Mo CCW misinformation

Mo CCW misinformation

Posted in the Rolla Forum

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Gunny

Belton, MO

#1 Jan 24, 2012
Last evening I had responded to a poster on the "gerttys" topic, the poster seemed to be misinformed when he said it was illegal to carry a firearm into a bar with a CCW permit. I am not sure what happened to the topic, I am guessing the moderators removed it for some reason.
The only 2 places it is illegal to carry a weapon, by a MO CCW permit holder in the state of Missouri is a FEDERAL government owned building (example: post office) and a bus/metrolink in St. Louis.
Any other place has to ask you to leave, and you have to refuse before the police are summonded, for it to even be an infraction (subject to fine and possible suspension of licensce). If you comply to the request to leave, no law has been broken, no infraction has occured. This includes schools, banks, restaurants that serve alcohol, bars, church any place that has a legal size "no gun signs". Any place other than those mentioned in the 2nd paragraph of this post.
Any CCW instructor who teaches otherwise needs a refresher course him or herself on MRSO 571 statutes, or is interpreting the law for what they WISH it to be instead of what it actually is.
I do not recommend guns and alcohol from a personal opinion stand point. If I am going to drink I prefer to stay home and do so. But if I choose to go out to eat (example:Applebees) and possibly have a couple beers (example: insert the name of your favorite drinking establishment HERE) you are legal to do so armed, providing ofcourse you have a Mo CCW permit.
As of August 28 2010 it is no longer against the law to be intoxicated and in posession of a firearm under Mo law, UNLESS you are INTOXICATED and discharge/brandish such weapon in a NEGLEGANT AND UNLAWFUL MANNER. Intoxicated and defending oneself in a lawful manner (self defense) does not qualify as BOTH things need to happen for it to be illegal.
Concealed means concealed. If you are doing it right no one will know. And Mo lawmakers have provided for your rights to self defense IF someone would become aware of your decision to protect yourself.
Gunny

Belton, MO

#2 Jan 25, 2012
Someone learned how to use the judge function on a post. You forgot one though, the one that says, YOUR RIGHT.
Anyone wishing correct information should consider visiting missouricarry.com . There is alot of good information/correct information there.
Hiredgun

Kansas City, MO

#3 Jan 25, 2012
Who around rolla offers the ccw class that is and has the knowledge in what they are teaching? I dont want someone that is just doing it for the money.
john

Belton, MO

#4 Jan 25, 2012
Gunny wrote:
Last evening I had responded to a poster on the "gerttys" topic, the poster seemed to be misinformed when he said it was illegal to carry a firearm into a bar with a CCW permit. I am not sure what happened to the topic, I am guessing the moderators removed it for some reason.
The only 2 places it is illegal to carry a weapon, by a MO CCW permit holder in the state of Missouri is a FEDERAL government owned building (example: post office) and a bus/metrolink in St. Louis.
Any other place has to ask you to leave, and you have to refuse before the police are summonded, for it to even be an infraction (subject to fine and possible suspension of licensce). If you comply to the request to leave, no law has been broken, no infraction has occured. This includes schools, banks, restaurants that serve alcohol, bars, church any place that has a legal size "no gun signs". Any place other than those mentioned in the 2nd paragraph of this post.
Any CCW instructor who teaches otherwise needs a refresher course him or herself on MRSO 571 statutes, or is interpreting the law for what they WISH it to be instead of what it actually is.
I do not recommend guns and alcohol from a personal opinion stand point. If I am going to drink I prefer to stay home and do so. But if I choose to go out to eat (example:Applebees) and possibly have a couple beers (example: insert the name of your favorite drinking establishment HERE) you are legal to do so armed, providing ofcourse you have a Mo CCW permit.
As of August 28 2010 it is no longer against the law to be intoxicated and in posession of a firearm under Mo law, UNLESS you are INTOXICATED and discharge/brandish such weapon in a NEGLEGANT AND UNLAWFUL MANNER. Intoxicated and defending oneself in a lawful manner (self defense) does not qualify as BOTH things need to happen for it to be illegal.
Concealed means concealed. If you are doing it right no one will know. And Mo lawmakers have provided for your rights to self defense IF someone would become aware of your decision to protect yourself.
u need to get a refresher it is a felony in Missouri to be intoxicated and have a loaded firearm
Gunny

Belton, MO

#5 Jan 25, 2012
john wrote:
<quoted text>
u need to get a refresher it is a felony in Missouri to be intoxicated and have a loaded firearm
Missouri Revised Statutes
Chapter 571
Weapons Offenses
Section 571.030

August 28, 2011

Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties .
571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

(1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or

(2) Sets a spring gun; or

(3) Discharges or shoots a firearm into a dwelling house, a railroad train, boat, aircraft, or motor vehicle as defined in section 302.010, or any building or structure used for the assembling of people; or

(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or

(5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense;

I believe sub-section 5 will cover what we are talking about. If you will notice the word AND, it will confirm my previous post as both NEED to happen to make it illegal to be in posession while being INTOXICATED.
This law changed 8/11/2010. Prior laws have no bearing as to what CURRENT law is, and neither do your personal feelings.
PROVE me wrong call Kris Koster get the Mo Attorney General's opinion. I KNOW what the law is.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710...
Or just go to missouri revised statutes in your bing bar and see 571.030
Gunny

Belton, MO

#6 Jan 25, 2012
Hiredgun wrote:
Who around rolla offers the ccw class that is and has the knowledge in what they are teaching? I dont want someone that is just doing it for the money.
This gentleman is not really close but I highly recommend him. He is located North of the Gerald/ Beaufort area if I remember correctly. I wish I had known about him when I was looking for my CCW instructor.
He is one of the most knowledgeable in the state of Mo., on CCW and castle doctrine laws in MO. You will get your moneys worth from his class.
The only other person I would possibly recommend with maybe more knowledge would be Kevin Jammison in KC. He practically wrote Missouris CCW law. But I do not believe he offers a class, though his CD and expertise will be used in the classrom portion of Armed Missouris instruction.
Good luck be safe
Gunny

Belton, MO

#7 Jan 25, 2012
Hiredgun wrote:
Who around rolla offers the ccw class that is and has the knowledge in what they are teaching? I dont want someone that is just doing it for the money.
Sorry I forgot to post the link in above post.http://armedmissouri.com/ home.htm
Gunny

Belton, MO

#9 Jan 25, 2012
Hiredgun wrote:
Who around rolla offers the ccw class that is and has the knowledge in what they are teaching? I dont want someone that is just doing it for the money.
Wally,Nic, Chris at armedmissouri.com
Located on hwy 50 in Mt Sterling Mo.(between drake and Linn Mo.)
Their next CCW class is on Saturday Feb 18th, and one on Feb 19th.
If they are too far for you to travel or if you need someone closer you might check out missouricarry.com
They have list of certified instructors across Mo. And I am sure someone on the forums can help you.
I carry

Belton, MO

#10 Jan 25, 2012
Gunny you rock, I have saved my ass a few times with packing my desert eagle. It's a game changer when you even up the odds.
Hiredgun

Kansas City, MO

#12 Jan 26, 2012
Hey thank you gunny for the information. It will be put to good use. Thank you again
Pianoz4u

Rolla, MO

#16 Feb 13, 2013
Gunny; I heard that Rick Lisenbe teaches and certicies CCW. Any thoughts on the Sheriff?
Abc

United States

#17 Feb 13, 2013
It is illegal to have a concealed weapon at any bar. I just took the class 2 weeks ago with all the updated info.
http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/MSHPWeb/Publicatio...

Since: Feb 13

Rolla, MO

#18 Feb 13, 2013
It is so great to see that there are still people around here that are still informed about the gun laws in this state. I have a thread on here in which people have been getting absolutely stupid in their comments at times. Thank you so much for bringing out the facts.

Since: Feb 13

Rolla, MO

#19 Feb 13, 2013
In case you are interested in commenting on my thread, it is called "Open Carry - For Or Against?". It would be nice to hear from someone else that knows what they're talking about.
fact is

Lilburn, GA

#20 Feb 13, 2013
no its not, not if you have a CCW permit and are legal drinking age
john wrote:
<quoted text>
u need to get a refresher it is a felony in Missouri to be intoxicated and have a loaded firearm
MOGunny

Belton, MO

#21 Feb 14, 2013
Pianoz4u wrote:
Gunny; I heard that Rick Lisenbe teaches and certicies CCW. Any thoughts on the Sheriff?
I do not personally know Rick. I was not even aware he was offering the class. I am sure he is a fine upstanding person and I probably wouldn't hesitate if he met the criteria I have for selecting any firearms class.
Here is somethings one should do when choosing a CCW class.
1. Call and talk to the instructor. Try to get to know them on an informal basis, ask them specifically what their class will entail.
2. Ask them for a list of former students who you might be able to contact about their class and see what their responses are. Some instructors will keep a list of former student who willingly provide feedback for prospective students of the instructor.(Just remember not all instructors are comfortable giving
private/privledged information about their students, so it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. I also respect my privacy.
3. Talk to family and friends and get reccomendations from them.
4. Go here http://www.missouricarry.com/ join the forums and ask we will not lead you astray.
Good luck.
MOGunny

Belton, MO

#22 Feb 14, 2013
Abc wrote:
It is illegal to have a concealed weapon at any bar. I just took the class 2 weeks ago with all the updated info.
http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/MSHPWeb/Publicatio...
Man, where to start,.
While I do not doubt you took the class 2 weeks ago. I will have to disagree with your understanding of Mo law. I will referece the link as to which you posted.
On pg 4 of the MSHP publication who linked, you will see a list of places where a CCW endorsement does not AUTHORIZE (authorize being the key word here) you to carry into. With #5 being a bar (a Bar, without constent actually).
If you will then look at line 2 in the next paragraph it states;
" Carrying a concealed firearm into any location specified above is not a criminal act". It is not illegal.
In line 3 of the same paragraph I am going to add a few word into their quote, marked by everything in parenthesis, you will notice it says. " However it can,(CAN being the key word here)denied acess and may,(or may be not) be removed for doing so.(it would be upto the person in charge of that establishments, choosing).

Line 4 "If you are asked to leave AND refuse and a police officer is summoned." (Then and only then, you would be subject to to infractions provided by law. The person in charge HAS to ask you to leave before the police are summoned.)

Go back to the very first post in this topic and re-read. Go to the Mo revised statutes and read. Our laws are written in a very specific way, for very specific purposes. And for me to sit here and try to explain them would be a very LONG read, not to mention I do not have the time. They rely upon key words for one to completely understand them, and I understand that they are difficult to understand. But let me asure you I understand these laws, I have worked with lawmakers and other advocates for the last 5 years to help get some of these laws passed.

If you have mis-understood the list of 17 places where a CCW endorsement does not authorize you to carry, let me assure you. You are not alone. Alot of instructors are equally at fault,(not saying yours was, it could have been a misunderstanding) and they themselves do not understand the actual law. Neither does a portion of our LEO's.

One of the best things, anyone could do to further their knowledge and understanding of these laws would be to go to http://www.missouricarry.com/ join the forums and read, read , and read any and all topics where particular laws are discussed.

I will check back here every so often and try to answer any questions anyone may have.
Good day to you.
BRBack

Rolla, MO

#23 Feb 14, 2013
Gunny wrote:
<quoted text>
Missouri Revised Statutes
Chapter 571
Weapons Offenses
Section 571.030
August 28, 2011
Unlawful use of weapons--exceptions--penalties .
571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
(1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or
(2) Sets a spring gun; or
(3) Discharges or shoots a firearm into a dwelling house, a railroad train, boat, aircraft, or motor vehicle as defined in section 302.010, or any building or structure used for the assembling of people; or
(4) Exhibits, in the presence of one or more persons, any weapon readily capable of lethal use in an angry or threatening manner; or
(5) Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his or her person, while he or she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense;
I believe sub-section 5 will cover what we are talking about. If you will notice the word AND, it will confirm my previous post as both NEED to happen to make it illegal to be in posession while being INTOXICATED.
This law changed 8/11/2010. Prior laws have no bearing as to what CURRENT law is, and neither do your personal feelings.
PROVE me wrong call Kris Koster get the Mo Attorney General's opinion. I KNOW what the law is.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710...
Or just go to missouri revised statutes in your bing bar and see 571.030
This was posted last year and I notice the website now shows it was updated August 2012, instead of the 2011 version here. Were there any substantial changes between this and the current version?
MOGunny

Belton, MO

#24 Feb 14, 2013
BRBack wrote:
<quoted text>
This was posted last year and I notice the website now shows it was updated August 2012, instead of the 2011 version here. Were there any substantial changes between this and the current version?
None that I am aware of.
I have not looked at the updated version that closely, I usually refer to the Mo Revised Statutes. I generally do not trust second hand information from websites, phone apps, or word of mouth. But I do not see the MSHP putting out a publication with wrong information. They are very good at keeping current with missouris gun laws and their meaning.

Missouri revised statutes can be found here.
http://www.moga.mo.gov/STATUTES/STATUTES.HTM
Weapons offenses and ccw law among other things can be found in chapter 571 and Mo's castle doctrine law is covered in chapter 563.
Linda

Rolla, MO

#25 Feb 14, 2013
Ron Dishman is going to start trying to teach people on how too fire a BB gun.

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