“STOP PLAYING THE RACE CARD”

Since: May 11

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#44 Feb 4, 2013
Oh will you stop whining already. Roderick Scott was lucky he didn't get convicted for shooting that kid. What he should have done is stayed in his house and called 911 and to be the best witness possible. Instead he shot a kid who was breaking into cars. You make it sound like the crime of the century.

I also NEVER said that you weren't allowed to protect yourself, never said that at all. I be in self defense and the 2nd Amendment.

I will tell you, you know nothing about the criminal justice system and your anger is only pointed at the police. If you don't want to listen that is your choice. But the juvenile courts like to use diversion programs, and the police arrest many juveniles when they commit a "CRIME", you can't charge a juvenile in NY with a violation. So again, it comes back to the courts getting tougher on crime and criminals. It's the same with gun control, the courts need to get tougher on criminals and stop letting these nut cases out of prison so they can commit more crimes.

Now you swayed your statement towards self defense before you were rambling about how you should be armed to the gills just like the police. Make up your mind.

I agree with self defense, no magazine restriction, no re-certification or registration. Common sense should tell you that the police are armed the way they are because of people who think they need more firepower than the police, think about it.
Ha Ha

Iraq

#45 Feb 4, 2013
The_ Patriot_USA wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't care about that stat. Police are more likely to come in contact with hostage situations than a citizen. The police need to be better equipped than some citizen that wants to play cop. Cops also come into contact with more armed suspects on a daily basis, did a citizen take out those Hollywood bank robbers....NOPE. Were the police prepared for something like that....NOPE. They had to go to a gun store to get AR-15's. And again, I would rather have a well trained police officer protecting me than someone that has a carry permit with no training at all. But then again, I'm a very good shot so I don't need them as much.
Keep in mind that those "Hollywood" bank robbers were career criminals who were't afraid of the cops or the system.

If on thier first of second encounter with them ended with them being KILLED by an armed citizen, instead of them being embolded by revolving door criminal justice system, those cops might not have ever had to face them that day.

The career path of our criminals today starts with someone being arrested for a small crime. they go to jail (a.k.a. crime college) where they learn more crime craft from hardened fellons. usually they end up in a gang, which makes them bolder.

That whole career path would change if they are shot by a citizen defending themselves while they are early in their chosen profession.
Ha Ha

Iraq

#46 Feb 4, 2013
The_ Patriot_USA wrote:
LMAO....80 million armed citizens vs 794,000 cops. Man if you did the percentage there the cops would win hands down.
Yes, for several reasone ... first, of those 80 million armed citizens, 794,00 are probably cops.

also, they type of weapons, training, organization and communications give the advantage to the police over the rest of the population.

so if the 2nd amendment was in place to keep the government in check, we have already lost to the police. right now, the guns we have a only a speed bump. Ruby Ridge is a great example of that.

“STOP PLAYING THE RACE CARD”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#47 Feb 5, 2013
Ha Ha wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, for several reasone ... first, of those 80 million armed citizens, 794,00 are probably cops.
also, they type of weapons, training, organization and communications give the advantage to the police over the rest of the population.
so if the 2nd amendment was in place to keep the government in check, we have already lost to the police. right now, the guns we have a only a speed bump. Ruby Ridge is a great example of that.
WRONG, remember those were your stats you looked up, and by those figures the police are in need of the fire power more than the average citizen, are you going to argue mathematics now.

Thanks for proving my point, yes the police should have the advantage over criminals. Man, all your arguing and you just prove my point.

The 2nd Amendment was not put in place to keep the government in check. You gotta do better than that. You better read the Bill of Rights.

You also better read up on Ruby Ridge and Waco while your at it. Weaver sold illegal firearms to agents, sorry but that makes him a criminal. David Koresh....CRIMINAL...."A UPS driver described a package that had broken open on delivery to the Branch Davidian residence, revealing firearms, inert grenade casings, and black powder". So far you have described criminals instead of citizens needs.

“STOP PLAYING THE RACE CARD”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#48 Feb 5, 2013
Oh and again, you keep proving my point that the criminal justice system is the main problem here and not the 2nd Amendment or the right to bear arms. Career criminals, yep, the courts let those nut cases out to commit crimes again. So how do you blame the police for that again ?
Ha Ha

Iraq

#49 Feb 5, 2013
The_ Patriot_USA wrote:
<quoted text>
WRONG, remember those were your stats you looked up, and by those figures the police are in need of the fire power more than the average citizen, are you going to argue mathematics now.
Thanks for proving my point, yes the police should have the advantage over criminals. Man, all your arguing and you just prove my point.
The 2nd Amendment was not put in place to keep the government in check. You gotta do better than that. You better read the Bill of Rights.
You also better read up on Ruby Ridge and Waco while your at it. Weaver sold illegal firearms to agents, sorry but that makes him a criminal. David Koresh....CRIMINAL...."A UPS driver described a package that had broken open on delivery to the Branch Davidian residence, revealing firearms, inert grenade casings, and black powder". So far you have described criminals instead of citizens needs.
I think you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say.

On the first point, I was saying that the larger number of armed citizens INCLUDES the number of armed police. So, my point is that those stats are slightly skewed. Also, if one group were to go against the other, the police still have the advantave because along with guns (which have no restrictions), the police have organization, training and communication ... which ofsets the balance.

On the second point, the 2nd amendment WAS there to keep the government in place. I am very familiar with the second amendment, and I am also familiar with the Federalist papers that go along with it. The federalist papers are written to define the intent of the amendments. Check it out.

Third, Weaver did not sell illegal weapons. The FBI wanted weaver to help them infiltrate a neo-Nazi origination because he had a relationship with them - they both hated the government for meddling in their business. An undercover agent set Weaver up by asking him to saw the barrel off a shotgun. Weaver knew it was illegal, and didn't want to do it. The agent coaxed him to touch the saw and the gun, and then charged him with an illegal modification to a fire arm. The undercover offered to drop the charges if he agreed to help the FBI. Weaver refused. Who would help someone who just set you up? go back and read it again ...

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#50 Feb 5, 2013
http://news.yahoo.com/memo-sets-rationale-kil...
So, if someone were to manufacture evidence of your links to Jihadists or Al Qaida or some bullsht, they can target you and your family. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that this Administration might do such a thing to their "enemies" ?(Stalin had a similar plan and killed tens of thousands of his opposition and suspected opposition) Just sayin'
Ha Ha

Iraq

#51 Feb 5, 2013
The_ Patriot_USA wrote:
Oh and again, you keep proving my point that the criminal justice system is the main problem here and not the 2nd Amendment or the right to bear arms. Career criminals, yep, the courts let those nut cases out to commit crimes again. So how do you blame the police for that again ?
Sure, I agree that the courts are ALSO to blame.

But I have FIRST HAND experience with cops who refuse to even try to look for someone because they might be a minor and the cops feel it's a waste of time because won't go anywhere.

And this is why cops end up holding the blame ... cops are the first link in the chain. You have to get these bastards to the courtroom before the public can see that the courts are the ones dropping the ball..

Letting punk kids get a pass for small crimes makes the problem worse. When these rotten tomatoes finally do something bad enough to get the attention of the police ... in the eyes of the court, these kids look like first time offenders and the judge gives them leniency.

So let's start with the cops doing their job ... and then we'll be able to see that it's the judges and DA's that are the weak link when they are letting repeat offenders go.

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#52 Feb 5, 2013
Naughtyrobot wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/memo-set s-rationale-kill-qaida-linked- citizens-135927368--politics.h tml
So, if someone were to manufacture evidence of your links to Jihadists or Al Qaida or some bullsht, they can target you and your family. Is it beyond the realm of possibility that this Administration might do such a thing to their "enemies" ?(Stalin had a similar plan and killed tens of thousands of his opposition and suspected opposition) Just sayin'
They are already doing it,too bad the msm and the loons don't see it.
Ha Ha

Iraq

#53 Feb 5, 2013
pigpen911 wrote:
<quoted text>They are already doing it,too bad the msm and the loons don't see it.
Well, our mass media does a great job of hiding it. Joseph Gerbals could learn a thing or two from fox news!

“STOP PLAYING THE RACE CARD”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#54 Feb 5, 2013
Ha Ha wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say.
On the first point, I was saying that the larger number of armed citizens INCLUDES the number of armed police. So, my point is that those stats are slightly skewed. Also, if one group were to go against the other, the police still have the advantave because along with guns (which have no restrictions), the police have organization, training and communication ... which ofsets the balance.
On the second point, the 2nd amendment WAS there to keep the government in place. I am very familiar with the second amendment, and I am also familiar with the Federalist papers that go along with it. The federalist papers are written to define the intent of the amendments. Check it out.
Third, Weaver did not sell illegal weapons. The FBI wanted weaver to help them infiltrate a neo-Nazi origination because he had a relationship with them - they both hated the government for meddling in their business. An undercover agent set Weaver up by asking him to saw the barrel off a shotgun. Weaver knew it was illegal, and didn't want to do it. The agent coaxed him to touch the saw and the gun, and then charged him with an illegal modification to a fire arm. The undercover offered to drop the charges if he agreed to help the FBI. Weaver refused. Who would help someone who just set you up? go back and read it again ...
No it doesn't include the police in the scenario, that's why it was made in 2 separate categories.

"In October 1989, the ATF claimed that Weaver sold the informant two sawed-off shotguns, with the overall length of the guns shorter than the legal limit set by federal law." Either way you want to spin it, Weaver committed a criminal act.

“STOP PLAYING THE RACE CARD”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#55 Feb 5, 2013
Ha Ha wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure, I agree that the courts are ALSO to blame.
But I have FIRST HAND experience with cops who refuse to even try to look for someone because they might be a minor and the cops feel it's a waste of time because won't go anywhere.
And this is why cops end up holding the blame ... cops are the first link in the chain. You have to get these bastards to the courtroom before the public can see that the courts are the ones dropping the ball..
Letting punk kids get a pass for small crimes makes the problem worse. When these rotten tomatoes finally do something bad enough to get the attention of the police ... in the eyes of the court, these kids look like first time offenders and the judge gives them leniency.
So let's start with the cops doing their job ... and then we'll be able to see that it's the judges and DA's that are the weak link when they are letting repeat offenders go.
Again, you know nothing about the juvenile court system. The current system is nothing more than telling little Jimmy and Jenny, Now don't do that again and you need counseling. My belief is that you hand out harsh sentences from the get go. And again, you can't charge a juvenile with a violation which many of these cases are you are talking about. The system is broken and you are wrong when you say the police are the in the chain, the parents are. Even when an adult gets arrested, many times they are out on bail before the officer even finishes their paperwork. The whole criminal justice system comes down to money. The judges won't send you to prison because of over crowding or you get released because of over crowding. And by making more gun laws like Cuomo did, all he did was add more fuel to the fire where these laws won't be enforced.

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#56 Feb 5, 2013
The_ Patriot_USA wrote:
<quoted text>
No it doesn't include the police in the scenario, that's why it was made in 2 separate categories.
"In October 1989, the ATF claimed that Weaver sold the informant two sawed-off shotguns, with the overall length of the guns shorter than the legal limit set by federal law." Either way you want to spin it, Weaver committed a criminal act.
It isn't the overall length of the firearm,it is the length of the barrel,the min is 18" barrel length. There are many companies like Mossburg,Remington,Savage that sells shotguns with the min barrels of 18".In most states you can still buy pistol grips for shotguns,not NY or NJ of course,what a shock! Hope that helps.
Ha Ha

Iraq

#57 Feb 5, 2013
The_ Patriot_USA wrote:
<quoted text>
No it doesn't include the police in the scenario, that's why it was made in 2 separate categories.
"In October 1989, the ATF claimed that Weaver sold the informant two sawed-off shotguns, with the overall length of the guns shorter than the legal limit set by federal law." Either way you want to spin it, Weaver committed a criminal act.
Yes ... and years later, that same informant came forward to say that he set Weaver up. That is why this is used as a sample of government corruption. People saw how easy it is for the government to justify violating the constitution.

Also, Police moved Weaver's trial date without notifing Weaver. When Weaver missed the court date, the feds went after him ... that is what touched off the standoff.

Police regularly create evidence and manipulate the system to get their man. It happens all the time.

http://wrongfulconvictionsblog.org/2012/12/07...

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#58 Feb 5, 2013
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/01/nyregion/fo...
Well, maybe closing prisons will help out crime. All the criminals the police worked hard to put behind bars getting early release and soft sentences. Better get that exemption quick, some of these perps have long memories and statistics show some go after retired LEOs as well as active ones. At least cop families will have the advantage of normal capacity magazines. I guess the rest of us are not entitled to Constitutional rights.
Ha Ha

Iraq

#59 Feb 5, 2013
The_ Patriot_USA wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, you know nothing about the juvenile court system. The current system is nothing more than telling little Jimmy and Jenny, Now don't do that again and you need counseling. My belief is that you hand out harsh sentences from the get go. And again, you can't charge a juvenile with a violation which many of these cases are you are talking about. The system is broken and you are wrong when you say the police are the in the chain, the parents are. Even when an adult gets arrested, many times they are out on bail before the officer even finishes their paperwork. The whole criminal justice system comes down to money. The judges won't send you to prison because of over crowding or you get released because of over crowding. And by making more gun laws like Cuomo did, all he did was add more fuel to the fire where these laws won't be enforced.
Okay, I AGREE that Parents are First in that chain.

But some crimes, even commited by kids should be delt with harshly.

Like, That Cervini kid who was out with Chris Cervini ... he was on probation for holding a knife to another kid's throat. Yet he was still out breaking into cars on parole. He had no fear of going to jail.

But after his cousin was shot, I bet it's been a while since he was out causing trouble.

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#60 Feb 5, 2013
Ha Ha wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I AGREE that Parents are First in that chain.
But some crimes, even commited by kids should be delt with harshly.
Like, That Cervini kid who was out with Chris Cervini ... he was on probation for holding a knife to another kid's throat. Yet he was still out breaking into cars on parole. He had no fear of going to jail.
But after his cousin was shot, I bet it's been a while since he was out causing trouble.
All crimes should be delt with harshly,ALL! Our country is becoming a third world crap hole because of the bleeding heart liberals that won't dole out hard time or they let the trash walk with just a slap on the back of the hand.When it comes to the Cervini kid I think that what Scott did was way over the line.You don't shoot a kid FOUR times,once in the back btw,for stealing from UNLOCKED cars.If anything Scott should have been convicted for man 3 and had his rights to ever own a firearm revoked for life.Was Cervini a punk?,yes,did he deserve to die for stealing,NO. It wouldn't have bothered me one bit if Cervini got 5 yrs the second time at all. What gets me is when a murder gets 15 yrs and walks in 7-1/2 noone seems to be upset by it,why? What about all of the rapist,child molesters and wife beaters that walk everyday? Isn't that why our country is in the shape it is now? Just asking and ranting.

“STOP PLAYING THE RACE CARD”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#61 Feb 5, 2013
Ha Ha wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I AGREE that Parents are First in that chain.
But some crimes, even commited by kids should be delt with harshly.
Like, That Cervini kid who was out with Chris Cervini ... he was on probation for holding a knife to another kid's throat. Yet he was still out breaking into cars on parole. He had no fear of going to jail.
But after his cousin was shot, I bet it's been a while since he was out causing trouble.
Okay so who are you going to blame for that, the police...I don't think so. That is the courts fault. The police only enforce laws so that people can be put in front of a judge, the courts love to hand out probation or use diversion programs or drug court. If you smack the criminal the first time with a harsh sentence then the chances of them doing it again is lower. And if they do get out and do it again, then make sure they serve LIFE for those serious crimes.

As far as Cervini goes, he was a troubled kid that didn't listen to his parents. And no he was not on parole, in fact Cervini had no criminal record at all. He was drunk the night of the shooting and had drugs in his system. Scott's claim that he wanted to stop these kids before they got away because they live far away and they would have been gone before the police got there. So what, it's a petty crime. How much more severely do you want Cervini to be dealt with, he's dead.

COURTS
COURTS
COURTS

STOP playing patty cake with these punks and put them away. If it can be proven that the parents won't enforce discipline and respect in the home then make the parents pay for their little puke.
band together

Webster, NY

#62 Feb 5, 2013

“STOP PLAYING THE RACE CARD”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#63 Feb 6, 2013
pigpen911 wrote:
<quoted text>It isn't the overall length of the firearm,it is the length of the barrel,the min is 18" barrel length. There are many companies like Mossburg,Remington,Savage that sells shotguns with the min barrels of 18".In most states you can still buy pistol grips for shotguns,not NY or NJ of course,what a shock! Hope that helps.
I know, i copy and pasted that portion from the ATF report

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