LDS Apostle visited Tonga

LDS Apostle visited Tonga

There are 29828 comments on the Matangi Tonga story from Feb 24, 2014, titled LDS Apostle visited Tonga. In it, Matangi Tonga reports that:

Elder Neil L. Andersen, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, During their short stay in Tonga, the Apostle met and counseled church leaders to hasten the work of the Lord in Tonga.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Matangi Tonga.

raider4life

Since: Dec 12

Honolulu, Hi

#1909 May 13, 2014
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
My daughter is coming back to the states from Honolulu in 8 more days. I'm so excited to see her. This is her last week at Hawaii University... short visit here than off to Kansas to see her brother before he is deployed to Kuwait... than a summer job in Texas working as an Art Director/Sports Director for a summer camp... she will have a blast. She has to wait 6 months for residency before it's really practical for her to go back to school.... during that time she's got a job on a Ranch... and she is so excited to learn to ride a horse... lol. But, says she will miss the Stairway to Heaven.:D
congrats on your kids accomplishments and god bless your son as hes getting ready to deploy to kuwait....family, god, country thats what its all about....i rarely hear of locals climbing that stairway to heaven its mostly college students and the very adventurous tourists... the state closed it cause its unsafe but yeah people still go hiking up those stairs but at their own risk....we locals would break those stairs if we climbed it....hihihihihihihi

raider4life

Since: Dec 12

Honolulu, Hi

#1910 May 13, 2014
jestr wrote:
Raider, ouaa, fai mo ke alu kole mali mo ene 'ofefine. If you're in your 20's youre already too old. Go forth and plant your seeds my son
io sai ia tau alu o fkfanau oku fiemau ke kau mokoe he to seed patele nake faifai atu ena ho ngaue fklotu pea ohovale pe oku ke fkvalevalei ha kii choir boy ae siasi.....hihihihihihi

raider4life

Since: Dec 12

Honolulu, Hi

#1911 May 13, 2014
Zorri wrote:
<quoted text>
hahaha..great advice from t topix rev...lol. From t love guru herself i think 'oku maumau'i e ta'ahine..hahaha...loi pe ia raider. Manatu'i e white box e rev moe koloa fktonga..hahaha
koe white box koe puha condom ia i hawaiini but i will have a green basket for our rev and the koloa fktonga oku ui ia heni koe teepilo o maui translated "gift from maui"...1 green basket and all the teepilo o maui is gonna be for our rev...hihihihihihihi...kii fkhela tama e tau rev e toe ai koloa......hahahahaha....mhk

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#1912 May 13, 2014
tongangodz wrote:
<quoted text>
More drivel ....... Wouldn't expect anything less from u!!!!!! Against all your allege claims t church grows n grows as t fiery of opposition rage on t church is true. Miracles happen daily bcoz t priesthood n authority to act in t name of JC is back on t earth. Feel bad for, but u deserve to out n in open rebellion, it won't change a thing. Lol
Yes, the church is so true the leaders have to lie and deceive the members about it's history, and it's teachings. That is how we know it is the true church. It also excommunicates members for telling the truth about it's history. Now in only other church or even business, having to lie is the signs of corruption, and con men. Only in the Mormon church is it the sign of a true prophet. But fooling whoring drinking Tongans doesn't seem to be that hard. Have another drink boys, the more stupid you are, the better the church likes it. LOL!!!

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#1913 May 13, 2014
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
Matthew 7:12
Luke 6:31
Say:
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Why can't it start with you Dana?
I've already back off. Haven't you been reading my posts? It's the Tongns who posting their homo erotic fantasies. I can't stop them from spewing their shit. They don't seem to know anything else. Signs of bad parenting and no education.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#1914 May 13, 2014
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
He just copy and pastes from other peoples opinions from anti-Mormon sites. He doesn't write all that stuff... and he doesn't refer to the Gospel or compelling evidence to support his claims.
Its more than opinion when it is backed by the comments of your leaders. If your own leaders isn't compelling evidence, I don't know what is. And the only time anyone has respond with anything but their perverted fantasies they just copied and pasted from some pro LDS web site. Something from an idiot who clearly didn't or couldn't understand scripture. So what's the difference? It's the LDS church that acts like a door to door vacuum cleaner salesman pedaling something no body wants. They have more reasons to lie and deceive.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#1915 May 14, 2014
jestr wrote:
Raider, ouaa, fai mo ke alu kole mali mo ene 'ofefine. If you're in your 20's youre already too old. Go forth and plant your seeds my son
What woman would be despirate enough to want to marry him? He claims to be LDS so the woman he should be trying to marry are LDS temple worthy members. Yet he is such a self confessed whoring drunk, which will even give him the time of day, let alone marry him? Ten to one being such a whoring drunk if he has a job it's a minimum wage one. One he can barely pay his own way with let alone having the burden of trying to support a woman and children. For a Mormon, he is the bottom of the food chain for even Mormons. Hell, he is still a child in his mind and actions. Only a crack whore would have him.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#1916 May 14, 2014
As the Tongan boy here have only their ignorance and homo fantasies to offer, I don't have to waste my time responding to their stupidity. So I spend my time more creatively trying to education the unwashed LDS masses by showing how the LDS church is for suckers. I'm going to talk about the Book of Abraham and how it shows what a crook Joseph Smith was as a prophet.

False Translation of Book of Abraham

The Book of Abraham comes first on my list, because ultimately the divinity of Joseph's calling rests upon it. If he in fact translated an ancient record of the patriarch Abraham through the power of God, he must have been the prophet and seer he claimed to be. However, if the Book of Abraham is a fabrication, Joseph was a fraud. The same might be said of the Book of Mormon. But since we don't have the golden plates, it is difficult to authenticate whether it is a true record. Fortunately, we do have the original records (for example, Facsimile 1) used by Joseph to translate the Book of Abraham. This gives us what we need to objectively determine whether Joseph's claims are true.

In July of 1835, an Irishman named Michael Chandler brought an exhibit of four Egyptian mummies and papyri to Kirtland Ohio, then the home of the Mormons. The papyri contained Egyptian hieroglyphics which intrigued the prophet Joseph Smith. The meaning of Egyptian hieroglyphics would not become available to the public until 1837, on the publication of John G. Wilkinson's Manners and Customs of the Ancient Egyptians, based on the Rosetta stone. But Joseph was not dependent on such mundane means for translating ancient records.

As prophet and seer of the Church, Joseph was given permission to look at the papyri scrolls in the exhibit, upon which he pronounced a marvelous discovery:

"…with W. W. Phelps and Oliver Cowdery as scribes, I commence the translation of some of the characters or hieroglyphics, and much to our joy found that one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham, another the writings of Joseph of Egypt, etc.- a more full account of which will appear in its place, as I proceed to examine or unfold them. Truly we can say, the Lord is beginning to reveal the abundance of peace and truth." (History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 236).

Astounded by their good fortune in finding not only the writings of the biblical patriarch Abraham, but also those of Joseph of Egypt, several members of the Church pooled their money and bought the papyri and mummies for $2,400. After about seven years, Joseph finished the translation of the scroll which he called the Book of Abraham, but he died before translating the Book of Joseph scroll.

Wilford Woodruff recorded in his diary on February 19, 1842 that the Book of Abraham was literally written by Abraham himself. This would make the Book of Abraham the only existing original copy of a scriptural book. It would also date the record of Abraham (about 2,000 B.C.) to some 500 years prior to the Book of Genesis authored by Moses, between 1440-1400 B.C.

"Joseph the Seer has presented us some of the Book of Abraham which was written by his own hand but hid from the knowledge of man for the last four thousand years but has now come to light through the mercy of God." (Diary of Wilford Woodruff, entry of February 19, 1842, LDS archives; also in Jay M. Todd, The Saga of the Book of Abraham (Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Co., 1969), p. 221)

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#1917 May 14, 2014
The Book of Abraham is believed by the LDS church to have been written by Abraham himself, as shown in the preface to the Book of Abraham:

"THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM

TRANSLATED FROM THE PAPYRUS, BY JOSEPH SMITH

A Translation of some ancient Records, that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt.- The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus."

With the discovery of the Rosetta Stone, it finally became possible for scholars to decipher the Egyptian language. This in turn enabled the experts to objectively evaluate Joseph's translation of the papyri. The papyri themselves were thought to have been destroyed in the "Great Chicago Fire" in 1871. However, Egyptologists could still study the three Facsimiles included in the Book of Abraham as well as Joseph's translation of these Facsimiles. The first such study was performed by M. Theodule Deveria of the Louvre in Paris. Deveria was able to decipher the names and titles of various Egyptian gods and goddesses, as well as the name of the deceased Egyptian for whom the scroll had originally been prepared. Regarding Facsimile No. 3 he wrote:

"The deceased led by Ma into the presence of Osiris. His name is Horus, as may be seen in the prayer which is at the bottom of the picture, and which is addressed to the divinities of the four cardinal points." (Voyage au Pays des Mormons (Paris, 1860).

Deveria recognized the three Facsimiles as common Egyptian funerary documents and concluded that Joseph's interpretations of the Facsimiles was nonsense.

In 1912, Reverend Franklin S. Spalding sent copies of the three Facsimiles from the Book of Abraham to some of the world's leading scholars of Egyptology. All eight of the scholars that responded were unanimous in their condemnation of Joseph's translations as being incorrect. For example, Dr. Arthur Mace, Assistant Curator for the Department of Egyptian Art of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York explained:

"The Book of Abraham, it is hardly necessary to say, is a pure fabrication. Cuts 1 and 3 are inaccurate copies of well known scenes on funeral papyri, and cut 2 is a copy of one of the magical discs which in the late Egyptian period were placed under the heads of mummies. There were about forty of these latter known in museums and they are all very similar in character. Joseph Smith's interpretation of these cuts is a farrago of nonsense from beginning to end. Egyptian characters can now be read almost as easily as Greek, and five minutes' study in an Egyptian gallery of any museum should be enough to convince any educated man of the clumsiness of the imposture." (F.S. Spalding, Joseph Smith Jr., As a Translator, 1912, p. 27)

Dr. A. H. Sayce from Oxford, England concurred:

"It is difficult to deal seriously with Joseph Smith's impudent fraud. The fac simile from the Book of Abraham No. 2 is an ordinary hypocephalus, but the hieroglyphics upon it have been copied so ignorantly that hardly one of them is correct. I need scarcely say that Kolob, &c., are unknown to the Egyptian language. Smith has turned the goddess into a king and Osiris into Abraham." (Ibid., p. 23)

Dr. Flinders Petrie of London University wrote:

"They are copies of Egyptian subjects of which I have seen dozens of examples. They are centuries later than Abraham. The attempts to guess a meaning for them in the professed explanations are too absurd to be noticed. It may be safely said that there is not one single word that is true in these explanations." (Ibid., p. 24)

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#1918 May 14, 2014
Dr. James H. Breasted of the Haskell Oriental Museum, University of Chicago, declared:

"It will be seen, then, that if Joseph Smith could read ancient Egyptian writing, his ability to do so had no connection with the decipherment of hieroglyphics by European scholars…The three fac-similes in question represent equipment which will be and has been found in unnumbered thousands of Egyptian graves…The point, then, is that in publishing these fac-similes of Egyptian documents as part of an unique revelation to Abraham, Joseph Smith was attributing to Abraham not three unique documents of which no other copies exist, but was attributing to Abraham a series of documents which were the common property of a whole nation of people who employed them in every human burial, which they prepared…

Fac-simile Number 2 represents a little disc…commonly called among Egyptologists a hypocephalus…These did not come into use until the late centuries just before the Christian era. They did not appear in any Egyptian burials until over a thousand years after the time of Abraham. They were unknown in Egypt in Abraham's day.

Fac-simile Number 3…This scene again is depicted innumerable times in the funeral papyri, coffins and tomb and temple walls of Egypt. No representation of it thus far found in Egypt, though we have thousands of them, dates earlier than 500 years after Abraham's age; and it may be stated as certain that the scene was unknown until about 500 years after Abraham's day." (Ibid., pp. 24-27)

Thus, based on the evidence provided by the Facsimiles alone, scholars overwhelmingly concurred that Joseph's translation of these Facsimiles was incorrect. Further, it was determined that Abraham could not have possessed these Facsimiles because at least in the case of Nos. 2 and 3, they did not exist until long after Abraham's day.

Egyptologists noted another significant problem with the Facsimiles. There were sections of the drawings which were clearly false reconstructions. For example, Dr. Albert Lythgoe, head of the Department of Egyptian Art at the New York Metropolitan Museum, concluded that the reconstructed parts of Facsimile No. 1 were incorrect.

While the original papyrus had not yet been discovered at the time Lythgoe did his assessment, he nonetheless noted problems with certain aspects of the rendition. For example, Lythgoe pointed out that what Joseph interpreted as a wicked priest attempting to sacrifice Abraham was in fact Anubus:

"…the god Anubus, bending over the mummy, was shown with a human and strangely un-Egyptian head, instead of a jackal's head usual to the scene. And a knife had been drawn into the god's hand." (New York Times, Magazine Section, December, 1912).

This echoed the observations of Deveria a half-century prior, who also noted that the bird in Facsimile No. 1, to correctly represent the soul of Osiris, "should have a human head."

In Joseph's interpretation of Facsimile No. 1, the bird was the "Angel of the Lord". Joseph said the Facsimile depicted "Abraham fastened upon an altar," being offered up as a sacrifice by a false priest of Elkenah. The figures under the altar were various gods: Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, Korash, and Pharaoh. This is referenced in both the Facsimile and the text of the Book of Abraham 1:12-14.

http://20truths.info/mormon/abraham.html

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#1919 May 14, 2014
In reality, this is an embalming scene showing Osiris lying on a lion-couch. The actual translation of Facsimile No. 1 is:

"Osiris shall be conveyed into the Great Pool of Khons -- and likewise Osiris Hor, justified, born to Tikhebyt, justified -- after his arms have been placed on his heart and the Breathing permit (which [Isis] made and has writing on its inside and outside) has been wrapped in royal linen and placed under his left arm near his heart; the rest of the mummy-bandages should be wrapped over it. The man for whom this book was copied will breathe forever and ever as the bas of the gods do." (Klaus Baer, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1968, pp. 119-20)

Contrary to what Joseph claimed, the four canopic jars under the lion-couch actually refer to the grandsons of Osiris: Amset, Hapi, Duamutef, and Qebehsenuef. Underneath these figures is the crocodile god Sobek (Charles Larson, By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus, p. 102). Thus, every detail of Joseph's interpretation was incorrect.

In presenting the Facsimiles as part of the Book of Abraham, Joseph apparently kept to himself that some of the figures and explanatory text were not even from the original Facsimiles. These were actually drawn in by Joseph.

It is easy to see where the missing portions existed and what Joseph drew in their place. In these locations, we find that Joseph copied from the Book of Breathings and the Book of the Dead scrolls, showing a complete lack of understanding of the Egyptian language. As with Facsimile No. 1, none of the reconstructions drawn in by Joseph are vindicated by the study of Egyptology.

For example, the upside-down creature in Figure 7 was drawn in by Joseph to represent the "form of a dove". This creature should actually have been an ithyphallic serpent with legs. The central figure of the Facsimile ordinarily has four ram heads in an authentic hypocephalus, but Joseph appears to have simply copied the two-headed Egyptian god Par directly above it in Figure 2. For the boat depicted in Figure 3 to the upper right, this should actually be two boats, a small one above a larger one. What Joseph did, however, was to copy a boat figure from the Book of Joseph papyrus instead. This copy is in fact a drawing of the sun-god in his solar bark, and is improper for a hypocephalus.(Charles Larson, By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus, p. 105-9).

Another piece of the puzzle fell into place in 1938, when Dr. Sidney Sperry allowed the publication of portions of Joseph's Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar. The Grammar was a working document used by Joseph and his scribes during the translation of the Book of Abraham. Sperry had discovered the Grammar three years prior in the official church history vault, where apparently they were deposited in 1855 and forgotten about. In 1965, a microfilm copy of the entire work was leaked to the Tanners of Utah Lighthouse Ministry. It was only in 1966 when the Tanners published the reprint, that the public was finally given access to the complete record. The Grammar quickly proved to be a problem for the LDS church, and it is understandable why they were hesitant to publish it themselves.

http://20truths.info/mormon/abraham.html

Yes, Smith was so ignorant even the church was afraid to publish in fear of being exposed for the fraud it is. I understand the second biggest Mormon church the Community of Christ has rejected it as scripture. You more you read the more you see what a scam the LDS church is.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#1920 May 14, 2014
raider4life wrote:
<quoted text> io sai ia tau alu o fkfanau oku fiemau ke kau mokoe he to seed patele nake faifai atu ena ho ngaue fklotu pea ohovale pe oku ke fkvalevalei ha kii choir boy ae siasi.....hihihihihihi
hahaha...fai 'e koe e me'a koe kai pakupaku..fhk.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#1921 May 14, 2014
raider4life wrote:
<quoted text> koe white box koe puha condom ia i hawaiini but i will have a green basket for our rev and the koloa fktonga oku ui ia heni koe teepilo o maui translated "gift from maui"...1 green basket and all the teepilo o maui is gonna be for our rev...hihihihihihihi...kii fkhela tama e tau rev e toe ai koloa......hahahahaha....mhk
ey tuku e lea kovi kihe Rev na'a loloa ho'o mou'i..lol. FHK@ ur white box...koe me'a pe ia ho'o fkkaukau ee..nothing else..lol

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#1922 May 14, 2014
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
are you talking in tongan or the honolulu slang? When my daughter in law came out here I was like huh... what... lol? She's a native from the honolulu island.
so sorry dear but plse excuse the language...its tongan..lol. Wow ur daughter at Hawaii university ha? A tongan professor was there afew years back by the name of Dr Halapua..i think he left for Tonga n now a politician.. But congratz! U must b proud n so u should b cos ur a great mum...one can tell from t accomplishment of ur children. Bless u

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#1923 May 14, 2014
*university of Hawaii ..sorry

Since: Dec 13

Location hidden

#1924 May 14, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the church is so true the leaders have to lie and deceive the members about it's history, and it's teachings. That is how we know it is the true church. It also excommunicates members for telling the truth about it's history. Now in only other church or even business, having to lie is the signs of corruption, and con men. Only in the Mormon church is it the sign of a true prophet. But fooling whoring drinking Tongans doesn't seem to be that hard. Have another drink boys, the more stupid you are, the better the church likes it. LOL!!!
That's what your mouth says, u r not acredible n t same w your sources. No fool, it is not t word of men that manifest t truth to us, it is by t power of t Holy Ghost, where Moroni declares in his writings in t BoM, Moroni 10:4, By t power of t Holy Ghost ye may t truth of all things. God has provided a way for His children to know n understand t truth, not by u or any other man/men, but t Holy Ghost.

He, JC, declared to his disciples prior to leaving them after 40 odd days of tarring w them, that He will leave them t Comforter or Holy Ghost, who will remind them of all things that He taught n testify to them of many things to come. So, we aren't just left here to figure it out on our own, we have t spirit to direct us n t His t leaders of His kingdom, here on earth.

As far as drinking n whoring, that's a reflection of my free agency to chose n not t church, I told u this, my choice not to govern myself properly only reflects bad on me, n worst on u, coz u try to use it as if t church has anything to do w it, completely ignorant.

It's funny how try to say, have another drink, that's how t church likes it,.....hihihi..... Lol ... U r so childish, now you're spokes person for t church, u loathe ... get a life n get off our grill, we'd like to fart w out u up our arz ... Lmaooooo!!!!

raider4life

Since: Dec 12

Honolulu, Hi

#1925 May 14, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I've already back off. Haven't you been reading my posts? It's the Tongns who posting their homo erotic fantasies. I can't stop them from spewing their shit. They don't seem to know anything else. Signs of bad parenting and no education.
you the one who started the homo fantasy $hit and now you complaining after you got called out by n.s. on your homophobic language and now the man w the trinity personality is now back to being a preacher man....you not right gay boy

raider4life

Since: Dec 12

Honolulu, Hi

#1926 May 14, 2014
Zorri wrote:
<quoted text>
hahaha...fai 'e koe e me'a koe kai pakupaku..fhk.
watch it woman

raider4life

Since: Dec 12

Honolulu, Hi

#1927 May 14, 2014
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the church is so true the leaders have to lie and deceive the members about it's history, and it's teachings. That is how we know it is the true church. It also excommunicates members for telling the truth about it's history. Now in only other church or even business, having to lie is the signs of corruption, and con men. Only in the Mormon church is it the sign of a true prophet. But fooling whoring drinking Tongans doesn't seem to be that hard. Have another drink boys, the more stupid you are, the better the church likes it. LOL!!!
people get excommunicated for their lies and whats wrong w a glass of wine now and then i also promote the use of marijuana....hihihihihihihi

raider4life

Since: Dec 12

Honolulu, Hi

#1928 May 14, 2014
Zorri wrote:
<quoted text>
ey tuku e lea kovi kihe Rev na'a loloa ho'o mou'i..lol. FHK@ ur white box...koe me'a pe ia ho'o fkkaukau ee..nothing else..lol
e kai ke fkaonga'i e white box ia koe te ta fuhu tae leta taua...ko koe ke ngahi kovii....hihihihihi

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