Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32098 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#26081 May 27, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
She is a special kind of insane. She tried to gather information about me by writing to me pretending she was leaving the LDS church. This is what she wrote last year in a letter sent to my home:
Oct 7, 12
Dear Dana Robertson
Imagine my shock & horror to discover I am descended from Don Carlos Smith, and ALL the murders! I am proud his wife was Ca's poet laurette (I love to write) and would love to visit her statue & HAVE Her POEMS!
I WILL NO LONGER vote for Romney! Both are Islam-Mosem-Gay supporters!
I would like your help and advice! I DID Keep mormon belief in SELF PRESERVATION (tho never really served the mormons, saved at 10 yrs old). We are determined our family will LIVE awhile!(despite what IS SURELY COMING!)
Hoping for encoureagement and counsel. SO CONFUSED!
In Jesus Christ,
Carol Sutton.
When exposed on this forum, she went into a tirade promising me a law suit and visit from her son. Still waiting for both. LOL!!!
sportxmouse isn't your Carole Sutton dude...lol You have Sutton's address. Why don't you go visit her and her family and find out for yourself? Tell her your the guy she wrote to about Mormonism. Than ask her if she can show you her Topix profile...lol...you're in for a real surprise dude :)

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#26083 May 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
sportxmouse isn't your Carole Sutton dude...lol You have Sutton's address. Why don't you go visit her and her family and find out for yourself? Tell her your the guy she wrote to about Mormonism. Than ask her if she can show you her Topix profile...lol...you're in for a real surprise dude :)
It's Carol. You're just too ignorant to know it.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#26084 May 28, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
It's Carol. You're just too ignorant to know it.
lol...If Carol Sutton is sportmouse, then she's into polygamy because according to you then, she has two different residences in two different places far far apart from each other. She would also have a few kids by one husband and several kids by the other husband. With one husband she's a doubting jack Mormon and with the other she's a TBM that attends church.
You have one of her two addresses. Why don't you go to the address you have and tell the husband she's married to at that address, that she's married to another man and has other kids at another address where she's an active Mormon and attends church?
Put your $ where your mouth is dude. You're the one making all the claims. She and I message each other. I know who she is. You don't. If you knew her, you would know Sutton isn't mouse. That's what you would know.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#26085 May 28, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
It's Carol. You're just too ignorant to know it.
Oh hey, have you read the latest news find?

http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/26/1...

Dig the split image of a Menorah! lol...
These caves and their art was discovered long ago, than rediscovered in 2006.
They have numbered over 5000 individual paintings. One of the caves has been named "Cave of the horses". They haven't explained why such a strange name for a cave with pre-Hispanic drawings.
The art/drawings is post Columbus by three different cultures that lived in this area. But they don't know how anciently old beyond Columbus the drawings are.
I find it strange they have kept this under wraps for 7 years. Scientists usually post cave art they have discovered as soon as possible whether it's a few hundred years old or 3000 years old.
Have to wait and see :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#26086 May 28, 2013
For anyone interested, this is a more informative link concerning this art...

http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/25408
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#26087 May 28, 2013
The Mormon Church and the Negro Race

BRIGHAM YOUNG Second Prophet and President of the Mormon church from 1847 - 1877

“I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture.” Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, page 95

“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly without the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to the line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark on him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race—that they should be the “servant of servants:” and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that degree.”
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291

“In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the “servant of servants,” and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse, and those were known to be our religious views concerning them.”
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, page 172

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If a white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110

Clearly Brigham Young was a Racist and thus a false prophet.
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#26088 May 28, 2013
The Mormon Church and the Negro Race

JOSEPH SMITH First Prophet, President and Founder of the Mormon Church
from 1830 - 1944
“….we do not believe in setting the negroes free.”
History of the Church, Vol. 3, page 29

“Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization.”
History of the Church, Vol. 5, pages 218-219

On this and this alone we can see Joseph Smith was a false prophet and thus the LDS faith is founded on a falsehood

Mormons are not Christians their leaders show us it is so.
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#26090 May 28, 2013
The Mormon Church and the Negro Race

MARK E. PETERSON
of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Mormon church from 1944 - 1984

“Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was it God? And when He placed them there, He segregated them…. The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At least in the cases of the Lamanites and the negroes we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that He placed a dark skin upon them as a curse—as a punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them under threat of extension of the curse…. And He certainly segregated the descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there. The Negro was cursed as to the Priesthood, and therefore, was cursed as to the blessings of the Priesthood. Certainly God made a segregation there.

“Think of the Negro, cursed as to the Priesthood. Are we prejudiced against him? Unjustly, sometimes we are accused of having such a prejudice. But what does the mercy of God have for him? This Negro, who, in the pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa—if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faint, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost…

“If I were to marry a Negro woman and have children by her, my children would all be cursed as to the priesthood. Do I want my children cursed as to the priesthood? If there is one drop of negro blood in my children, as I have read to you, they receive the curse. There isn’t any argument, therefore, as to intermarriage with the Negro, is there? There are 50 million Negros in the United States. If they were to achieve complete absorption with the white race, think what that would do. With 50 million Negroes inter-married with us, where would the priesthood be? Who would hold it, in all America? Think what that would do to the work of the Church!....

“Now we are generous with the Negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among themselves, I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation?” Race Problems—As They Affect The Church (address given at BYU, August 27th, 1954

AS YOU CAN SEE THE LDS HAVE A HISTORY OF OUT AND OUT RACISM AGAINST BLACKS THAT NO LDS MISSIONARY THAT COMES TO YOUR DOOR EVEN HAS CLUE EXISTED.

LDS = DECEPTION

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#26091 May 28, 2013
concerned in Egypt wrote:
The Mormon Church and the Negro Race
JOSEPH SMITH First Prophet, President and Founder of the Mormon Church
from 1830 - 1944
“….we do not believe in setting the negroes free.”
History of the Church, Vol. 3, page 29
“Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization.”
History of the Church, Vol. 5, pages 218-219
On this and this alone we can see Joseph Smith was a false prophet and thus the LDS faith is founded on a falsehood
Mormons are not Christians their leaders show us it is so.
You seem to get around or have you been in one place all along, Culter, a suburb of Aberdeen, Scotland? Just curious. Saw some pics of the area, nice looking.
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#26092 May 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to get around or have you been in one place all along, Culter, a suburb of Aberdeen, Scotland? Just curious. Saw some pics of the area, nice looking.
Well No Surprise it appears my IP location interests you more than the fact I have posted today from LDS sources that in no way can be said to be Anti-Mormon a continual history of Racism in the LDS church.

In fact I have posted irrefutable evidence that the decision of the LDS church to allow blacks into the priesthood directly contradicts 150 years of its prophets and apostles teachings and decrees.

Head in the sand? again?

Anyway I work offshore so my IP depends which Satellite and or service provider I am using at any given time to post.

And yes for the first time in this thread, I do get around.
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#26093 May 28, 2013
Above should have rad and yes for the first time in this thread you are right I get around.

Anyway some more LDS Racist History as if the above did not suffice.

The Mormon Church and the Negro Race

JOHN TAYLOR
Third Prophet and President of the Mormon church from 1880 - 1887
“….after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham’s wife, as he had married a wife of the seed. And why did it pass though the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have representation upon the earth as well as God;….”
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, page 304

“When he [Satan] destroyed the inhabitants of the antediluvian worlds, he suffered a descendant of Cain to come through the flood in order that he might be properly represented upon the earth.”
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 23, page 336

JOSEPH FIELDING SMITH Tenth Prophet and President of the Mormon church from 1970 - 1972

“I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the negro.‘Darkies’ are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church.”
Look magazine, October 22, 1963, page 79

“There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less …. There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men received rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits.”
Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pages 66-67

“President Brigham Young, answering a question put to him by Elder Lorenzo D. Young in a meeting held December 25, 1869, in Salt lake City, said that Joseph Smith had declared that the negroes were not neutral in heaven, for all the spirits took sides, but the posterity of Cain are black because (Cain) committed murder.”
The Way to Perfection, pages 105-106

“That negro race, for instance, have been placed under restrictions because of their attitude in the world of spirits, few will doubt. It cannot be looked upon as just that they should be deprived of the power of the priesthood without it being a punishment for some act, or acts, performed before they were born.”
The Way to Perfection, page 43

“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. A curse was placed upon him and the curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into the world cursed with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel. These are the descendents of Cain. Moreover, they have been made to feel their inferiority and have been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning …. We will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our negro brethren, for they are our brethren—children of God—not withstanding their black covering emblematic of eternal darkness.”
The Way to Perfection, pages 101-102

There can be little doubt this is not Christian.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#26094 May 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...If Carol Sutton is sportmouse, then she's into polygamy because according to you then, she has two different residences in two different places far far apart from each other. She would also have a few kids by one husband and several kids by the other husband. With one husband she's a doubting jack Mormon and with the other she's a TBM that attends church.
You have one of her two addresses. Why don't you go to the address you have and tell the husband she's married to at that address, that she's married to another man and has other kids at another address where she's an active Mormon and attends church?
Put your $ where your mouth is dude. You're the one making all the claims. She and I message each other. I know who she is. You don't. If you knew her, you would know Sutton isn't mouse. That's what you would know.
I'm not the stalker, she is. And the day I have anything to prove to you has long past.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#26095 May 28, 2013
Another demonstration of how little the LDS church really thinks about it's poor members.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaithblog/5...

They care more about the dead than they do the living.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#26096 May 28, 2013
What trap?

Let them adopt! I don't think children were meant to be born in group homes, or with single teenager mothers who were impregnated by cheating ADULTEROUS husbands!

Sorry, the gays win hands down over the adultery option!

So I disagree with you and agree that depending on the actions of the individual (which all are accountable to) that any safe adult should adopt, who is physically capable.

Being GAY doesn't make a difference.

NOW the lesson is over.
concerned in Egypt wrote:
<quoted text>
You have just fallen into a trap so to speak.
Because if you allow them to marry then by definition you must allow them to adopt.
YOU see marriage was never about the Man or the Women the institute of marriage was for the children, because marriage by definition is the Institute under which children are to be raised.
I will not go further in this thread if you would like we can continue in a different thread.
But I must point out you have agreed with me Discrimination is ok under the right circumstances as you would not allow them to adopt.
So One must be careful when making the an argument against LDS Racism and not to say God or I do not discriminate ever because yes we do as You would against gays adopting children.
You give the LDS and out to call you a Hypocrite and dismiss your argument.
Here ends the Lesson
You could of just said I was right but I will take the fact you discriminate as that. LOL

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#26097 May 28, 2013
Look at you trying to run away from yonder flame.

Listen... unless you're an atheist, Adam and Eve were black.

So you wanna be an athiest? Go right ahead.

You're just proving you don't really acknowledge God.
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You destroyed the value of your entire post on the above fallacy of thought. Science HAS NEVER, EVER, proved Adam and Eve were black and or Africans. That was an out right lie on your part.
The first Adam and Eve to true science were hairy bent over primates that just left the jungle for the Savannah's of Africa. Those primates weren't from the garden of Eden. Neither were they wearing sins of furs made by God. And they didn't farm and build cities etc.
You have a racist view point that Adam and Eve were black. It's that simple.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#26098 May 28, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
5a. Liar. Owth is used several times in just the OT and the word MARK is used as a translation of what owth meant in those verses. Twice I supplied verses for you.

Osirica replies:

"mark"
occurs 37 times in 36 verses in the KJV

the Hebrew &#1488;&#1493;&#14 65;&#1514; ('owth), which occurs 79 times in 77 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV.

ONLY one verse are they used together.

This stupid mark of CAIN passage!

AV — sign(s) 60, token(s) 14, ensign(s) 2, miracles 2, mark 1

that is a number ONE in case you can't count.

CHECK MATE MORON!

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#26099 May 28, 2013
concerned in Egypt wrote:
Above should have rad and yes for the first time in this thread you are right I get around.
Anyway some more LDS Racist History as if the above did not suffice.
The Mormon Church and the Negro Race
JOHN TAYLOR
Third Prophet and President of the Mormon church from 1880 - 1887
“….after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham’s wife, as he had married a wife of the seed. And why did it pass though the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have representation upon the earth as well as God;….”
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, page 304
“When he [Satan] destroyed the inhabitants of the antediluvian worlds, he suffered a descendant of Cain to come through the flood in order that he might be properly represented upon the earth.”
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 23, page 336
JOSEPH FIELDING SMITH Tenth Prophet and President of the Mormon church from 1970 - 1972
“I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the negro.‘Darkies’ are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church.”
Look magazine, October 22, 1963, page 79
“There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less …. There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men received rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits.”
Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pages 66-67
“President Brigham Young, answering a question put to him by Elder Lorenzo D. Young in a meeting held December 25, 1869, in Salt lake City, said that Joseph Smith had declared that the negroes were not neutral in heaven, for all the spirits took sides, but the posterity of Cain are black because (Cain) committed murder.”
The Way to Perfection, pages 105-106
The Way to Perfection, pages 101-102
There can be little doubt this is not Christian.
Not Christian? Christians use to baptize the heathen and then use them of slaves. Christians perpetuated bigotry and racism and prejudice in the owning of slaves.
Owning slaves in Jerusalem 2000 years ago was a way of life and Jesus enforced laws for it. Jesus never spoke against it. The Bible the book of God supported slavery and regulated slavery with laws. Never once did God speak against slavery.
Black Africans became the Christians favorite victim for centuries and shipped them to South and Central America and the Caribbean and other islands to work their plantations.
And Christian ministers validated the owning of black African slaves. They did this by claiming Cain was turned black as in African black and, one of Cains descendants married Ham and a descendant of Ham with dark skin was cursed by Noah to be a slave. That was the common interpretation to validate enslaving black Africans by Christian ministers for centuries.
Every person PRIOR to converting to Mormonism in Smith's day heard that Christian interpretation from ministers from the north to the south. So of course they had negative thoughts of blacks, Christian ministers put those thoughts in their heads telling them God told them that reasoning.
Based on your reasoning, Christians today can't be real Christians because their past is covered in deep, dark, filthy prejudicial, bigotry and racism of blacks made to be slaves by the Bible.
So what now?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#26101 May 28, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not the stalker, she is. And the day I have anything to prove to you has long past.
Fricking fool...lol, where did I call you a stalker? I said you are calling her the wrong name. I told you she is not your Carole Sutton that wrote you. I reminded you that you have Carole Suttons address. I challenged you to go to the address and put your $ where your flapping lips are and prove what you believe.
lol...I didn't say you had anything to prove to me. But you have a lot to prove to yourself as your perpetuating a lie as is a common thing you do. Truth is something hard for you to deal with, it's why you resort to name calling, belittling others and that lying you do. If truth and honesty were as much a part of your character as lying is, you'd never lie. You'd hardly ever use foul language. You'd next to never if ever speak badly and rudely of others with that dark filthy speech you like to toss about.
But all of that is based on you being a lover of truth and honesty so just saying :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#26102 May 28, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
Another demonstration of how little the LDS church really thinks about it's poor members.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaithblog/5...
They care more about the dead than they do the living.
Are you that pathetically, moronically ignorantly stupid? Do you have the faintest idea how much a company has to spend to provide health care to employees under Obama care? Haven't you been reading the news? Haven't you been reading that companies are downsizing already so they can avoid the increase in labor costs they'll have to spend for Obama care?
From the web... "Under the new health care act, companies will be required to provide health care to full-time employees by 2014. That would significantly boost labor costs for businesses." I know a guy that works at a coffee bean warehouse. He told me he was informed he had to spend $230. a month for health care through the company or get fired because Obama care mandates companies afford health care to full time employees which he is.
Small mom and pop businesses with a few to several employees that just rest a bit in the black in profit margin, The $ to make Obama care available to full time employees comes out of that profit margin.
You've said some really stupid, ignorant things at times but this one takes the cake, ice cream and dishes...lolol....if you think the LDS church has a money tree that'll never go empty, you're more pathetically ignorantly stupid than I gave you credit for not being...

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#26103 May 28, 2013
Oh here you go trying to defend Panty Raid Smith by pointing out OTHER blasphemous sects of Christianity.

We GET it, others were bad too. That doesn't make Panty Raid any better!

Here is what now:

1. Not every denomination of Christianity taught this blasephemy. You assume they "all" did. But the fact is, many did NOT.
2. The texts of the Bible were not altered to support this... that is except in the case of Panty Raid Mormonism, which STANDS ALONE in this regard.
3. Many of the others renounced and apologizezd for this activity.

Thus, you can go back to the texts, and because of archaeological evidence you can see that the antiquity period of historical documents do not support your view.
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Not Christian? Christians use to baptize the heathen and then use them of slaves. Christians perpetuated bigotry and racism and prejudice in the owning of slaves.
Owning slaves in Jerusalem 2000 years ago was a way of life and Jesus enforced laws for it. Jesus never spoke against it. The Bible the book of God supported slavery and regulated slavery with laws. Never once did God speak against slavery.
Black Africans became the Christians favorite victim for centuries and shipped them to South and Central America and the Caribbean and other islands to work their plantations.
And Christian ministers validated the owning of black African slaves. They did this by claiming Cain was turned black as in African black and, one of Cains descendants married Ham and a descendant of Ham with dark skin was cursed by Noah to be a slave. That was the common interpretation to validate enslaving black Africans by Christian ministers for centuries.
Every person PRIOR to converting to Mormonism in Smith's day heard that Christian interpretation from ministers from the north to the south. So of course they had negative thoughts of blacks, Christian ministers put those thoughts in their heads telling them God told them that reasoning.
Based on your reasoning, Christians today can't be real Christians because their past is covered in deep, dark, filthy prejudicial, bigotry and racism of blacks made to be slaves by the Bible.
So what now?

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