Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 132,233

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130944 May 18, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure He is. We all are. We are spirit clothes in flesh.
Well I guess there are thousands of ways to interpret what the bible says. And we can see believers do interpret it very differently. It is as if no holy ghost is guiding them, their sect is.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130945 May 18, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
That is if you assume that we will inevitably sin. Jesus commanded us to be perfect. He wouldn't command it if it weren't possible, so this leads me to think that we sin because of our choices. You aren't born with sin. Sin happens because you choose not to be perfect. So I don't think you are born "diseased"
I hope you have that verse handy? I really do not recall Jesus saying we can be perfect. If he did, he is seriously unrealistic.
But Yes and Amen claims he never sins, so.......

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130946 May 18, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Suffering is the direct result of the presence of sin, and the absence of God. The conditions will be the opposite in Heaven, therefore no suffering (as we know it today). This is why I asked what the poster meant by suffering. We may feel some sadness for those that are not with us there because of the choices they made. This may could be considered suffering, but the first time I read the question I assumed the poster meant sickness, pain, etc due to the previous question being about that subject.
Is there sin in heaven? If one has free will in heaven, I would assume some are sinning,thus your rule of suffering would apply to heaven.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130947 May 18, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
To claim everything just happens is irrational.
I figured you would bog yourself down on that expression. It is an expression that shows things happen beyond our control. Things happen due to nature, and it is not controlled by any particular being. Thus it just happens. Earthquakes just happen. No one is making it happen, it happens due to how the earth is, period. So when an earthquake kills thousands of people, it is not due to sin, it is due to the earth moving.
Think of all the massive suffering in Haiti due to that big earthquake. It is not due to sin, it is due to the earth moving. It just happens.

Obviously suffering can come directly from someone's actions. But I thought we made it clear, we are not just talking about mans interventions. When you claim sin is the cause, I think you are claiming none direct actions of man. Am I correct? If not, then explain the suffering caused by earthquakes.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130948 May 18, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know they have no purpose?
Well for the purposes of your argument, they are useless. They are useless to us.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130949 May 18, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
No, but the topic of the previous question was. Way to dodge
I was trying to make a point. That point is, you keep claiming the holy ghost is needed to really understand. Well I do not believe, thus I get no holy ghost instructions. Thus I am asking you to tell me what this ghost tells you. It is not in a book. And acting as if my questions are going to be answered by this book makes no sense.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130950 May 18, 2014
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep using this parent analogy for god. It doesn't work. My parents are real, flesh and blood people. They are flawed. I now know many, many things they were totally wrong about.
But god is a perfect being, by definition. He is under no obligation to be limited in the ways that parents are limited. For example, god would have known all along how a simple vaccine could prevent millions or billions of deaths over time. Yet the Bible tells us nothing of vaccines and god has never came down to earth to share this rather important bit of information.
Now, I cannot expect my mother to have known some great scientific idea that was not yet discovered and passed it down to me.
But god?
The parent analogy does not work.
God is the parent that supposedly has the power to create a cure for cancer, but withholds that cure so you learn a lessen buster.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130951 May 18, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
What I succeeded in, is answering the question and proving that humans learn the gospel of Jesus Christ milk before meat. This is a prime example of what Jesus went through when teaching.
You simply claim this box must be checked off so you get a reward. It does not explain why it is rational or fair to expect faith. I fully understand it is expected. Why do you think I am asking for a rational reason to expect it? You just keep failing to give me a single reason it is fair.
The god is expecting faith when giving no evidence. Well how is that fair? You seem to be claiming it is fair because it is a rule. Sorry, but that is not an answer.

I feel I know the supposed gospel better than most believers. So spare me the milk before meat slogan. All I hear is, believe it or else.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130952 May 18, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
What I succeeded in, is answering the question and proving that humans learn the gospel of Jesus Christ milk before meat. This is a prime example of what Jesus went through when teaching.
"Proving"? NO, you made a claim that has zero evidence of fact. You cannot even back it up with logic or reason. You cannot show it is a rational expectation. You cannot show it is a fair expectation.
I suppose "fair" is the key word you fail to see here. When a reasonable person asks for a reason for an expectation, they expect an answer that contains something to show it is fair and just. I did not realize I need to explain this to you. But I guess you just blindly follow rules and do not ask questions. Well that is a dangerous thing. It is the ingredient that is key to atrocities.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#130953 May 18, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>God is the parent that supposedly has the power to create a cure for cancer, but withholds that cure so you learn a lessen buster.
Exactly. This is why such a being would not be worthy of worship even if it was real.

Christians have to twist logic into pretzels to have a god that is all powerful and perfect and simultaneously make that being fit into the reality they observe. When the facts are adequately removed from their noses they practice denial, as in denying evolution. When the facts are right in their grills, as in cancer, they have to come up with weird theodicies that allow god to be perfect but at the same time allow people to die miserable deaths in torturous pain.

The simple solution is: no god. Now deal with reality. Instead, they plop this ridiculous child's story on top of reality and make things that much worse.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#130954 May 18, 2014
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
+1 to this.
While absolute knowledge of reality on a 1:1 scale is probably impossible, we CAN have knowledge that is better or more useful. When you go down the road of reason you end up with exactly the list you posted here.
This is the product of centuries of rigorous, peer-tested observations, thoughts, and experiments. And without this process we'd still be dying of polio and burning witches.
Yes, religion has been a real stumbling block to progress.

It wasn't that long ago when those people with mental illnesses were considered to be possessed by demons and cures were sought within the pages of the Bible.

Thankfully, the light of science has illuminated the dark places where superstition and ju-ju hide.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#130955 May 18, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Is there sin in heaven? If one has free will in heaven, I would assume some are sinning,thus your rule of suffering would apply to heaven.
If free will exists in heaven then people will certainly have the option to sin if they choose.

Who knows? Maybe after a few millennia of non-stop hosannas and praising his deity even curious will get bored.

Perhaps, like Lucifer, he will rebel against his god and be cast out of heaven.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#130956 May 18, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>God is the parent that supposedly has the power to create a cure for cancer, but withholds that cure so you learn a lessen buster.
But it's OK because he loves us.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#130957 May 18, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>"Proving"? NO, you made a claim that has zero evidence of fact. You cannot even back it up with logic or reason. You cannot show it is a rational expectation. You cannot show it is a fair expectation.
I suppose "fair" is the key word you fail to see here. When a reasonable person asks for a reason for an expectation, they expect an answer that contains something to show it is fair and just. I did not realize I need to explain this to you. But I guess you just blindly follow rules and do not ask questions. Well that is a dangerous thing. It is the ingredient that is key to atrocities.
"Those who can be made to believe absurdities can be made to commit atrocities"

Voltaire

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130958 May 18, 2014
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Speaking of...

So basically god and the jews make all these covenants through the OT. It happens many times, often as if it had not happened before. This is evidence that these are eclectic stories from different areas and times being hammered together.

Now, if you remember your OT god had just finished making mighty covenants with the Hebrews when they fell into what was essentially slavery under the Egyptians. Doesn't happen overnight either. I don't remember how long, but it was something like a few decades or generations in which the Hebrews were living miserable lives under the boot of Pharaoh. Then suddenly god comes and speaks to Moses and gets the whole Exodus story going.

What the hell was god doing between the time he made his covenant with the Hebrews and the time in which he helped Moses free the Hebrews? Isn't it strange that they would have this weird period in which thy suffered so badly directly following a time in which they were right at god's side? Did god take a vacation?

Just another example of how the Bible makes the most sense when you read it in historical context using critical methods and NOT as a revealed scripture. It makes perfect sense as a disparate collection of ancient myths and makes very little sense when thought of as a coherent story.
Can you give examples? I don't know when you are talking about with your first paragraph.

Do you remember why they were in Egypt? And how the slavery part came to be?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130959 May 18, 2014
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Yet both periods are ruled by the same god, right? If god could make a time now that we have a "higher law" why not back then? Humans were the same 2500 years ago as they are today. Very, very little difference at all except culturally.

But this is all might god. Seems like he was always just as people thought he was...just as if we invented him.

Right?
Smh
The higher law was instituted with Adam. It wasn't taken away until the period before Moses. The lesser law was instituted after the Exodus. Remember?
You don't understand the scriptures beyond scratching the surface, but you don't really listen after you have asked a question. You just look for the next thing to try to pick apart or discount.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130960 May 18, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>It does not matter that the supposed murders happened in your lifetime or not. You condoned the murder of three thousand people. It was immoral then, as it would be immoral today.

Now I see you feel you know in an absolute way what your god would do today.
As demonstrated by the words of other Christians here when asked if they would kill for god today, they say yes. I cannot remember your answer, or if you dodged it.

People today feel their god wants them to kill. It happened on 9/11 and continues.
So I just wonder if your prophet claimed that god told him you should kill, would you do it?
It does matter. Different sets of people, in different time periods, with different cultures, and different surroundings, act (surprisingly) different.
It matters which time these people lived because they were under different sets of laws. The lesser law was more strict and allowed less freedom because they had proved they couldn't handle this freedom. All this was in preparation for the coming of the Son of God. He then instituted again the higher law and told us it would be lost, restored, and then never again be removed.
Now we live in a time once again where God speaks to man. And this spokesman will not command us to kill. He has commanded us to present the gospel to all and to move on if it is denied.
spaceship

Roseville, CA

#130961 May 18, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Smh
The higher law was instituted with Adam. It wasn't taken away until the period before Moses. The lesser law was instituted after the Exodus. Remember?
You don't understand the scriptures beyond scratching the surface, but you don't really listen after you have asked a question. You just look for the next thing to try to pick apart or discount.
What higher law are you talking about?

Explain Romans 5:13

" Yes, people sinned even before the law was given. But it was not counted as sin because there was not yet any law to break."

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130962 May 18, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>

Now we live in a time once again where God speaks to man. And this spokesman will not command us to kill. He has commanded us to present the gospel to all and to move on if it is denied.
Are you stating that as a fact, an opinion or just something you accept because you've been told it by other people who also cannot even begin to substantiate it?
"God told me to..." is the cliche grounds for "not guilty by means of insanity." Delusional, much?

“Justice Sweet”

Since: Jan 14

Mount Vernon

#130963 May 18, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
That is your self serving view ,ignoring the fact that atheists are considered the least trustworthy group in America.
Their attempts to eliminate God are futile. Look at all the maladies that afflict atheists.
In spite of the atheist's effort to eliminate God, try as they might, they can not eliminate Him from their psyche,as He is always there to remind you of your errant ways...
The atheist condition is not funny,it is pitiful as is exemplified by their individual moral code.
They have polluted and defiled themselves , condoning incest , beastiality , necrophelia and free and unreined sex begining at age 10....
That is a disatrous recipe for any group or society....
Who would you find more trustworthy ? A group that admits doubt or a group that denies doubt ?

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