Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32072 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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Since: Sep 12

Reeds Spring, MO

#28887 Nov 6, 2013
Sterkfontein Swartkrans wrote:
The best explanation of mormonism and how stupid people are that believe joseph smith's crap is a South Park episode titled, what else, mormons! Check it out!!
Well, that was sure enlightening. Thanks.

Since: Sep 12

Reeds Spring, MO

#28888 Nov 6, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>Crazy, you figured out a long time ago that my secret agenda here was to help, so no need to thank me. And I'm aware that your constant attention to my grammar is only because you can't help but expressing your benevolence. Do you think my grammar has improved?
I can sure tell you what hasn't improved. Your ability to assume correctly.
pearl

Midvale, UT

#28889 Nov 6, 2013
Livinginthelandofcrazy wrote:
<quoted text>
I can sure tell you what hasn't improved. Your ability to assume correctly.
You mean as you do? Is it one of those godly traits I hear about? Cuz ya know if it is, I get a handicap for being female.
pearl

Midvale, UT

#28890 Nov 6, 2013
Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure it's "Woodland Critter Christmas"

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#28891 Nov 6, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
God forbid a student actually use his mind at a university. That would be breaking the "honor code". The irony was that when he did finally tell the truth, it was a violation of the "honor code". He should have just kept on lying.
Even lying wouldn't have helped. He opened his mouth without thinking(as I say to you at times)at blog sites and made statements that ran contrary to the honor code he took. He could have been opinionated about church policies etc and would have still attended BYU. He was an idiot for stating he lost his faith to atheism and was exploring other spiritual faiths and assuming the bosses wouldn't hear of it.
People take honor code type oaths all the time. To be a cop, fireman, physician, politician, shrink etc you take an honor code/oath and swear to uphold it and not break it. If you can't keep an oath, don't take one, pretty simple really.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#28892 Nov 6, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Being in a "honor code" does not make it right, and it's not set in stone. Just like the earlier prohibition of blacks holding the priesthood wasn't right. Freedom of religion is a Constitutional right. One no private school should have the right to overturn. He gave the LDS church 2 years of his life instead of going straight to college as he could have done. He had earned the right to be there.
Again it is the LDS church which claims:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
That is clearly a lie.
It's debatable that he gave two years of his life as a missionary to the church. He did do a mission. That's true. But what kind of a missionary was he is the question. A 'go getter'? Maybe one that drug his feet disliking being there but didn't have the courage to quit? Or maybe a mediocre one doing as was expected and nothing more.
Point being having did a mission didn't earn him the 'right' to be there any more than a non-Mormon deserves the right to be there.
The BYU honor code weeds out the wheat from the chaft as the verse goes. The church wants those who are serious about earning a degree while having strong moral character to come there. You don't like that and I'm not surprised.

Since: Sep 12

Reeds Spring, MO

#28893 Nov 6, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>You mean as you do? Is it one of those godly traits I hear about? Cuz ya know if it is, I get a handicap for being female.
I'm not surprised. What does surprise me is that you, being a liberal, didn't include being a "disabled Native American female." That would've really scored well.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#28894 Nov 6, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>I'm more pessimistic than anyone I know, but even I can see the bright side of this story. I can't help but think this kid will be better off and the church lost a member. It's really a win win.
It's not a win-win. The kid's dishonest. The kid was willing to lie and deceive to get gain. He entered BYU with faith wavering and heading out the door. Instead of waiting to analyze himself and what he wanted or didn't want concerning his faith, he dishonestly affirmed he was a TBRMM in good full faith believing. That was all a lie and he knew it. Once going to BYU, he broke the honor code by mentally and through blogs disavowed himself as having any Mormon faith and was an atheist and didn't report the change. He wanted his dishonesty and lies to to be excused by Mackay so his parents could get their $ back.
It's people like dana and nomo that think people like this kid should be able to lie and be dishonest in order to get gain if necessary. This kid was of that mind set.
The kid doesn't know what he wants. He didn't know it as a Mormon and he doesn't know it as an atheist. I do hope he gets it figured out under better circumstances.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#28895 Nov 6, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not a win-win. The kid's dishonest. The kid was willing to lie and deceive to get gain. He entered BYU with faith wavering and heading out the door. Instead of waiting to analyze himself and what he wanted or didn't want concerning his faith, he dishonestly affirmed he was a TBRMM in good full faith believing.
You keep claiming that, but no where in the article does it say that his was anything but a full faith believing Mormon when he started BYU. You are just justifying the horrific nature of the so-called honor code. A code that has no honor.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#28896 Nov 6, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
It's debatable that he gave two years of his life as a missionary to the church. He did do a mission. That's true. But what kind of a missionary was he is the question. A 'go getter'? Maybe one that drug his feet disliking being there but didn't have the courage to quit? Or maybe a mediocre one doing as was expected and nothing more.
Point being having did a mission didn't earn him the 'right' to be there any more than a non-Mormon deserves the right to be there.
The BYU honor code weeds out the wheat from the chaft as the verse goes. The church wants those who are serious about earning a degree while having strong moral character to come there. You don't like that and I'm not surprised.
There are many atheists of strong moral fiber, and he was keeping the moral aspects of the honor code. He just didn't believe the BS any more. As for what kind of mission he did, stop pretending you have any first hand knowledge of it because you don't. Again, you want to blame the victim instead of the criminal.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#28897 Nov 6, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Even lying wouldn't have helped. He opened his mouth without thinking(as I say to you at times)at blog sites and made statements that ran contrary to the honor code he took. He could have been opinionated about church policies etc and would have still attended BYU. He was an idiot for stating he lost his faith to atheism and was exploring other spiritual faiths and assuming the bosses wouldn't hear of it.
People take honor code type oaths all the time. To be a cop, fireman, physician, politician, shrink etc you take an honor code/oath and swear to uphold it and not break it. If you can't keep an oath, don't take one, pretty simple really.
Those oaths don't dictate how they can think.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#28898 Nov 6, 2013
Gentiles can convert to Mo but Mo's can't convert to anything...ok, and BYU can be as fcuked up as they want to and you are all ok with how this looks? Lol...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#28899 Nov 6, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>I'm more pessimistic than anyone I know, but even I can see the bright side of this story. I can't help but think this kid will be better off and the church lost a member. It's really a win win.
I know what you're saying, but it is a jackass policy created by even bigger jackasses who live to bully.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#28900 Nov 6, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>There are many atheists of strong moral fiber, and he was keeping the moral aspects of the honor code. He just didn't believe the BS any more. As for what kind of mission he did, stop pretending you have any first hand knowledge of it because you don't. Again, you want to blame the victim instead of the criminal.
He's tweaking and making up sh1t. Bless his heart

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#28901 Nov 6, 2013
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>Yep, in the long run, leaving his faith and university, he will be better off.
He will be fine..BYU will continue to look like the worst place in America to go to college..total win win

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#28902 Nov 6, 2013

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#28903 Nov 6, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep claiming that, but no where in the article does it say that his was anything but a full faith believing Mormon when he started BYU. You are just justifying the horrific nature of the so-called honor code. A code that has no honor.
Justifying the horrific nature of an honor code? I would say are you fricking serious? But you're not..lol. Why am I not surprised that you would find having the moral compass as follows horrific...lolol...really really sad dude...really.
Be honest
Live a chaste and virtuous life
Obey the law and all campus policies
Use clean language
Respect others
Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, and substance abuse
Participate regularly in church services
Observe the Dress and Grooming Standards
Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code
...and you find those moral values horrific...why am I not surprised.
By the way, the kid was in for a semester before he had problems. The second semester is when he was ratted out. He stated that. He also stated he was blogging during his first semester concerning his dislikes with church policies and his statements of losing his faith and was exploring other spiritual possibilities. That means he entered BYU knowing he doubted his faith in the church doctrine and Jesus as he worshiped him as a Mormon. The doubts he had prior to being a BYU student enabled him to immediately blog his doubts and frustrations and lack of faith as a new student. That information he wrote about doesn't set him as a TBRMM at the time of enrollment.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#28904 Nov 6, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many atheists of strong moral fiber, and he was keeping the moral aspects of the honor code. He just didn't believe the BS any more. As for what kind of mission he did, stop pretending you have any first hand knowledge of it because you don't. Again, you want to blame the victim instead of the criminal.
You really suck at being critical of others who state things of the LDS do you know that? I have had missionaries come to my home for the last 18 years. You haven't because you can't stand them or the church. I have seen the three types I spoke of for 18 years, you haven't. It is highly doubtful that he was a go getter on his mission. Go getters are usually lifers in the LDS religion like my own brother. Like two of my nephews. He may have been a mediocre type but it's tough to fake for two years to all around you, especially companions that your a TBM with a tear jerking testimony. Odds put him as a do as he was expected missionary. You can sense their lack of involvement because their quiet and reserved. They come to visit and they want to talk about current events and non-church matters. They won't ask you to politely turn your tv off while their there. This type missionary would be the most likely to have doubts or maybe not even have a true testimony and no one would be the wiser. The fact that he said he got off his mission and applied to BYU proves he came into BYU with growing doubts which prove they had to of been with him on his mission. He wasn't a TBRMM and once off his mission he woke up doubtful and unhappy with his faith. Those doubts take a while to fester. He had no one to talk to about them. But once off his mission and in school he got those doubts and crap out on blogs right after becoming a BYU student.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#28905 Nov 6, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many atheists of strong moral fiber, and he was keeping the moral aspects of the honor code. He just didn't believe the BS any more. As for what kind of mission he did, stop pretending you have any first hand knowledge of it because you don't. Again, you want to blame the victim instead of the criminal.
There was an honest approach he could have taken to his having lost his faith at a strict religious faith based university and he chose to lie/deceive and break the very covenants that got him in that institution as a TBRMM.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#28906 Nov 6, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Those oaths don't dictate how they can think.
To you they must because I didn't say they did. The kid signed a contract stating he would be legally bound to and he broke that contract and wanted to keep all the perks and to be found an exception to the rules of the contract. He entered as a Mormon in good faith standing. As a Mormon in good faith standing he was offered special financial perks if he'd attend BYU. A sweet deal really. He like you decided he'd twist the rules to his liking and screw 'em if they didn't like it.

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