Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 31996 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23287 Apr 11, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
You dumbass!
... they are using bmaf as a server...
It is the content in the book... that you will not read that is important.
You think the story of the Book of Mormon is true, and you call me a "dumbass"? LOL!!!!!!!!!!

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23288 Apr 11, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I have friends and family that aren't Mormon, attend Christian denominations and they have stated they don't truly feel worthy of being called a Christian if they don't give 10% to their church. They state the Bible states it's to be done by way of commandment. I was taught that in the Baptist faith and the Methodist faith and the Presbyterian faith. They all stated "A good Christian tithes to the Lord's church".
Now what extreme one?
Your friends opinions proves nothing but that they are your friends opinions. My child use to believe in Santa Claus, does that mean he is real also?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23289 Apr 11, 2013
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
Do those churches require 10% to be deemed worthy by a prophet? Who do you tithe to?
Those churches ministers have the same sit down with members for tithing like Mormons do it. As a matter of fact, Christian churches have been doing the tithing thing for a couple centuries before the word Mormon came into existence in America. Christian churches have been doing the tithing thing since Mormons have been around. Maybe that is new news to you that Christians in general feel it's a commandment that they pay 10% to the Lord's church of their choice that they attend? I am assuming you don't attend Christian churches since you don't know anything about tithing and modern Christianity. That basket they pass out each Sunday, in many churches that affords what the minister eats and supplies $ for church repairs and church functions etc. Tithing in many Christian religions is a very expected thing from it's members.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23290 Apr 11, 2013
NoMo wrote:
PaKKKer says tolerance is a trap, Monson says tithing is obedience...
How sad that you sheep listen to this ridiculous garbage and consider these creeps prophets.
Why don't you go find a non-Mormon church. Go in and find the pastor. Ask them how they would function if no one paid any tithing. Go find two or three different non-Mormon churches and ask each pastor that same question.
When he begins to explain all the things that wouldn't happen/take place if they received no tithing, that's your cue to tell that pastor in your opinion it's sad and a shame that he convinces his members to listen to his garbage speech about the importance of tithing.
You don't attend a Christian church obviously because if you did, you would tithe and you would understand the concept of tithing and that it's origin isn't with Mormons. If you attended a Christian church and tithed, you would understand your tithing goes to help to pay the upkeep of the building your church is in or uses, that the tithing is used to help members with food who don't have much and many other things.
But obviously you don't have a concept of tithing. If you did, you would understand it's importance to a church's existence.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23291 Apr 11, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I know how to read plain English: "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy,"
Oh deceitful one, take it in context and then state your case...

Finally, it must be remembered that Brigham Young is speaking to a group who had been commanded to live the law of polygamy. There is no basis here for speculating about what he would have said to a group who did not have that commandment given to them, as we now do not.

To obtain the blessings of Abraham, the Saints were required to be "polygamists at least in your faith": i.e., it was not necessary that each enter into plural marriage in practice, but that they accept that God spoke to His prophets.

This quotation is often used in anti-Mormon sources. "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy,".
Unsurprisingly, they do not include the surrounding text which explains what Brigham Young had in mind on this occasion (italics show text generally not cited by the critics):
We wish to obtain all that father Abraham obtained. I wish here to say to the Elders of Israel, and to all the members of this Church and kingdom, that it is in the hearts of many of them to wish that the doctrine of polygamy was not taught and practiced by us...It is the word of the Lord, and I wish to say to you, and all the world, that if you desire with all your hearts to obtain the blessings which Abraham obtained, you will be polygamists at least in your faith, or you will come short of enjoying the salvation and the glory which Abraham has obtained. This is as true as that God lives. You who wish that there were no such thing in existence, if you have in your hearts to say: "We will pass along in the Church without obeying or submitting to it in our faith or believing this order, because, for aught that we know, this community may be broken up yet, and we may have lucrative offices offered to us; we will not, therefore, be polygamists lest we should fail in obtaining some earthly honor, character and office, etc,"—the man that has that in his heart, and will continue to persist in pursuing that policy, will come short of dwelling in the presence of the Father and the Son, in celestial glory. The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessings offered unto them, and they refused to accept them.[1](emphasis added)
It is clear that Brigham was making several points which the critics ignore:
The command to practice plural marriage is from God, and it is wrong to seek to abolish a command from God.
To obtain the blessings of Abraham, the Saints were required to be "polygamists at least in your faith": i.e., it was not necessary that each enter into plural marriage in practice, but that they accept that God spoke to His prophets.
It was wrong to avoid plural marriage for worldly, selfish reasons, such as believing the Church would fail, and hoping to have political or monetary rewards afterward.
Faithful Saints cannot expect to receive "all that the Father has" if they willfully disobey God. When the people have "had blessings offered unto them," and if they refuse to obey, God will withhold blessings later because of that disobedience now.
Finally, it must be remembered that Brigham Young is speaking to a group who had been commanded to live the law of polygamy. There is no basis here for speculating about what he would have said to a group who did not have that commandment given to them, as we now do not.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23292 Apr 11, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
Well, the speeches of that day and the the leaders say you're wrong.
No. They prove you perpetuate a lie. Modern living and those recently passed on in the last several decades have taught Mormon couples, one man and one wife, can be a god and goddess by marriage and a temple sealing for time and eternity. So the concept isn't limited to just polygamous unions. So you're still wrong and your own dad would have should have explained that to you if you had asked it of him.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23293 Apr 11, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
So, because you think Ezekiel talked about UFO's, the crop circles are really made by them?
You'll believe anything.
Stop with your dirty dance to twist away from answering your own statement.
You dismissed the guy's credibility because he believes UFOs of some kind are responsible for crop circles.
Well according to your reasoning, you should dismiss Ezekiel's credibility because he also stated a belief in UFOs.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23294 Apr 11, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Put down the crack pipe.
Childish reply as usual when intelligence escapes you...

C. S. Lewis also wrote,
“The command ‘Be ye perfect’ is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible.[God] is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were ‘gods’ and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him–for we can prevent Him, if we choose–He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful, but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said”(Mere Christianity 205-206).
Please note the distinction C. S. Lewis makes between God (singular and with a capital G) and gods (plural, with a lower case g). Paul the Apostle makes the same distinction. He wrote that there are “gods many and lords many,” but “to us there is ... one God, the Father”(1 Corinthians 8:5-6). This necessary distinction between God and gods resolves other doubts concerning polytheism and becoming equal to God (Cf. Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8). We can never be equal to God: He is “God of gods”(Joshua 22:22).

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#23295 Apr 11, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Your friends opinions proves nothing but that they are your friends opinions. My child use to believe in Santa Claus, does that mean he is real also?
As a liberal, you wouldn't understand the concept of tithing unless you were getting something directly in return for having tithed.

From the web...

Several groups also stood out as highly unlikely to tithe: people under the age of 25, atheists and agnostics, single adults who have never been married, liberals, and downscale adults. One percent or less of the people in each of those segments tithed in 2007.

Your group :)...liberals, and downscale adults.

Tithing in 2007

Whether they believe in the principle of tithing or not, few Americans give away that much money. In 2007, the research revealed that just 5% of adults tithed.

Not surprisingly, some population groups were more likely than others to have given away at least ten percent of their income. Among the most generous segments were evangelicals (24% of whom tithed); conservatives (12%); people who had prayed, read the Bible and attended a church service during the past week (12%); charismatic or Pentecostal Christians (11%); and registered Republicans (10%).

Several groups also stood out as highly unlikely to tithe: people under the age of 25, atheists and agnostics, single adults who have never been married, liberals, and downscale adults. One percent or less of the people in each of those segments tithed in 2007.

Among all born again adults, 9% contributed one-tenth or more of their income.

The study also showed that Protestants were four times as likely to tithe as were Catholics (8% versus 2%, respectively).

Tithing Since 2000

The percentage of adults who tithe has stayed constant since the turn of the decade, falling in the 5% to 7% range. The Barna tracking reported that the proportion of adults who tithed was 7% in 2006 and 2005; 5% in 2004 and 2003; 6% in 2002; and 5% in 2001.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#23296 Apr 11, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Those churches ministers have the same sit down with members for tithing like Mormons do it. As a matter of fact, Christian churches have been doing the tithing thing for a couple centuries before the word Mormon came into existence in America. Christian churches have been doing the tithing thing since Mormons have been around. Maybe that is new news to you that Christians in general feel it's a commandment that they pay 10% to the Lord's church of their choice that they attend? I am assuming you don't attend Christian churches since you don't know anything about tithing and modern Christianity. That basket they pass out each Sunday, in many churches that affords what the minister eats and supplies $ for church repairs and church functions etc. Tithing in many Christian religions is a very expected thing from it's members.
No, ministers do not have sit down meetings with individual members, to make sure they are paying the full 10%. You are FOS, as usual.
They also don't have " tithing police" going door to door the first Sunday of every month. When I first moved here, an episcopal priest told me a story. He was in a post office in a small town in southern Utah, while he waited at the counter, he noticed the postmaster's office door was open. They guy was sitting at his desk, opening tax returns and taking notes. NO, other religions don't do that. Just your mo-corp.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#23297 Apr 11, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you go find a non-Mormon church. Go in and find the pastor. Ask them how they would function if no one paid any tithing. Go find two or three different non-Mormon churches and ask each pastor that same question.
When he begins to explain all the things that wouldn't happen/take place if they received no tithing, that's your cue to tell that pastor in your opinion it's sad and a shame that he convinces his members to listen to his garbage speech about the importance of tithing.
You don't attend a Christian church obviously because if you did, you would tithe and you would understand the concept of tithing and that it's origin isn't with Mormons. If you attended a Christian church and tithed, you would understand your tithing goes to help to pay the upkeep of the building your church is in or uses, that the tithing is used to help members with food who don't have much and many other things.
But obviously you don't have a concept of tithing. If you did, you would understand it's importance to a church's existence.
Idiot, Ive worked in churches for a couple of decades. You obviously haven't been to any other churches, or paid any attention when once a year, they publish their budget, financials and have pledge drives. That is NOTHING like having to meet with your bishop once a year and settling your debt, while having no earthly idea how your money is going to be used. They can tell you anything they want, with NO transparency and you poor souls fall for it.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23298 Apr 11, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Stop with your dirty dance to twist away from answering your own statement.
You dismissed the guy's credibility because he believes UFOs of some kind are responsible for crop circles.
Well according to your reasoning, you should dismiss Ezekiel's credibility because he also stated a belief in UFOs.
Crack logic at it's best.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23299 Apr 11, 2013
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
No, ministers do not have sit down meetings with individual members, to make sure they are paying the full 10%. You are FOS, as usual.
They also don't have " tithing police" going door to door the first Sunday of every month. When I first moved here, an episcopal priest told me a story. He was in a post office in a small town in southern Utah, while he waited at the counter, he noticed the postmaster's office door was open. They guy was sitting at his desk, opening tax returns and taking notes. NO, other religions don't do that. Just your mo-corp.
You're dam right they don't. I've attend many churches since I've left Mormonism, and have never once had a meeting with a minister was asking me if I've been paying a full tithe. Not once.

Day by day it is very apparent No surprise will say anything to try to save the mormon church. He pulls truth from his butt.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23300 Apr 11, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Childish reply as usual when intelligence escapes you...
C. S. Lewis also wrote,
“The command ‘Be ye perfect’ is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible.[God] is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were ‘gods’ and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him–for we can prevent Him, if we choose–He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful, but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said”(Mere Christianity 205-206).
Please note the distinction C. S. Lewis makes between God (singular and with a capital G) and gods (plural, with a lower case g). Paul the Apostle makes the same distinction. He wrote that there are “gods many and lords many,” but “to us there is ... one God, the Father”(1 Corinthians 8:5-6). This necessary distinction between God and gods resolves other doubts concerning polytheism and becoming equal to God (Cf. Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8). We can never be equal to God: He is “God of gods”(Joshua 22:22).
And what does this have to do with Smith, polygamy, and D&C 132? Do you know how to follow a topic?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23301 Apr 11, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
No. They prove you perpetuate a lie. Modern living and those recently passed on in the last several decades have taught Mormon couples, one man and one wife, can be a god and goddess by marriage and a temple sealing for time and eternity. So the concept isn't limited to just polygamous unions. So you're still wrong and your own dad would have should have explained that to you if you had asked it of him.
Well, that is the beauty of Mormonism, depending on what year it is, you can prove any dam thing you want, yet they would have us believe these contradictions in teachings, contradiction in leaders are all getting their messages from God. Mormon God seems to be a very confused little god if he can't get what he wants straight. A great demonstration on why the LDS church is total BS.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23302 Apr 11, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh deceitful one, take it in context and then state your case...
Finally, it must be remembered that Brigham Young is speaking to a group who had been commanded to live the law of polygamy. There is no basis here for speculating about what he would have said to a group who did not have that commandment given to them, as we now do not.
To obtain the blessings of Abraham, the Saints were required to be "polygamists at least in your faith": i.e., it was not necessary that each enter into plural marriage in practice, but that they accept that God spoke to His prophets.
This quotation is often used in anti-Mormon sources. "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy,".
Unsurprisingly, they do not include the surrounding text which explains what Brigham Young had in mind on this occasion (italics show text generally not cited by the critics):
We wish to obtain all that father Abraham obtained. I wish here to say to the Elders of Israel, and to all the members of this Church and kingdom, that it is in the hearts of many of them to wish that the doctrine of polygamy was not taught and practiced by us...It is the word of the Lord, and I wish to say to you, and all the world, that if you desire with all your hearts to obtain the blessings which Abraham obtained, you will be polygamists at least in your faith, or you will come short of enjoying the salvation and the glory which Abraham has obtained. This is as true as that God lives. You who wish that there were no such thing in existence, if you have in your hearts to say: "We will pass along in the Church without obeying or submitting to it in our faith or believing this order, because, for aught that we know, this community may be broken up yet, and we may have lucrative offices offered to us; we will not, therefore, be polygamists lest we should fail in obtaining some earthly honor, character and office, etc,"—the man that has that in his heart, and will continue to persist in pursuing that policy, will come short of dwelling in the presence of the Father and the Son, in celestial glory. The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy. Others attain unto a glory and may even be permitted to come into the presence of the Father and the Son; but they cannot reign as kings in glory, because they had blessings offered unto them, and they refused to accept them.[1](emphasis added)
It is clear that Brigham was making several points which the critics ignore:
The command to practice plural marriage is from God, and it is wrong to seek to abolish a command from God.
To obtain the blessings of Abraham, the Saints were required to be "polygamists at least in your faith": i.e., it was not necessary that each enter into plural marriage in practice, but that they accept that God spoke to His prophets.
It was wrong to avoid plural marriage for worldly, selfish reasons, such as believing the Church would fail, and hoping to have political or monetary rewards afterward.
Faithful Saints cannot expect to receive "all that the Father has" if they willfully disobey God. When the people have "had blessings offered unto them," and if they refuse to obey, God will withhold blessings later because of that disobedience now.
Finally, it must be remembered that Brigham Young is speaking to a group who had been commanded to live the law of polygamy. There is no basis here for speculating about what he would have said to a group who did not have that commandment given to them, as we now do not.
Wonderful doubletalk, but that is all. It is also an admission that Mormon leaders can and are two faced. They will say when thing to the faithful and change their story to the unbelievers. That is called deceiving. Another type of "lying for the lord."

By the way, when you post something, please give the source. Crazy and I, like to see the source.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23303 Apr 11, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
As a liberal, you wouldn't understand the concept of tithing unless you were getting something directly in return for having tithed.
From the web...
Several groups also stood out as highly unlikely to tithe: people under the age of 25, atheists and agnostics, single adults who have never been married, liberals, and downscale adults. One percent or less of the people in each of those segments tithed in 2007.
Your group :)...liberals, and downscale adults.
Tithing in 2007
Whether they believe in the principle of tithing or not, few Americans give away that much money. In 2007, the research revealed that just 5% of adults tithed.
Not surprisingly, some population groups were more likely than others to have given away at least ten percent of their income. Among the most generous segments were evangelicals (24% of whom tithed); conservatives (12%); people who had prayed, read the Bible and attended a church service during the past week (12%); charismatic or Pentecostal Christians (11%); and registered Republicans (10%).
Several groups also stood out as highly unlikely to tithe: people under the age of 25, atheists and agnostics, single adults who have never been married, liberals, and downscale adults. One percent or less of the people in each of those segments tithed in 2007.
Among all born again adults, 9% contributed one-tenth or more of their income.
The study also showed that Protestants were four times as likely to tithe as were Catholics (8% versus 2%, respectively).
Tithing Since 2000
The percentage of adults who tithe has stayed constant since the turn of the decade, falling in the 5% to 7% range. The Barna tracking reported that the proportion of adults who tithed was 7% in 2006 and 2005; 5% in 2004 and 2003; 6% in 2002; and 5% in 2001.
As a Christian I very know the concept of tithing, what i don't do is say it done because my friends do it. When I talk about Mormonism, I don't justify my statement by saying "some Mormons told me that."

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#23304 Apr 11, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
That is because not one legit person in the field takes him seriously. Not one.
Or, maybe it is just because you haven't seen what he is talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Step_pyramid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Step_pyramid#Mes...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toltec

Here is a step pyramid... in MEXICO & MESOAMERICA.

I am not really sure if that is the architect of today. You can see some of the hieroglyphs on the buildings, on the steps.

If you read some of the books... I can give you other authors, but you haven't read that one yet.

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#23305 Apr 11, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
You think the story of the Book of Mormon is true, and you call me a "dumbass"? LOL!!!!!!!!!!
No, I do not THINK the Book of Mormon is true. I KNOW IT IS TRUE.

And, I also know you are a dumbass and like to play games.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23307 Apr 11, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I do not THINK the Book of Mormon is true. I KNOW IT IS TRUE.
And, I also know you are a dumbass and like to play games.
No Surprise and you can keep smoking the LDS crack if you want, but that will make you the dumbass, not me.

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