Global warming 'undeniable,' scientis...

Global warming 'undeniable,' scientists say

There are 35579 comments on the TwinCities.com story from Jul 29, 2010, titled Global warming 'undeniable,' scientists say. In it, TwinCities.com reports that:

Scientists from around the world are providing even more evidence of global warming, one day after President Barack Obama renewed his call for climate legislation.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TwinCities.com.

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

#23552 Jan 31, 2013
part 2, continued

8. You cite a paper by Charles F Keller as the source of your claim that:
"satellites and radiosondes show that there is no global warming." (p382)
This is what the paper says:

"The big news [is] the collapse of the climate critics' last real bastion, namely that satellites and radiosondes show no significant warming in the past quarter century. Figuratively speaking, this was the center pole that held up the critics' entire "tent." Their argument was that, if there had been little warming in the past 25 years or so, then what warming was observed would have been within the range of natural variations with solar forcing as the major player. Further, the models would have been shown to be unreliable since they were predicting warming that was not happening. But now both satellite and in-situ radiosonde observations have been shown to corroborate both the surface observations of warming and the model predictions."

a. How did you manage to reverse the findings of this paper?
b. Was it a mistake or was it deliberate misrepresentation?
9. You state:

"The Hadley Centre in the UK has shown that warming stopped in 1998" (p391).
Again you produce no reference.
This is what the Hadley Centre says:

"The evidence is clear - the long-term trend is that global temperatures are rising, and humans are largely responsible for this rise. Global warming does not mean that each year will be warmer than the last. Natural phenomena will mean that some years will be much warmer and others cooler. You only need to look at 1998 to see a record-breaking warm year caused by a very strong El Niño. In the last couple of years, the underlying warming is partially masked caused by a strong La Niña. Despite this, 11 of the last 13 years were the warmest ever recorded.[...] Over the last ten years, global temperatures have warmed more slowly than the long-term trend. But this does not mean that global warming has slowed down or even stopped. It is entirely consistent with our understanding of natural fluctuations of the climate within a trend of continued long-term warming."

a. Please give a reference for your claim.
b. How do you explain the discrepancy between your account of what the Hadley Centre says and theirs?

10. You state that:
"Volcanoes produce more CO2 than the world's cars and industries combined." (p413)
This is similar to the claim in The Great Global Warming Swindle, whose narrator maintained that:
"Volcanoes produce more CO2 each year than all the factories and cars and planes and other sources of man-made carbon dioxide put together."

But you do not provide a source for it.

This is what the US Geological Survey says:
"Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes".
a. Please provide a reference for your claim.
b. How do you explain the discrepancy between this claim and the published data?

11. You maintain that:
"termite methane emissions are 20 times potent than human CO2 emissions".(p472)

Please provide a source for this claim.

Thank you,
Yours Sincerely,

George Monbiot

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgem...

Care to answer the questions from his book that Plimer couldn't?

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

#23553 Jan 31, 2013
martinezjosei wrote:
UPDATE: I write about this subject a lot and

Interview in the Spectator with Australian geology Professor Ian Plimer re his book Heaven And Earth. Plimer makes the point that CO2 is not a pollutant – CO2 is plant food, and that climate change is an ongoing natural process.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdeling...
TS: No.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/...

While it is true a greenhouse effect has a CO2 fertilization effect -- this is only true if there is enough rain and fertilizer to sustain the added growth. Turns out the real world doesn't work like a commercial greenhouse.

There are season cereals (Wheat, rye, triticale, oats, barley, and spelt) that grow in moderate weather but cease to grow in hot climates.

A study of the warming from this century has shown a very uneven distribution of rains –
And the warmer temperatures means more evaporation of moisture in the soil leading to MORE intense and larger drought areas

More important global warming has been estimated to harm the oceans. This has the greatest negative effect of all!

(i) Science studies have shown that as the surface water of the oceans warmed up, phytoplankton biomass declined -- which means that there will be less ocean plants to uptake this greenhouse gas and less food in the chain for ocean life.

http://www.livescience.com/environment/061206...

(ii) Increased atmospheric CO2 increases the amount of CO2 dissolved in the oceans. Carbon dioxide gas dissolved in the ocean reacts with water to form carbonic acid, resulting in ocean acidification. This is already killing off the coral reefs and creating dead spots.

<<New study says oceans' chemistry changing rapidly
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100422/ap_on_sc/...

WASHINGTON – The chemistry of the oceans is changing faster than it has in hundreds of thousands of years because of the carbon dioxide being absorbed from the atmosphere, the National Research Council reported Thursday.

Carbon dioxide and other industrial gases have been a concern for several years because of their impact on the air, raising global temperatures in a process called the greenhouse effect.
One factor easing that warmth has been the amount of CO2 taken up by the oceans, but that has also caused scientific concerns because the chemicals make the water more acidic, which can affect sea life.
Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution in the 18th century, the pH of ocean water has declined from 8.2 to 8.1 and a further decline of 0.2 to 0.3 units is expected by the end of this century, according to the Research Council, an arm of the National Academy of Science.
The current rate of change "exceeds any known change in ocean chemistry for at least 800,000 years," the report said.
As most folks will remember from school chemistry, pH is a measure of how alkaline or acidic something is. A pH of 7 is neutral, while higher numbers are more alkaline and lower numbers are more acidic.

As the ocean becomes more acidic scientists have raised concern about dissolving coral reefs and potential effects on fish and other sea life.

For example, studies have shown that increasing seawater acidity affects photosynthesis, nutrient acquisition, growth, reproduction and individual survival of certain sea life.

++++++++++

So cut the right wing crap, ok?

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

#23554 Jan 31, 2013
martinezjosei wrote:
The world is currently cooling; electorates are increasingly reluctant to support eco-policies leading to more oppressive regulation, higher taxes and higher utility bills; the tide is turning against Al Gore's Anthropogenic Global Warming theory
Scientists do not support Gore,

Al Gore supports the scientists.

GW scientific case was established long before Al Gore's documentary. For example:

http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/obj...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#23558 Jan 31, 2013
martinezjosei wrote:
<quoted text>

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdeling...

As Andrew Bolt puts it, this scandal could well be "the greatest in modern science". These alleged emails... suggest:
Conspiracy, collusion in exaggerating warming data, possibly illegal destruction of embarrassing information, organised resistance to disclosure, manipulation of data, private admissions of flaws in their public claims and much more.

Manipulation of evidence:
I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.

Fantasies of violence against prominent Climate Sceptic scientists:
I can't believe you're trying to dredge up this LYING NONSENSE yet AGAIN!!

Firstly, Wallop10 has simply crushed most of your errant "arguments" - care to answer his questions? You've been refuted repeatedly. But there are more errors in your post.

The Telegraph is a true fishwrap, a tabloid that has trouble coming "up" to the standards of our Enquirer.

There is NO scandal with the ginned-up nonsense about "climategate." The scientists did NOTHING wrong, & they've been cleared by multiple investigations.

Your charges about "manipulation & suppression) of evidence" are outrageous, slanderous lies, for which you should pay, either in civil court or criminal.

You probably don't even know that "Mike's trick" & "hide the decline" refer to two totally different things, do you? Hmmm?

From 1880 onward, we actually have temperature measurements from an increasing number of places on the earth. Before that, though, we must use proxies for temperature, indirect indicators of temps at that time.

Michael E Mann et al used tree rings as proxies to infer temps back to ~1000 AD (CE). Tree rings are narrower, & wood more dense, with lower temps.

"Mike's trick" was to use modern temps along with tree ring data to infer temps going back ~1000 years. In science, a "trick" isn't anything depeptive or nefarious, it's just a way of simplifying or combining things so you can better understand them. The result was the famous "hockey stick" shape showing a marked increase in recent temps.

There was nothing nefarious about it. Mann's methods have been cleared by 6 formal investigations, but more importantly, other scientists using other proxies have confirmed his work. Presuming you're not colorblind, just look at the graph. Multiple colors indicate work by other scientists using other proxies that essentially confirm Mann's work. He was right all along.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1000_Year_T...

Most of the trees around the world have rings that have widened, & wood that has become less dense, recently. However, some northern trees show the opposite pattern, with narrowing rings & denser wood.

This is called the "divergence problem," & it has been much discussed in the literature. Since it didn't fit the broad outlines of the rest of the data, Mann et al threw these data out. This is what Dr Jones meant when he said "hide the decline." It was a decline in tree rings widths in some trees. Of course ALL recent tree ring data were thrown out after "Mike's trick" was applied, so it didn't really matter.

But in their paper, Mann et al did hide it, THEY CALLED ATTENTION TO IT! They asked other scientists to study it & figure out what was going on. Several hypotheses have been put forth.

BTW, deleting emails wasn't "suppression of evidence"; all evidence they had was turned over in freedom of information requests. Some data didn't belong to them, so they COULDN'T release it.

Yes, they threatened some deniers in the emails. But several honest climate scientists have been threatened publicly with bodily harm & death. Deniers have tried to get a LOT of them fired.

There is NO scandal. The scientists did NOTHING wrong.
PHD

Cibolo, TX

#23560 Feb 1, 2013
Amused Slew wrote:
YYes ?? Poor P-ppppenny...
Of course, I'm dead, just like your Global Warming credibility.
If you REALLY want a laugh, imagine Penny putting all those "judging marks" up after we copy/paste posts....
Hi, Mistake a minute P-P-Penny,
How are Sheldon and Leonard...
Ps- Almost a moron, stick with it.
People say that you are the perfect idiot. I say that you are not perfect, but you are doing alright.
Ordinarily people live and learn. You just live.
More from the posting dead that never learn or live. Poor UNAmused Stewed.
PHD

Cibolo, TX

#23561 Feb 1, 2013
Wallop10 wrote:
<quoted text>
Scientists do not support Gore,
Al Gore supports the scientists.
GW scientific case was established long before Al Gore's documentary. For example:
http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/obj...
Walloped, walloped, walloped all day long. How are those walloped tires working for you?
SpaceBlues

United States

#23562 Feb 1, 2013
Wallop10 wrote:
<quoted text>
Scientists do not support Gore,
Al Gore supports the scientists.
GW scientific case was established long before Al Gore's documentary. For example:
http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/obj...
Indeed. I watched yesterday Al Gore interview by Charlie Rose.

He was shining bright in every subject but especially on climate change. His new book must be a great read.
PHD

Cibolo, TX

#23563 Feb 1, 2013
"WOW" the solar panel guy gets thanks for conserving energy. I would disagree with his scientific science fiction. It must be correct the spaced out spacedoutblues said it is. More scare tactics form the tax extractors.
Amused Slew

Kent, WA

#23564 Feb 1, 2013
YYes ?? Poor P-ppppenny...
Of course, I'm dead, just like your Global Warming credibility.
If you REALLY want a laugh, imagine Penny putting all those "judging marks" up after we copy/paste posts....
Hi, Mistake a minute P-P-Penny,
How are Sheldon and Leonard...
Ps- Almost a moron, stick with it.
People say that you are the perfect idiot. I say that you are not perfect, but you are doing alright.
Ordinarily people live and learn. You just live
PHD

Cibolo, TX

#23565 Feb 1, 2013
More of the dead postiong called UNAmused Stewed The UNAmused Stewed never learned or lived. Poor UNAmused Stewed will anyone out there send it flowers?
Amused Slew

Kent, WA

#23566 Feb 1, 2013
YYes ?? Poor P-ppppenny...

Of course, I'm "postiong" dead, just like your Global Warming credibility.

If you REALLY want a laugh, imagine Penny putting all those "judging marks" up after we copy/paste posts....

Hi, Mistake a minute P-P-Penny,
How are Sheldon and Leonard...
Ps- Almost a moron, stick with it.
People say that you are the perfect idiot. I say that you are not perfect, but you are doing alright.
Ordinarily people live and learn. You just live

Since: Nov 11

Westerville, OH

#23567 Feb 1, 2013
Amused Slew wrote:
Sure, a nutcase source, but a nut-so writer....

A "hacker" ??? Yeah, there's an honest "source" ?? LMAOROTFU~!
Is that all you guys have? That is was a hacker?

Even if my old gramma had done it the fact remains the same, the scientist colluded to fool libtards like you!!!

See? Liberals are brain dead hypocrites easy to fool. Ask Al Gore!!!

Since: Nov 11

Westerville, OH

#23568 Feb 1, 2013
dem wrote:
<quoted text>Stupid fkn baggers are funny.
Liberal's SIN:

S.hift topic
I.gnore facts
N.ame calling

Since: Nov 11

Westerville, OH

#23569 Feb 1, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Indeed. I watched yesterday Al Gore interview by Charlie Rose.

He was shining bright in every subject but especially on climate change. His new book must be a great read.
If liberals are true to history, Al Gore will become the most admired Green leader of the Liberals, just as Bill Clinton became the most adored person for the feminists after he sexual harassed Monica Lewinsky!!!

See? Liberals are not just hypocrites they are also brain dead easy to fool hypocrites.
Ms Deborah Wood

Spokane, WA

#23570 Feb 1, 2013
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Ms Deborah Wood

Spokane, WA

#23571 Feb 1, 2013
Need a Loan to get back on your feet?I'm sure your credit is better than mine and these particular company helped me out.You can loan upto 3,500USD to 10million dollars..visit their website...www.expresscreditser vices.com and apply online...

Since: Jan 13

Fairfax, VA

#23572 Feb 1, 2013
martinezjosei wrote:
<quoted text>
If liberals are true to history, Al Gore will become the most admired Green leader of the Liberals, just as Bill Clinton became the most adored person for the feminists after he sexual harassed Monica Lewinsky!!!
See? Liberals are not just hypocrites they are also brain dead easy to fool hypocrites.
Er. Monica hit on Bill Clinton first. Nice try.

Shouldn't the poster boy for Repubs be Schwarzenegger and his maid?

I see you ingnored ALL the substance we posted.
seems titillating sex scandals is all your brain can muster.

Sad. You share this trait with PennyHD.
Amused Slew

Kent, WA

#23573 Feb 1, 2013
martinezjosei wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that all you guys have? That is was a hacker?
Even if my old gramma had done it the fact remains the same, the scientist colluded to fool libtards like you!!!
See? Liberals are brain dead hypocrites easy to fool. Ask Al Gore!!!
A guy seals my watch, I don't leave my checkbook out.

You're saying a criminal is a source and he found the best authority's work product ??? Nice "coincidence" ???

Yeah, we're the folks who've gotten it wrong, your criminal guy's a saint....SARCASM !!!

Man, you're too right to think rationally !!
Colon Powell

Neenah, WI

#23574 Feb 1, 2013
Amused Slew wrote:
<quoted text>A guy seals my watch, I don't leave my checkbook out.
You're saying a criminal is a source and he found the best authority's work product ??? Nice "coincidence" ???
Yeah, we're the folks who've gotten it wrong, your criminal guy's a saint....SARCASM !!!
Man, you're too right to think rationally !!
My brown ring is on fire after the job you did on it. Or it could be from global warming.
Amused Slew

Kent, WA

#23575 Feb 1, 2013
A guy seals my watch, I don't leave my checkbook out.
You're saying a criminal is a source and he found the best authority's work product ??? Nice "coincidence" ???
Yeah, we're the folks who've gotten it wrong, your criminal guy's a saint....SARCASM !!!
Man, you're too right to think rationally !!

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