Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32093 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23210 Apr 8, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
There is evidence the Spaniards testified of it when they found the first chapters word for word of Genesis in their possession.
The fact is you just don't want to accept it as proof.
The fact is all you have done is make a claim, I have yet to see any proof.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23211 Apr 8, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's another Jesus said to do as I say and shut up or go to hell...
21 “Not everyone who says to me,‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father (BUT ONLY THE ONE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER)who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day,‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly,‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice (WHO HEARS THESE WORDS OF MINE AND PUTS THEM INTO PRACTICE) is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”
Seems Monson understands what Jesus said better than you have allow for self comprehension as of yet, just saying :)
More evidence of your lack of reading comprehension, nothing more.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23212 Apr 8, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
As a non-Mormon on the web phrased up nicely, matching what Monson stated...
"When a person claims that one must accept Jesus as Lord to be saved but does not have to obey Jesus to be saved, he contradicts himself and He contradicts Jesus. It is like claiming you are lying in bed and running an Olympic marathon at the same time. One cannot run a marathon lying in bed, and one cannot accept Jesus as Lord without obeying Him."
That's nice.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23213 Apr 8, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...I don't even find it really interesting. Amusing maybe. This Grant claims to have inside information that could really hurt the church if it's true and he's gonna sit on it? That I find amusing.
Now ask me if I care.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23214 Apr 8, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's the beginning of his doubts... "During this time the infamous Salamander Letter surfaced, challenging the orthodox story of Mormon beginnings, though the letter was eventually found to be a forgery. As an ardent student of LDS history the letter caused Palmer to consider the influences of American folk magic on Joseph Smith's religious practices." ...he continued his doubts. He found his own reasons to maintain his doubts. Now he projects in his writings that most of the apostles that have existed and do exist along with seventies have his same doubts. But their all buddy buddy and for the good of the Mormon church, their all going to remain liars and hypocrites of how they really feel as Grant feels and pretend to be faithful God fearing Mormon leaders.
If something sounds to good to be true, it usually isn't true.
Well, I'll look into it anyway, if you don't mind.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23215 Apr 8, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...speaking of a mind like a brick, we weren't speaking of what Jesus believed you goof, we were speaking of what the Sadducees said of what they had no belief in. Get the conversation straight or leave it, give me a fricking break from your lack of memory please???
You claim the Old Testament was all there yet when he made his statement. I showing hit was by the fact he quoted from many of the books. You are thicker today than usual, pitiful.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23216 Apr 8, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...that was pathetically funny but I'm not surprised by such a response lol. Either you are really brain dead for comprehension or you responded ignorantly because you could, which is it?
I was posting like you do. How does your medicine taste?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23217 Apr 8, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
and the hieroglyphics came from the Nephites in the Book of Mormon...
The Nephites escaped from Jerusalem before the Nebuchadnezzar took the Jews into Captivity. About 587 B.C.
Lehi was an educated man who wrote Hebrew language in Egyptian Hieroglyphs... The language became abbreviated and into a language of it's own to save space on the plates they had available to them for writing their history.
How does one write Hebrew in Egyptian "Hieroglyphs"? To write in Hebrew, you would need to use Hebrew characters.

Since: Jun 09

Schenectady, NY

#23218 Apr 8, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>

As far as you statement above... that is your opinion, and nothing more.
Not my opinion,, check the Book of Mormon, and what BYU says:
Mormons grow up with the belief that Native Americans are somehow related to a lost tribe from Israel. That tribe, they are told, came across the ocean about 600 B.C. to America, led by an otherwise unknown Jewish prophet named "Lehi."

To a Mormon this story is history, but to historians it is simply a fiction, concocted by Joseph Smith within his "Book of Mormon." The complete lack of any objective archaeological or historical proof to support such a story is explained away by Mormon apologists to the faithful. Mormons appear to believe that faith, makes fiction fact. But archaeologists, linguists and genetic experts, outside the subculture of Mormonism, have known for some time that Native Americans actually originated from Asia and not Israel.

Science and faith have increasingly collided as the Mormon religion continues on from its early beginnings. Confronted by historical evidence that repeatedly disproves their holy book, Mormons have long hoped for some artifact or research that would support their faith. Some felt that day might have indeed come through research at The Mormon Church-owned Brigham Young University in Provo, where genetic tests were being done during 2000.

Mormon doctrine claims that Lehi's children eventually became two warring factions, which included the good, white Nephites and the bad, brown Lamanites. The Lamanites, eventually killed all the Nephites by 500 A.D. But the bad, brown Laminates continued to live on and are now called Native Americans.

The Book of Mormon originally stated that when Lamanites converted they would then become "white and delightsome." In 1981 the church decided to replace the word "white" with "pure." It has been said that such Mormon beliefs reflect racism. And though every faithful male Mormon may enter its priesthood, blacks were excluded until 1978. Based upon such stories about the Lamanites, modern Mormon missionaries today often feel called to proselytize amongst aboriginal cultures in South America and the Pacific Islands.

At a temple dedication in Ecuador during 1999 Mormon President Gordon B. Hickley said, "It has been a very interesting thing to see the descendants of Father Lehi in the congregations that have gathered in the temple. So very many of these people have the blood of Lehi in their veins, and it is just an intriguing thing to see their tremendous response and their tremendous interest."

At BYU they also appeared to be intrigued by the "blood of Lehi." Mormon researchers there gathered DNA samples from 100,000 volunteers around the world, which included South America and Israel. They hoped somehow to prove the claims made more than a century ago by Joseph Smith, that there is a connection between ancient Israel and modern Native Americans. Mormons often seem fixated upon genealogy as a religious preoccupation.

But credible scientists, outside of Mormon apologists, say no Israelites ever came to America 2,600 years ago. There is no linguistic or archaeological trace of such a culture. Michael Crawford, a University of Kansas professor of biological anthropology and author of Origins of Native Americans, Cambridge University Press stated emphatically, "I don't think there is one iota of evidence that suggests a lost tribe from Israel made it all the way to the New World. It is a great story, slain by ugly fact,"

Ironically, the database compiled by BYU can only conclude that there is no evidence of a Native American/Israel connection. In fact, no DNA study at any university has ever demonstrated otherwise. However, it is doubtful that BYU would ever release any research that could potentially prove embarrassing to the church

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#23219 Apr 8, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact is all you have done is make a claim, I have yet to see any proof.
Read a book...

above I gave you a list to start from.

I can't read it for you. I've been telling you to read books from that list for a year now. Yet, you have not opened a book to educate yourself.

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#23220 Apr 8, 2013
Cfoote wrote:
<quoted text>
...
To a Mormon this story is history, but to historians it is simply a fiction, concocted by Joseph Smith within his "Book of Mormon."
...
If you know so much about what you are talking about... then you will realize there is no way for an uneducated man to set up the Church without help.

Do you think farm boy, with little education, can write the Book of Mormon (with no conflicting statements) and keep it all straight in a 3 month time frame?

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#23221 Apr 8, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
How does one write Hebrew in Egyptian "Hieroglyphs"? To write in Hebrew, you would need to use Hebrew characters.
That is not what I said...

He wrote in Egyptian Hieroglyphs the spoken word of Hebrew... Few men were able to have this knowledge... He was among few that traveled to Egypt as part of their trade most likely because Lehi had a trading business in the area..

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#23222 Apr 8, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact is all you have done is make a claim, I have yet to see any proof.
You will not read a book... do you declare you can be shown without looking at the evidence for yourself?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23223 Apr 9, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
Read a book...
above I gave you a list to start from.
I can't read it for you. I've been telling you to read books from that list for a year now. Yet, you have not opened a book to educate yourself.
So, which one tells about the Native Americans have Genesis? Because you know what? I don't think you've read them either. I think you found a list on the web and just reposted it, Carol.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23224 Apr 9, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
You will not read a book... do you declare you can be shown without looking at the evidence for yourself?
Give me the source of your info, I'll look into it. But you have to give it first.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23225 Apr 9, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
If you know so much about what you are talking about... then you will realize there is no way for an uneducated man to set up the Church without help.
Do you think farm boy, with little education, can write the Book of Mormon (with no conflicting statements) and keep it all straight in a 3 month time frame?
No I don't think he could, and he didn't:

19. The book must not contain any absurd, impossible, or contradictory statements. Your history must not contain any statement that will contradict any other statement elsewhere in the volume.

Oh, brother! Here is where the challenge really begins to unravel. A volume unto itself could (and has many times over) be produced to answer this point of challenge. First the absurd: The next to last book in the BOM (the book of Ether) purports to be an account of a migration of people from the Middle East at the time of the confounding of languages at the Tower of Babel. A godly man by the name of Jared and his even godlier brother (and his friends and family) are told by the Lord to migrate to a land across the sea.

The first absurdity we are treated to is the lack of identity of Jared’s brother. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie said:

“Some of the greatest heavenly manifestations ever vouchsafed to man were given to the Brother of Jared.”23

And yet, we are never given this holy man’s name. He is always addressed as the “brother of Jared.” In fact, in the first six chapters of the Book of Ether he is addressed as “brother of Jared” 46 times,“Jared with his brother” one time,“Jared, his brother” one time,“Jared and his brother” six times,“Jared said unto his brother” three times, and “Jared died, and his brother also” one time. How much easier to just give us the brother’s name.

Next we are treated to a description of the Lord’s revelation for building “barges” to get Jared and his associates across the ocean. I offer the below description without comment. It is up to the reader to judge the absurdity of the narrative.

Ether 2:16-21 —“And the Lord said: Go to work and build, after the manner of barges which ye have hitherto built. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did go to work, and also his brethren, and built barges after the manner which they had built, according to the instructions of the Lord. And they were small, and they were light upon the water, even like unto the lightness of a fowl upon the water. And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly tight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared cried unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, I have performed the work which thou hast commanded me, and I have made the barges according as thou hast directed me. And behold, O Lord, in them there is no light; whither shall we steer? And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish. And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did so, according as the Lord had commanded.”

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23226 Apr 9, 2013
Next, I offer a couple of examples of the impossible. Close to the end of the book of Ether, we find ourselves in the New World.

Again we find ourselves in what is to become upper New York State, near a hill that will one day be named Cumorah and once again we are witnesses to an epic battle. The descendants of Jared (led by King Coriantumr) are about to be annihilated by the armies of an evil king named Shiz. Coriantumr is wounded and carried away to recuperate. Here we pick up the story:

Ether 15:1-2 —“And it came to pass when Coriantumr had recovered of his wounds, he began to remember the words which Ether had spoken unto him. He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly two millions of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.”

Even if only half of the two million mighty men had only one wife and one child, that would put the casualty list at four million, and that doesn’t account for fatalities in Shiz’s army! This number matches about one half of all the military deaths of World War I.24

And all without benefit of modern weapons or a war of many years duration!

The last impossibility is the demise of Shiz himself.

Ether 15:29-31 —“Wherefore, he did pursue them, and on the morrow he did overtake them; and they fought again with the sword. And it came to pass that when they had all fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood. And it came to pass that when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz. And it came to pass that after he had smitten off the head of Shiz, that Shiz raised up on his hands and fell; and after that he had struggled for breath, he died.”

As I try to construct a mind picture of this tableau, I wonder which part of Shiz was struggling for breath, the headless torso or the severed head? Also, the idea that a headless body would raise itself up on its hands is quite ludicrous.

http://www.pfo.org/bomchllg.htm

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23227 Apr 9, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not what I said...
He wrote in Egyptian Hieroglyphs the spoken word of Hebrew... Few men were able to have this knowledge... He was among few that traveled to Egypt as part of their trade most likely because Lehi had a trading business in the area..
That is exactly what you said: "Lehi was an educated man who wrote Hebrew language in Egyptian Hieroglyphs..."

“Truth Seeker ”

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#23228 Apr 9, 2013
All Mormons should see this latest testament of Jesus Christ on YouTube. It's a short video.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#23229 Apr 9, 2013
Trouble in Paradise?

Elder Julio Enrique Dávila of the Seventy left the Mormon church, he found out that it is a fraud

He was a member of the Second Quorum of the Seventy of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) from 1991 to 1996. He was the first person from Colombia to be a general authority of the LDS Church.

Dávila was born in Bucaramanga, Colombia. Dávila was raised primarily in Cartagena. After graduating from college, he moved to Bogotá where he met Mary Zapata, whom he married in 1958. They became the parents of two daughters.

Dávila joined the LDS Church at the age of 36 in 1968. Dávila served as a branch president, and in district presidencies. On 1977-05-23, Dávila became the first president of the Bogotá Stake—the first stake of the LDS Church in Colombia.

In 1972, Dávila began working for the Church Educational System (CES). He became a full-time employee of CES in 1973. From 1981 to 1984, Dávila served as president of the Colombia Cali Mission of the church Dávila was the first Colombian to serve as a mission president in the church.

Dávila served twice as a regional representative, which calling he held when he was called to the Second Quorum of the Seventy. He was called to the Second Quorum of the Seventy in 1991, where he served for five years. Released in 1996, he spent most of his service as a general authority in Latin America. For part of this time, he was in the presidency of the South America North Area of the church.

https://www.facebook.com/LDSFacts

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