America Serves Time - under Obama's n...

America Serves Time - under Obama's new forced labor plan

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“See hear now”

Since: Nov 08

Rogvegas

#1 Nov 6, 2008
Details are now coming out of how Obama plans to pay for all the things he has promised.

The key component is a new plan called "America Serves". Here it is on his "transitional government" web page:

http://www.change.gov/americaserves/

Like the Gulag in the Soviet Union, americans will be forced to work 100 hours for federal government work programs each and every year. Participation in the program is mandatory for every american age 13 and up, starting in middle school.(Until age 18 it is 50 hours per year.) If you refuse to participate, the federal government will refuse to allow your school to issue a diploma. In college, the hours go up to 100.

After college, you will be given a choice - you can do your 100 hours of forced free labor, or you will be required to pay an additional $4000 in federal income taxes. If you do not do your Gulag hours and refuse to pay this tax, you will go to prison for tax evasion.

Welcome to AmeriKKKa!
in awe

Franklin, NC

#2 Nov 7, 2008
You seem to have left out a couple of points, and mis stated others;

"Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan for Universal Voluntary Public Service"

"The Problem
Americans Not Asked to Serve After 9/11: President Bush squandered an opportunity to mobilize the American people following 9/11 when he asked Americans only to go shopping.

Insufficient Federal Support for Service: While more than 500,000 people have served in AmeriCorps, the program turns away tens of thousands of applicants a year because of limited funding."

"Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year."

You say the program is mandatory, but the web site you posted says its voluntary. One of you is a liar.
Count

Johnson City, TN

#3 Nov 7, 2008
That's an interesting article since Bill Ayers' idea of taking control of the country is to start with these kind of programs for children. Control them while they're young so they'll be used to it when they get a little older. Parents better start digging their heals in deep and putting a stop to this. Glad I don't have any children to worry about.
Just Looking Around

Smyrna, TN

#4 Nov 7, 2008
After last nights acceptance speech, President-elect Obama left even the new media wondering. Who is this man? His appearance on stage suggests that he asended and he has designed his own 'seal.' They stated it was like he was watching us watch him. After reflecting back, the media only knows what President-elect Obama wants them to know. He has never stated how he feels about most issues, just promises of what he will do as President, "spread the wealth." I can't see him taking from his rich supporters and giving it to 'Joe Public.' Sounds like it's about to get interesting. Too late now for the media to ask such questions.
0B5ERVER

Kingsport, TN

#5 Nov 7, 2008
in awe wrote:
"REQUIRE 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year."
You say the program is mandatory, but the web site you posted says its voluntary. One of you is a liar.
What does your dictionary define as the meaning of "Require"?
FactCheck

Kingsport, TN

#6 Nov 7, 2008
in awe wrote:
You seem to have left out a couple of points, and mis stated others;
"Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan for Universal Voluntary Public Service"
"The Problem
Americans Not Asked to Serve After 9/11: President Bush squandered an opportunity to mobilize the American people following 9/11 when he asked Americans only to go shopping.
Insufficient Federal Support for Service: While more than 500,000 people have served in AmeriCorps, the program turns away tens of thousands of applicants a year because of limited funding."
"Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year."
You say the program is mandatory, but the web site you posted says its voluntary. One of you is a liar.
Here is the fly in the ointment of your Obama defense: requiring a set amount of hours in exchange for the American Opportunity Tax Credit or other tuition assistance (in addition to what is currently available) is an excellent idea; however, the basic change.gov America Serves outline states the President-Elect will "develop a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school." As written, this is vague at best and without clarification as to what will new benefits will be granted or current benefits maintained/withheld: there is not possible way of knowing if "volunteerism" will remain voluntary.

At best, regarding such a program at middle/high school levels - I see a watered-down version passing Congress and turning out about as well as Bush's Faith-Based Initiatives program has.
FactCheck

Kingsport, TN

#7 Nov 7, 2008
pardon numerous typos - but you're smart: I'm sure you'll interpret accurately.
in awe

Franklin, NC

#8 Nov 7, 2008
0B5ERVER wrote:
<quoted text>
What does your dictionary define as the meaning of "Require"?
I would assume my dictionary defines it the same way as yours. When you work for an employer, he requires you to work for your pay. When you volunteer for a program where the government gives you $4,000, it requires you to work as well. No big deal to me. When you volunteer for the armed services, you are required to serve your country.

The only time I know where you do not work for your money is if you have too much of it, it sits in a bank or an investment, and you just magically make more money because of it. Talk about money for nothing!
in awe

Franklin, NC

#9 Nov 7, 2008
FactCheck wrote:
pardon numerous typos - but you're smart: I'm sure you'll interpret accurately.
Agree - we will have to wait and see the details, jumping to uneducated conclusions serves no purpose.
Wow

AOL

#10 Nov 7, 2008
Imagine, people actually being made to care for his or her neighbor without expecting "big money" from their efforts. Being the land of the free doesn't mean everyone can sit on his butt while people starve or go without medical care because they can't afford it. Imagine if all prisons put the inmates to work, if schools required kids to keep their schools clean and maintained. My God what if what every man and woman was required to serve the national guard in some way. We might actually become better prepared and self sufficient as citizens, as a nation. Volunteers? In this day of "ME" & "I want mine now!" I don't see many medical grads running out to man free clinics, when the can clean up doing boob jobs on the insecure.
in awe

Franklin, NC

#11 Nov 7, 2008
What would people think of an alternative education tax? I have always thought that since all tax payers pay for all children’s basic education, there should be some reimbursement for those that drop out. What would you say to a $10,000 tax in order for a child to drop out before high school graduation? Would that even come close to reimbursement to the public for the money lost (wasted) on trying to provide them and education? What about the expense that a drop will likely cost the public in their adult lives? Maybe $100,000 would be closer to reality.

Since: Jan 08

Church Hill

#12 Nov 7, 2008
I like this part..

Support First Responders: Barack Obama is committed not only to rolling back the Bush-McCain funding cuts that have affected our first responders - police, firefighters, and emergency medical professionals - but also to increasing federal resources and logistic support to local emergency planning efforts.
Dreaming

Johnson City, TN

#13 Nov 7, 2008
Wow wrote:
Imagine, people actually being made to care for his or her neighbor without expecting "big money" from their efforts. Being the land of the free doesn't mean everyone can sit on his butt while people starve or go without medical care because they can't afford it. Imagine if all prisons put the inmates to work, if schools required kids to keep their schools clean and maintained. My God what if what every man and woman was required to serve the national guard in some way. We might actually become better prepared and self sufficient as citizens, as a nation. Volunteers? In this day of "ME" & "I want mine now!" I don't see many medical grads running out to man free clinics, when the can clean up doing boob jobs on the insecure.
People used to take care of their neighbors and the children took care of their schools. Prisoners used to work on chain gangs everywhere. Then the government stepped in to make life better.:.)
Curious

AOL

#14 Nov 7, 2008
0B5ERVER wrote:
Details are now coming out of how Obama plans to pay for all the things he has promised.
The key component is a new plan called "America Serves". Here it is on his "transitional government" web page:
http://www.change.gov/americaserves/
Like the Gulag in the Soviet Union, americans will be forced to work 100 hours for federal government work programs each and every year. Participation in the program is mandatory for every american age 13 and up, starting in middle school.(Until age 18 it is 50 hours per year.) If you refuse to participate, the federal government will refuse to allow your school to issue a diploma. In college, the hours go up to 100.
After college, you will be given a choice - you can do your 100 hours of forced free labor, or you will be required to pay an additional $4000 in federal income taxes. If you do not do your Gulag hours and refuse to pay this tax, you will go to prison for tax evasion.
Welcome to AmeriKKKa!
Why do they let you people in the psych ward have access to computers. It's time for your meds and a nap.

Since: Feb 08

Earth

#15 Nov 7, 2008
50 hours a year works out to about an hour a week. In a time when so many people complain about the youth of this country watching too much TV and getting into trouble due to excess idle time I would welcome such a requirement. Not only would it give the young americans a feeling of accomplishment and pride in thier country but it also may instill a sense of civic duty which is extremely rare in this time of "gimme, where's mine" I see nothing but good things coming from a deeper sense of well earned american pride.
Dreaming

Johnson City, TN

#16 Nov 7, 2008
pineygirl wrote:
50 hours a year works out to about an hour a week. In a time when so many people complain about the youth of this country watching too much TV and getting into trouble due to excess idle time I would welcome such a requirement. Not only would it give the young americans a feeling of accomplishment and pride in thier country but it also may instill a sense of civic duty which is extremely rare in this time of "gimme, where's mine" I see nothing but good things coming from a deeper sense of well earned american pride.
You can say that because you're in a small town. Then there's the kids who live in big cities. They might be expected to go work with kids who bully everyone, maybe even stick a knife in someones back. I think the government needs to stay out of it. It's funny how all the obama fans seem so giving of themselves lately. Some are even willing to pay extra taxes just to help out ol' barry. Where've you been all my life.

Since: Sep 08

United States

#17 Nov 7, 2008
pineygirl wrote:
50 hours a year works out to about an hour a week. In a time when so many people complain about the youth of this country watching too much TV and getting into trouble due to excess idle time I would welcome such a requirement. Not only would it give the young americans a feeling of accomplishment and pride in thier country but it also may instill a sense of civic duty which is extremely rare in this time of "gimme, where's mine" I see nothing but good things coming from a deeper sense of well earned american pride.
Are you volunteering yourself or someone else?

“Here I am, entertain me!”

Since: May 08

rogersville

#18 Nov 7, 2008
Dreaming wrote:
<quoted text>
You can say that because you're in a small town. Then there's the kids who live in big cities. They might be expected to go work with kids who bully everyone, maybe even stick a knife in someones back. I think the government needs to stay out of it. It's funny how all the obama fans seem so giving of themselves lately. Some are even willing to pay extra taxes just to help out ol' barry. Where've you been all my life.
Where have you been? Us bleeding heart liberals have always cared about people in general, we are the people who stop and give to the people on the street with the "will work for..." signs. Of course we would not miss a few more $$ to help others!

And are you really so stupid as to think there are no bullies here??
Did you not read about a kid getting beaten badly in gang violence at RMS last year?
Did you not read about a kid being molested on school bus last year? Our county school system was sued over that one and had to pay up!
A girl was almost stabbed on school bus last year by a boy stabbing pocket knife thru seat on bus.
I could go on and on!
Children need a sense of work for what you recieve in life! A sense of self worth found in earning something, instead of thinking the world owes them something!
When people get out in the community and help others the build pride in their community and themselves!

I think that anyone who would oppose a community service in return for college tax credit is the real communist fool!
how could it go wrong if it helps young people go to school, build self worth and work ethic, and pride in the community, not to mention helping others who might be less fortunate, disabled, or the youth of a community!
Factcheck

Kingsport, TN

#19 Nov 7, 2008
whoa there badbabe - I don't think anyone opposes community service in return for tuition tax credit. This is a fair equation (though I'd want the credit expanded to cover technical training courses.)

I am also not opposed to the America Serves plan based on principle. I agree that Americans have lost their work ethic and believe the country was better when we were taught to tend and nurture our communities: however, you cannot instill values by rule of law - and you cannot teach work ethic through government-sanctioned indentured servitude.

But - just as I don't have enough information about the initiative to judge or condemn it - I'd hope you don't have enough information to support it. Details are vital.

Think about it: if you wanted to formulate a program wherein underage minors could voluntarily and with parental consent exchange "required amount" of service hours for accumulated tuition monies, college credits or a certificate of merit: this would be great.(Well, accumulated tuition assistance would create a new form of entitlement spending - but you get my point.)

However, if at middle or high school levels, you made 50 hours of community service compulsory in exchange for access to a public education, which is also required under federal law - you create a program wherein failure to participate indirectly results in punitive action. In which case, this is forced servitude: it impinges upon freedom or capacity to exercise choice and free will and I would think usurps the lawful authority of parents and guardians.

You know using the basic argument that we should not expect something for nothing - I'd be much more comfortable if we required service hours from all able-bodied persons receiving federal assistance as opposed to placing labor requirements on minors - with or without parental consent.

Again, success is in the details.

“Here I am, entertain me!”

Since: May 08

rogersville

#20 Nov 8, 2008
Factcheck wrote:
However, if at middle or high school levels, you made 50 hours of community service compulsory in exchange for access to a public education, which is also required under federal law - you create a program wherein failure to participate indirectly results in punitive action. In which case, this is forced servitude: it impinges upon freedom or capacity to exercise choice and free will and I would think usurps the lawful authority of parents and guardians.
we already have punishment in place if you fail to go to school, we have no choice or freewill when it comes to federal laws concerning school! and the lawful authority of parents and guardians has flown out the window.
I would think that people would see our school systems for what they really are, SOCIALIZED! and see that this plan could be an opportunity to move away from socialization.
Unless people really do want socialism in our country...

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