Folsom Lake plan under fire by horse owners

Mar 14, 2008 Full story: Sacramento Bee Newspaper 49

“It's a preliminary plan. This is an opportunity to consider your comments as we move ahead with a final plan.”

Published 12:00 am PDT Thursday, March 13, 2008 Story appeared in El DORADO FOLSOM RANCHO CORDO section, Page G1 Equestrians showed up in force last week to criticize a preliminary management plan for the ... via Sacramento Bee Newspaper

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jode

Placerville, CA

#1 Mar 15, 2008
It's about time that someone did something to try to limit the equestrian's access to the area.They always seem to represent a lower class of public land user.They are generally rude,they leave horse sh** on the trails and don't clean up after themselves,they cause trail erosion.We need this type of user out of our parks.
Steve

Sacramento, CA

#2 Mar 18, 2008
I don't have any problem with people riding their horses around the park. However, Jode is right, many of the riders are rude and they leave horse droppings on the trail. Those things are huge too. Imagine if us humans took dumps on the trails. The horse people would be appalled.
Bev

United States

#3 May 22, 2008
I rode Folsom lake horse trails yesterday. We encountered many people on the trails yesterday a Man with goats and dogs none on leashes, hikers with dogs not on leashes, 4 other people riding horses. Everyone paying and enjoying the same trails. For the ignorant people that dont know horse poop is just grass and when it dries out it is good fertilizer for plants and vegitation. It is in no way as toxic to the enviorment as human poo! Or Dog Poo---- "A lower class of public land user" What exactly does that mean? We pay thousands of dollars a year to feed, house, medical care, travel, etc. for our horses we spend hundreds to Haul them out to enjoy these remarkable trails around the state. How does that make them a lower class? If it wasnt for the thousands of horse people that pay to use these trails they wouldnt be there for the occasional person that decides on a saterday to get their butt off the couch and go for a hike, but oohh there is a pile of poo!!!!!!!! Get over it, step over it and come down of the pedestool you have climbed up on!
Taylormade

Grass Valley, CA

#4 May 22, 2008
Bev wrote:
I rode Folsom lake horse trails yesterday. We encountered many people on the trails yesterday a Man with goats and dogs none on leashes, hikers with dogs not on leashes, 4 other people riding horses. Everyone paying and enjoying the same trails. For the ignorant people that dont know horse poop is just grass and when it dries out it is good fertilizer for plants and vegitation. It is in no way as toxic to the enviorment as human poo! Or Dog Poo---- "A lower class of public land user" What exactly does that mean? We pay thousands of dollars a year to feed, house, medical care, travel, etc. for our horses we spend hundreds to Haul them out to enjoy these remarkable trails around the state. How does that make them a lower class? If it wasnt for the thousands of horse people that pay to use these trails they wouldnt be there for the occasional person that decides on a saterday to get their butt off the couch and go for a hike, but oohh there is a pile of poo!!!!!!!! Get over it, step over it and come down of the pedestool you have climbed up on!
Equestrians do often represent a lower class of park user.For the "ignorant people" such as Bev,I will point out that class does not just refer to economic class.it also refers to something that you will never have.It certainly requires some money to own horses but money doesn't make you a good trail user.I have had run ins with people riding horses where they have little control over their animals and a bad attitude to boot.The trail errosion issue mentioned by a previous poster is real and needs to be addressed.As far as horsepoo just being grass, I understand that put it still is unpleasant to step over for those that are able bodied and a mess for those that use the wheelchair accessable trails.They can't just "step over it". I guess Bev doesn't care about those users.I don't know why they aren't required to pick up their horsepoo and leave the place as clean as they found it just like other users are.Like was said.....a lower class of people.
KroonJr

Sacramento, CA

#5 May 22, 2008
Taylormade wrote:
<quoted text>Equestrians do often represent a lower class of park user.For the "ignorant people" such as Bev,I will point out that class does not just refer to economic class.it also refers to something that you will never have.It certainly requires some money to own horses but money doesn't make you a good trail user.I have had run ins with people riding horses where they have little control over their animals and a bad attitude to boot.The trail errosion issue mentioned by a previous poster is real and needs to be addressed.As far as horsepoo just being grass, I understand that put it still is unpleasant to step over for those that are able bodied and a mess for those that use the wheelchair accessable trails.They can't just "step over it". I guess Bev doesn't care about those users.I don't know why they aren't required to pick up their horsepoo and leave the place as clean as they found it just like other users are.Like was said.....a lower class of people.
absolutely right.There must be some way to force them to act responsibly or kick them off the trails.
J Miller

El Dorado Hills, CA

#6 May 24, 2008
New money has allowed non-horse folks to step up. The novices now go anywhere/everywhere without training for thensleves or their horses, putting responsiblilty for their's and other safety elsewhere. It's childish! If you or your horse hasn't been around people or vehicles take them to areas that have a safe enviroment and acclimate. Don't just go out in the public and expect everyone to understand that your on a "wing and a prayer"!
Sarahsong

Placerville, CA

#7 May 30, 2008
Horses don't belong on these trails.Too many of them are not well trained enough to be out on a public trail.They make a mess,cause erosion,don't mix well with other trail users and their owners are usually obnoxious.At the very least they should be forced to clean up the mess they leave or face a fine for littering.I'm not as young as I used to be and there are times when I have to walk off trail just to get around the piles of horsecrap left on the trail by these inconsiderate equestrians.
RHillman

Sacramento, CA

#8 Jun 6, 2008
J Miller wrote:
New money has allowed non-horse folks to step up. The novices now go anywhere/everywhere without training for thensleves or their horses, putting responsiblilty for their's and other safety elsewhere. It's childish! If you or your horse hasn't been around people or vehicles take them to areas that have a safe enviroment and acclimate. Don't just go out in the public and expect everyone to understand that your on a "wing and a prayer"!
it's true that many of the equestrians you see out on the trails are inexperienced or their horses are.This would be fine if it was just themselves the were endangering but it's not.These big stupid animals should be outlawed on our public lands and so should the horses that they ride on.
banter

United States

#9 Jun 7, 2008
maybe somebidy should start gathering signatures.Maybe we all can bring about a change in the park regulations.The horseback riders need to pulled off of public park lands.They are poor citizens.
JackSlade

Placerville, CA

#10 Jun 23, 2008
I come from a horse ranch that has been in my family for 50 years (in Colorado). I've lived in Folsom for 15 years now.

Much to the dissapointment I'm sure of my parents I am not a true "horse person" although I learned to work with them and the people that go with them.

Aside from the problem of a person being on the back of a living animal that can do unpredictable things no matter what the experience level is (horse OR rider) there is I feel an attitude of "we were here first".

Even on our own ranch us OWNERS who wish to change some of the uses of OUR land are met with great resistance form the horse community.

Times are and have been changing. Unfortunately for the equestrian user group they are now a special minority interest group. The demographics have changed a thousand fold.

As a quite frequent trail hiker and MT biker I have met both "good" and "bad" equestrians on the trail. To the good ones, thank you and I think you are brave to be on common trails with the other user groups.

To the "bad" (mostely rude) ones, you should wake up and be more tollerant of the other trail users while you still have access to "your" trails.

As for the horse poo... well since I grew up with it I still like the smell of it... in moderation of course!
Bodus

Newcastle, CA

#11 Jun 27, 2008
JackSlade wrote:
I come from a horse ranch that has been in my family for 50 years (in Colorado). I've lived in Folsom for 15 years now.
Much to the dissapointment I'm sure of my parents I am not a true "horse person" although I learned to work with them and the people that go with them.
Aside from the problem of a person being on the back of a living animal that can do unpredictable things no matter what the experience level is (horse OR rider) there is I feel an attitude of "we were here first".
Even on our own ranch us OWNERS who wish to change some of the uses of OUR land are met with great resistance form the horse community.
Times are and have been changing. Unfortunately for the equestrian user group they are now a special minority interest group. The demographics have changed a thousand fold.
As a quite frequent trail hiker and MT biker I have met both "good" and "bad" equestrians on the trail. To the good ones, thank you and I think you are brave to be on common trails with the other user groups.
To the "bad" (mostely rude) ones, you should wake up and be more tollerant of the other trail users while you still have access to "your" trails.
As for the horse poo... well since I grew up with it I still like the smell of it... in moderation of course!
I agree with you completely except for the part about the smell of horse manure.It just smells likeshit to me.Get these rude punks and their dumb animals off the public trails.
ferristown

Folsom, CA

#12 Aug 25, 2008
JackSlade wrote:
I come from a horse ranch that has been in my family for 50 years (in Colorado). I've lived in Folsom for 15 years now.
Much to the dissapointment I'm sure of my parents I am not a true "horse person" although I learned to work with them and the people that go with them.
Aside from the problem of a person being on the back of a living animal that can do unpredictable things no matter what the experience level is (horse OR rider) there is I feel an attitude of "we were here first".
Even on our own ranch us OWNERS who wish to change some of the uses of OUR land are met with great resistance form the horse community.
Times are and have been changing. Unfortunately for the equestrian user group they are now a special minority interest group. The demographics have changed a thousand fold.
As a quite frequent trail hiker and MT biker I have met both "good" and "bad" equestrians on the trail. To the good ones, thank you and I think you are brave to be on common trails with the other user groups.
To the "bad" (mostely rude) ones, you should wake up and be more tollerant of the other trail users while you still have access to "your" trails.
As for the horse poo... well since I grew up with it I still like the smell of it... in moderation of course!
screw all you liberals.Let the horses run right up your asses.elitist scum
seguro

Davis, CA

#13 Sep 1, 2008
I must say, I've been run off trails by bicyclists.(Talk about trail erosion!)I've had bicyclists pull over on the trail and actually argue with me that I should verbally acknowledge their signals never mind I've already moved to the exteme right side of the trail. Believe me I'd much rather step over poop. It would be nice if a rider would dismount and kick poop off the trail, maybe that should be required. Considering the potential for damage from bicyclists and horses, maybe both bicyclists and horseback riders (and their horses) ought to be qualified in some way. It is much easier to see and avoid stepping in horse poop than dog poop, and dog poop is much more nasty. I've been injured by a poorly controlled dog running into my knee. I've had dogs off and even on leashes jump on me and bump into me on trails. Whereas, every rider I've ever encountered has been on a well controlled mount and yielded the trail to me. The worst trail erosion I have seen is two footers cutting off the trail where they shouldn't. And, ahem, doing things where they shouldn't. And leaving cans and bottles and dirty diapars and tagging the rocks! Who were we calling low class? I've got an idea! Let's ban everyone!
seguro

Davis, CA

#14 Sep 1, 2008
Ah! I forgot to mention the new trail I explored the other day. I'm five miles into a nice, peaceful hike when I round the next hill and the peace is made a lot less pleasant by the sound of dirt bikes, but I hiked a bit further and it was nice again. Don't be such prima donnas!
amborg

United States

#15 Sep 8, 2008
seguro wrote:
I must say, I've been run off trails by bicyclists.(Talk about trail erosion!)I've had bicyclists pull over on the trail and actually argue with me that I should verbally acknowledge their signals never mind I've already moved to the exteme right side of the trail. Believe me I'd much rather step over poop. It would be nice if a rider would dismount and kick poop off the trail, maybe that should be required. Considering the potential for damage from bicyclists and horses, maybe both bicyclists and horseback riders (and their horses) ought to be qualified in some way. It is much easier to see and avoid stepping in horse poop than dog poop, and dog poop is much more nasty. I've been injured by a poorly controlled dog running into my knee. I've had dogs off and even on leashes jump on me and bump into me on trails. Whereas, every rider I've ever encountered has been on a well controlled mount and yielded the trail to me. The worst trail erosion I have seen is two footers cutting off the trail where they shouldn't. And, ahem, doing things where they shouldn't. And leaving cans and bottles and dirty diapars and tagging the rocks! Who were we calling low class? I've got an idea! Let's ban everyone!
are you stupid?Horses cause more erosion by far than almost any other non-motorized users.Mountain bikers can be rude but not anywhere near as damaging to the trails.
monkeywench

Sacramento, CA

#16 Jan 7, 2009
RHillman wrote:
<quoted text>it's true that many of the equestrians you see out on the trails are inexperienced or their horses are.This would be fine if it was just themselves the were endangering but it's not.These big stupid animals should be outlawed on our public lands and so should the horses that they ride on.
Wow! I thought getting out into nature was supposed to relax people. What a lot of nastiness. Perhaps those that want horses "kicked off the trails" might be interested to know that Folsom Lake Trail Patrol, an all volunteer equestrian group, does a great deal of the maintenance on the trails to keep them usable for the bikers and hikers. They also assist with many of the foot and bike races that are held on the trails. Personally, I have found if people follow the rules and are courtious to each other, problems are avoided. I use the Folsom trails frequently and I have encountered rude bikers, rude runners and rude equestrains. Thankfully, they are in the minority. Unfortunately, after reading these posts it occurs to me that the "Me first!" mentality is growing.
name

Rancho Cordova, CA

#17 Jan 8, 2009
Sarahsong wrote:
Horses don't belong on these trails.Too many of them are not well trained enough to be out on a public trail.They make a mess,cause erosion,don't mix well with other trail users and their owners are usually obnoxious.At the very least they should be forced to clean up the mess they leave or face a fine for littering.I'm not as young as I used to be and there are times when I have to walk off trail just to get around the piles of horsecrap left on the trail by these inconsiderate equestrians.
seriously i bet u dont pick up your own dogs shit.
yea some people lose control of their horses when they spook probably when they see you.
horse shit isnt litter!!! wow. tell me how a ranger is going to give me a ticket for my horses shit when he didnt see her do it?!?!?!!?
DNA?!!!
you people are so damn stupid im pretty sure ALL of the trail signs say hikers AND people riding bikes all must yield to horses.
their not kicking us out anytime soon. horses will ALWAYS be aloud the right to ride on the trails at folsom lake.
specially since most of them are horse trails.
will

Rocklin, CA

#18 Jan 11, 2009
I've lived by Folsom lake 24 of 25 years. you can potty train a cat/dog. horses just keep on trucken. its ground up grass, fertalizer. I have been riding the lake for 14 years on mtn-bike. if you dont like it then walk around it.
LarryG

Rancho Cordova, CA

#19 Jan 13, 2009
name wrote:
<quoted text>
seriously i bet u dont pick up your own dogs shit.
yea some people lose control of their horses when they spook probably when they see you.
horse shit isnt litter!!! wow. tell me how a ranger is going to give me a ticket for my horses shit when he didnt see her do it?!?!?!!?
DNA?!!!
you people are so damn stupid im pretty sure ALL of the trail signs say hikers AND people riding bikes all must yield to horses.
their not kicking us out anytime soon. horses will ALWAYS be aloud the right to ride on the trails at folsom lake.
specially since most of them are horse trails.
Are you for real?Nobody on here has suggested that a ranger should give you a ticket with out seeing you commit an offense.I guess when you have such a weak stance you have to make things up to back up your point of view.You go on to accuse those that disagree with you of leaving dog crap on the trail.Of course you have absolutely no evidence of this just more moronic ramblings.Then you go on to say that "you people are so damn stupid"(although most of us know the difference between aloud and allowed)in regard to who has right of way on the trail.Everyone knows who has right of way but you still need to have your big stupid animal under control(no, not your wife).That is the real issue here.I have no problem with animals that don't put others at risk.I have been practically run off the trail while standing to the side to give equestrians their right of way.You also didn't adress the erosion or other issues raised here.You are exactly the type of trail user who should be run off of the trails.
Cowboy

Sacramento, CA

#20 Aug 20, 2009
Ok they are called horse trails people...They are designed for horses...get it..also a horse is not a dog..hence you don't jump off and shovel it up in a little sack and pet his or her head...come on..get a relaxing sort of mind and let it go...horse trails can be used by all...runners...mountian bikers...hikeers...we just have to stay respectfull of all...also there are much bigger problems in the world...relax...share enjoy and respect each other[

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