Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,302

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work for a living

Lebanon, OH

#24400 Apr 23, 2013
pay wrote:
<quoted text>
So when your anniversary comes up at work, don't you hope you get a raise? Of course they are going to ask for that stuff. the answer may be "no" and they may say "ok". Obviously, you have never been a part of a negotiation.
I love the way you guys think you deserve whatever, you don't appreciate anything. Go teach in Dayton they pay more may be you will be happy then. I wish my company had more money for raises, but I work more for less because if we don't we are out of business and I am unemployed. What I have isn't the best but it beats trying to find a job in this economy.
They want how much

Columbus, OH

#24401 Apr 23, 2013
They wanted Obamacare now the teachers union can have their members pay for the thing. Remember it's going to lower your healthcare costs. How can the union lose by believing in our great leader? We should be reducing our payments since it's going down so much.
R U Sure

Piqua, OH

#24402 Apr 23, 2013
pay wrote:
<quoted text>
So when your anniversary comes up at work, don't you hope you get a raise? Of course they are going to ask for that stuff. the answer may be "no" and they may say "ok". Obviously, you have never been a part of a negotiation.
Teachers Union Negotiation Indoctrination Class on How to Break the Taxpayers Backs:
"Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them." (Frederick Douglass)
In Springboro, the SEA has found out that school district taxpayers will not allow unnecessary taxation levied upon us
by pro-levy lovers, emotionally blackmailing taxpayers for increased taxes on our homes, just so that our techers can have increased salaries and more generous compensations/benfits packages for themselves.
Workers in the private sector are living with the "new normal of our bad economic times" doing more for less, just in order to hold on to our jobs.
Public service workers must learn to live within the new normal of private sector workers. We ARE OUT OF MONEY! Why can't government union employees in public service jobs understand that when the private sector workers run out of money, It means the public services workers are out of luck in runing levies emotionally blackmailing taxpayers for MORE money!
appreciate

Youngstown, OH

#24403 Apr 23, 2013
work for a living wrote:
<quoted text>
I love the way you guys think you deserve whatever, you don't appreciate anything. Go teach in Dayton they pay more may be you will be happy then. I wish my company had more money for raises, but I work more for less because if we don't we are out of business and I am unemployed. What I have isn't the best but it beats trying to find a job in this economy.
"What I have isn't the best"......sounds like you don't appreciate your job either. You should be more excited about it. You expect the teachers to be.
Genius

Dayton, OH

#24404 Apr 23, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Just Watching wrote:
Genius, it would be a 22 fold increase in achievement from where they are now.
9 kids out of 1023 scored a grade better than a C on the OAA test in 8th grade math. That means they had 9/10 of 1% score better than a C on the OAA test in 8th grade math.
A 22 fold increase would mean that another 195 kids got the education their taxpayers were funding.
Now Genius, what do we do with a failing system that is not providing the education the taxpayers are funding in the city of Springboro?
In Dayton, we have virtually no say in how they operate.
In Springboro, we do have a voice that can cry out for us to deliver an actual education to the 2000 plus children who are now not receiving the one the taxpayers have funded.
We can and should demand better of a system that pays our teachers $30-$66/hour. The results we saw in 2012 are not uncommon.
2012 80% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
2011 79% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
2010 80% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
This is a systemic problem that cheats all children regardless of race, creed, color, or place of national origin.
Ms. Cook has seen these results repeated during her tenure as Principal at the Junior HIgh, how long can we tolerate this lack of actual learning and leadership?
Here we have three straight years of documented failure of 4 out of 5 children in Math. Go back to 2008 and you will see the same level of achievement.
http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages ...
Would you have us believe all of these children are not very bright in Math, our teachers are incompetent, our parents do not care, our children are not good test takers, or the test is too hard,?
The truth is the Emperor has no clothes.
The system and methods we are using now do not work. If they did, the children would pass the test with real scores that reflect actual learning.
These test are not MIT tough entrance exams, they are pretty basic and elemental. They even let you use calculators and give you the formulas you need.
What is the definition of insanity?
Doing the same thing the same way over and over and expecting different results each time.
Our system is insane and we cannot waste another year of our children's education on repeating the same program.
Still have not answer why 20% is "sterling" for Dayton children. A lot of talk but no answer. Last time I checked all children were the same. Please explain why 20% is "sterling."
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24405 Apr 23, 2013
pay wrote:
<quoted text>
Its called a starting point. So is the BOE's proposal. Thats why everyone should let them negotiate first before we say the sky is falling.
What the union proposed was not a starting point to start serious negotiations in this economic climate.

Is the union just economically tone deaf to the circumstances surrounding them? Perhaps a drive around the nearby area will provide a clue.

This greedy grab bag of wants on steroids not only does a disservice to our teachers but to our pocketbooks as well.

Wading through an agreement of this length filled with the much hogwash is costing the taxpayers a fortune in legal bills.

Why don't we start with vacation homes on the beaches for each teacher? That is every bit as ludicrous as what they are asking for now and has as much chance of passing muster.

Every dollar we waste on this nonsense is another dollar that doesn't get to the kids or the teachers.

How many do we wish to waste on the idea that the union should have to pay less for health insurance, and let the taxpayers eat more of the costs? The union wants protection against increases, let them do what everyone else does, make economically rational choices that work best for them given the constraints of money available.

That is what the rest of the world does that is located in the private sector.
Just Watching

Dayton, OH

#24406 Apr 23, 2013
work for a living wrote:
<quoted text>
I love the way you guys think you deserve whatever, you don't appreciate anything. Go teach in Dayton they pay more may be you will be happy then. I wish my company had more money for raises, but I work more for less because if we don't we are out of business and I am unemployed. What I have isn't the best but it beats trying to find a job in this economy.
Just checked there are no openings in Dayton for teaching positions. Everyone must be happy there. Please advise if one comes open.
Try again

Cleveland, OH

#24408 Apr 23, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Just checked there are no openings in Dayton for teaching positions. Everyone must be happy there. Please advise if one comes open.
Keep trying, but be careful what you wish for, it might come true.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24409 Apr 23, 2013
Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
Still have not answer why 20% is "sterling" for Dayton children. A lot of talk but no answer. Last time I checked all children were the same. Please explain why 20% is "sterling."
Perhaps you would care to elucidate.
pay

Springboro, OH

#24410 Apr 24, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
What the union proposed was not a starting point to start serious negotiations in this economic climate.
Is the union just economically tone deaf to the circumstances surrounding them? Perhaps a drive around the nearby area will provide a clue.
This greedy grab bag of wants on steroids not only does a disservice to our teachers but to our pocketbooks as well.
Wading through an agreement of this length filled with the much hogwash is costing the taxpayers a fortune in legal bills.
Why don't we start with vacation homes on the beaches for each teacher? That is every bit as ludicrous as what they are asking for now and has as much chance of passing muster.
Every dollar we waste on this nonsense is another dollar that doesn't get to the kids or the teachers.
How many do we wish to waste on the idea that the union should have to pay less for health insurance, and let the taxpayers eat more of the costs? The union wants protection against increases, let them do what everyone else does, make economically rational choices that work best for them given the constraints of money available.
That is what the rest of the world does that is located in the private sector.
The BOE is not proposing to give a dime to the teachers, so "every dollar we waste on this nonsense" was never going to get to the teachers anyway under the BOE's INITIAL proposal.

And perhaps a drive to the "nearby area" would provide a clue? Please define "nearby area".
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24411 Apr 24, 2013
pay wrote:
<quoted text>
The BOE is not proposing to give a dime to the teachers, so "every dollar we waste on this nonsense" was never going to get to the teachers anyway under the BOE's INITIAL proposal.
And perhaps a drive to the "nearby area" would provide a clue? Please define "nearby area".
Nearby area, up and down I75 north of Springboro, up Dixie, around Needmore, around Woodman, try Pioneer business park. All of those empty buildings that were full 6 years ago are your clues.
There will be $500-$700,000 available for use once our retirees leave the buildings. Each year this phenomenon occurs, please note that this is not a one time event. Each year some retire and are replaced by new faces, others move or quit the profession. The money the ones leaving once made is now left to be used elsewhere, and if you are doing a good enough job, some may be coming your way.
Most businesses that manage to stay in business for a long time do so because the match their expenditures with their revenues. A school system must run within the financial constraints the taxpayers have provided.
pay

Springboro, OH

#24412 Apr 24, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Nearby area, up and down I75 north of Springboro, up Dixie, around Needmore, around Woodman, try Pioneer business park. All of those empty buildings that were full 6 years ago are your clues.
There will be $500-$700,000 available for use once our retirees leave the buildings. Each year this phenomenon occurs, please note that this is not a one time event. Each year some retire and are replaced by new faces, others move or quit the profession. The money the ones leaving once made is now left to be used elsewhere, and if you are doing a good enough job, some may be coming your way.
Most businesses that manage to stay in business for a long time do so because the match their expenditures with their revenues. A school system must run within the financial constraints the taxpayers have provided.
Interesting....I don't see many vacant buildings on Pioneer.

I thought you don't like comparing Springboro and the schools to other places? Now, it is convenient to do so? The economy here seems to be doing just fine.
disgraceful

Youngstown, OH

#24413 Apr 24, 2013
Why does the school board continue to send out emails about the boosters? You know who was responsible for finding the discrepancy in the booster books. But yet you are trying to take credit for something that is not correct. The discrepancy was found by the boosters not the finance committee of the board. It was not the "Transparency" of the board, it was the Athletic Boosters that found the problem. Quit lying to the public. It is just making you look guilty.
Hold On

United States

#24414 Apr 24, 2013
disgraceful wrote:
Why does the school board continue to send out emails about the boosters? You know who was responsible for finding the discrepancy in the booster books. But yet you are trying to take credit for something that is not correct. The discrepancy was found by the boosters not the finance committee of the board. It was not the "Transparency" of the board, it was the Athletic Boosters that found the problem. Quit lying to the public. It is just making you look guilty.
Word!!
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24415 Apr 24, 2013
pay wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting....I don't see many vacant buildings on Pioneer.
I thought you don't like comparing Springboro and the schools to other places? Now, it is convenient to do so? The economy here seems to be doing just fine.
You should look a little harder, our school district is not supported by employers in Springboro but by those across the region.

The fact that you have a hard time seeing such is telling in its clarity.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24416 Apr 24, 2013
disgraceful wrote:
Why does the school board continue to send out emails about the boosters? You know who was responsible for finding the discrepancy in the booster books. But yet you are trying to take credit for something that is not correct. The discrepancy was found by the boosters not the finance committee of the board. It was not the "Transparency" of the board, it was the Athletic Boosters that found the problem. Quit lying to the public. It is just making you look guilty.
You are absolutely, positively, 100% correct, after only 20 years of negligence they were prodded into looking at their books and then they discovered 300 plus checks written to cash or to the treasurer.

Twenty years and $1,000,000 plus (in my humble opinion) dollars later, the booster leadership finally and hesitantly looked at their books.

300 plus checks since 2004 to the tune of $439,000 written to the same man or to cash.

300 plus checks in the check statements and the check book written to the same man or to cash.

Twenty years of uncounted cash handed to this man to deposit, do you think he had any qualms about cash?

Why did the Fan Store not show a donation to the boosters until after Petroni and Rigano were elected?

The Fan Store is an arm of the boosters. Where is the accounting there?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0_emPjNYG-pS...

Look in the first 7 pages of donations to the Boosters and find undated entries at the end of 2011. Let me know if you find any earlier, to where did that money disappear?

Had it been business as usual, we would still be having the honor of having our children's resources looted.

Thankfully we had a Budget and Finance Committee that did not take "we will get it for you later" as an honest approach. They persisted and pressed the issue forward until finally, after 20 years, someone looked at the checkbook.

It didn't take Sherlock Holmes to solve this case, it took a couple guys not taking platitudes for a real answer.
Just Watching

Dayton, OH

#24417 Apr 24, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you would care to elucidate.
Let me elucidate for you. When you make statements like yours that 20% for Dayton children would be "sterling" it is clear that you are a racist! If you not then answer why 20% would be "sterling" for Dayton children.
What

Youngstown, OH

#24418 Apr 24, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
You should look a little harder, our school district is not supported by employers in Springboro but by those across the region.
The fact that you have a hard time seeing such is telling in its clarity.
Huh????? So businesses in Dayton support the schools? With tax dollars? Please provide some clarity.
They want how much

Delphos, OH

#24419 Apr 24, 2013
What wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh????? So businesses in Dayton support the schools? With tax dollars? Please provide some clarity.
I think it means people who live here work elsewhere
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24420 Apr 25, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me elucidate for you. When you make statements like yours that 20% for Dayton children would be "sterling" it is clear that you are a racist! If you not then answer why 20% would be "sterling" for Dayton children.
It is clear by your statements you have no idea who you are addressing or the author's heritage.

Simply by screaming "Racist!" does not win an argument , it is no argument.

You are aware that yellow children, brown children, white children, and mixed heritage also attend Dayton Public Schools?

The fact that only 9/10's of 1% or just 9 children total out of 1023 can pass a basic 8th grade OAA test is not cause for your concern?

The fact that these children are being cheated out of a future is not of concern to you?

These abysmal results is what demonstrates the absolute lack of learning going on in the present school systems across this state, not just Springboro.

Once again, you will be hard pressed to say that all Dayton Public teachers are that incompetent.

Once again, you will be hard pressed to say that all Dayton Public children are that dumb.

Once again, you will be hard pressed to say that it is for lack of money spent on education, Dayton Public Schools spend nearly 2x the amount we do per pupil and get less than 5% of the results.

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