was originally published in 1775. We have seen quotations from it in other books written in the nineteenth century, but never took the time to examine the book until we encountered a reprint published by Promontory Press. While we noticed that Adair's book presented "Observations, and arguments, in proof of the American Indians being descended from the Jews," and a great deal concerning their customs and history, at first we did not see anything that was too impressive. Toward the end of the book, however, we made the startling discovery that it had a portion so similar to the Joseph Smith's work that we could not escape the conclusion that Joseph Smith either had the book in his hand or a quotation from it when he was writing the Book of Mormon. On pages 337-378, James Adair wrote the following about the Indians:

"Through the whole continent, and in the remotest woods, are traces of their ancient warlike disposition. We frequently met with great mounds of earth, either of a circular, or oblong form, having a strong breast-work at a distance around them, made of the clay which had been dug up in forming the ditch on the inner side of the inclosed ground, and these were their forts of security against an enemy... About 12 miles from the upper northern parts of the Choktah country, there stand... two oblong mounds of earth... in an equal direction with each other... A broad deep ditch inclosed those two fortresses, and there they raised an high breast-work, to secure their houses from the invading enemy."

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#32694 Feb 19, 2014
In the book of Alma, which is found in the Book of Mormon, we find some extremely important parallels to the writings of Adair in chapters 48, 49, 50, and 53:

"Yea, he had been strengthening the armies of the Nephites, and erecting small forts, or places of resort; throwing up banks of earth round about to enclose his armies ... the Nephites were taught ... never to raise the sword except it were against an enemy... they had cast up dirt round to shield them from the arrows... the chief captains of the Lamanites were astonished exceedingly, because of the wisdom of the Nephites in preparing their places of security.... they knew not that Moroni had fortified, or had built forts of security in all the land round about... the Lamanites could not get into their forts of security.... because of the highness of the bank which had been thrown up, and the depth of the ditch which had been dug round about... they [the Lamanites] began to dig down their banks of earth... that they might have an equal chance to fight... instead of filling up their ditches by pulling down the banks of earth, they were filled up in a measure with their dead... And [Moroni] caused them to erect fortifications that they might secure their armies... Teancum... caused that they should commence laboring in digging a ditch round about the land... And he caused that they should build a breastwork of timbers upon the inner bank of the ditch; and they did cast up dirt out of the ditch against the breastwork of timbers..." (Book of Mormon, Alma, 48:8, 14; 49:2, 5, 13, 18, 22; 50:10; 53:3-4)

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no84.htm#A%20...

Is there anything Smith didn't steal from?

Since: Sep 12

Kissee Mills, MO

#32695 Feb 19, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>She did bring up one good point. How did you feel about your state taking away the rights of the early Saints? Something the really happened. Don't you think is was very unAmerican?
What was done to the early Saints in Missouri was not put to the vote of the people. It was just done. Big difference. In fact, there really is no comparison.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#32696 Feb 19, 2014
A good break down of just how many ideas he stole from the Apocrypha, which is known that Smith had.

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no89.htm

We noted above that the Book of Mormon speaks of the Hebrew scriptures being translated into the Egyptian language and engraved on plates of brass. This is mentioned in 1 Nephi 3:3: "For behold, Laban hath the record of the Jews and also a genealogy of my forefathers upon plates of brass." It is likely that this idea also came from the Apocrypha. In the apocryphal book of Ecclesiasticus 50:3, we read of "plates of brass." Although those particular plates may not have had writing upon them, in 1 Maccabees 8:22 the following appears: "And this is the copy of the epistle which the senate wrote back again in tables of brass, and sent to Jerusalem..."

In chapter 14 of 1 Maccabees we find the following:

"They wrote unto him, in tables of brass, to renew the friendship and league which they had made with Judas and Jonathan his brethren: Which writings were read before the congregation at Jerusalem.... So then they wrote it in tables of brass, which they set upon pillars in mount Sion..." (verses 18-19, 27)

That just being one example.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#32697 Feb 19, 2014
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>

You claim he plagiarized. I asked for proof. You haven't given any because proof doesn't exist.
Understand?
Proof of Smith plagiarizing other sources doesn't exist. People think they have ideas for where some of Smith's word usage came from and that isn't plagiarizing as far as the definition goes in our time.
Your intentional ignorance doesn't constitute "no evidence", especially when even Mormon apologists says there is. Just gave you some more examples to chew on, but feel free to keep your head in the sand. I can't stop you from being stupid.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#32698 Feb 19, 2014
Livinginthelandofcrazy wrote:
<quoted text>
What was done to the early Saints in Missouri was not put to the vote of the people. It was just done. Big difference. In fact, there really is no comparison.
So, if the state had taken a vote to exterminate the Mormons, it would have been OK? Does it really matter what process a peoples rights have been taken away before it can be deemed right or wrong?

Since: Sep 12

Ozark, MO

#32699 Feb 19, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>So, if the state had taken a vote to exterminate the Mormons, it would have been OK? Does it really matter what process a peoples rights have been taken away before it can be deemed right or wrong?
The point I was trying to make was that comparing the murder of innocent men, women, and children, violently being driven from the state, and loosing all their possessions because they are Mormon, and homosexuals
not being allowed to marry is not a good juxtaposition. It's apparent, the legislature of California didn't view putting same sex marriage on the ballot as violating the civil rights of homosexuals. That's for the courts to decide.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#32700 Feb 19, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
In the book, Review of Books on the Book of Mormon, vol. 4, 1992, Matthew Roper maintains that some of the nineteenth-century sources we suggested as possible sources for the Book of Mormon are rather weak (see pages 176-192). For many years we have maintained that at the time Joseph Smith "translated" the Book of Mormon there were a number of books that claimed the Indians were the descendants of the ancient Israelites an idea that is strongly set forth in the Book of Mormon. Mr. Roper acknowledged that "The Tanners correctly point out that the Book of Mormon appeared at a time when many people believed that the Indians were descendants of the lost ten tribes. Books by James Adair, Elias Boudinot, Ethan Smith, and others are fairly representative of the early nineteenth-century literature which supported such an idea. The Tanners suggest that the Book of Mormon was just one of many such books (pp. 81-84). While it is true that general similarities or parallels can be drawn between these works and the Book of Mormon, I believe that the differences are far more significant." (Ibid., page 186)
A Striking Parallel
The reader will notice that in the quotation above Mr. Roper mentioned a book written by James Adair. This book, A History of the American Indians, was originally published in 1775. We have seen quotations from it in other books written in the nineteenth century, but never took the time to examine the book until we encountered a reprint published by Promontory Press. While we noticed that Adair's book presented "Observations, and arguments, in proof of the American Indians being descended from the Jews," and a great deal concerning their customs and history, at first we did not see anything that was too impressive. Toward the end of the book, however, we made the startling discovery that it had a portion so similar to the Joseph Smith's work that we could not escape the conclusion that Joseph Smith either had the book in his hand or a quotation from it when he was writing the Book of Mormon. On pages 337-378, James Adair wrote the following about the Indians:
"Through the whole continent, and in the remotest woods, are traces of their ancient warlike disposition. We frequently met with great mounds of earth, either of a circular, or oblong form, having a strong breast-work at a distance around them, made of the clay which had been dug up in forming the ditch on the inner side of the inclosed ground, and these were their forts of security against an enemy... About 12 miles from the upper northern parts of the Choktah country, there stand... two oblong mounds of earth... in an equal direction with each other... A broad deep ditch inclosed those two fortresses, and there they raised an high breast-work, to secure their houses from the invading enemy."
"....we suggested as possible sources..." Still waiting for YOUR CLAIM of official documented evidence of PLAGIARIZED sources.

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