Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,418

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Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23501 Feb 18, 2013
Please Explain wrote:
<quoted text>
How is a college course weighted 15% less than a high school course?
Mr. Malone weights an A/P class taken at the high school 1.1 times the percentage earned

Mr. Malone weights a college course taken on a college campus to compute a student's GPA as:

A=95%
B=85%
C=75%
D=65%

http://www.springboro.org/docs/PSEOpresentati...

page 11

If you had scored thusly at the high school on an A/P class the student would have received the calculation below to compute a student's GPA

A=100x1.1=110
B=85x1.1=93.5
C=75x1.1=82.5
D=65x1.1=71.5

How is this fair for the student or the parent looking for ways to reduce the cost of higher education for their children?
Signals

Youngstown, OH

#23503 Feb 19, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Malone weights an A/P class taken at the high school 1.1 times the percentage earned
Mr. Malone weights a college course taken on a college campus to compute a student's GPA as:
A=95%
B=85%
C=75%
D=65%
http://www.springboro.org/docs/PSEOpresentati...
page 11
If you had scored thusly at the high school on an A/P class the student would have received the calculation below to compute a student's GPA
A=100x1.1=110
B=85x1.1=93.5
C=75x1.1=82.5
D=65x1.1=71.5
How is this fair for the student or the parent looking for ways to reduce the cost of higher education for their children?
Get your FACTS straight DOUG! You are a loser! The college courses taken through PSEO AND the grades are NOT Dr. Malone's grades - it is what the STATE mandates. You don't like take it up with them. You are bitching b/c you like to bitch! Get a life!
Blame someone else for your unhappy life!
November Promise

Girard, OH

#23504 Feb 19, 2013
hot off the press wrote:
Globally, the U.S. is "losing ground" every year to other countries, despite spending the most per student in the world.
Ohio has increased per-student spending, while test scores have remained flat, Kohls said. In addition to spending, she also said smaller class sizes have not proven to be as effective in student performance. Class sizes in the U.S. have decreased, while performance has remained flat. Other countries are averaging class sizes of 30-38 and outperforming the U.S., which averages 23-28 students.
Hey Lisa shove that in your pipe and smoke it
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23505 Feb 19, 2013
Signals wrote:
<quoted text>
Get your FACTS straight DOUG! You are a loser! The college courses taken through PSEO AND the grades are NOT Dr. Malone's grades - it is what the STATE mandates. You don't like take it up with them. You are bitching b/c you like to bitch! Get a life!
Blame someone else for your unhappy life!
I looked in the policy book of this school district and was unable to find anything on weighting of grades. I also looked in the Ohio Revised Code and could discover nothing in relation to weighting of courses and grades.

If you have some resources that document your point, please share them with us all.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23506 Feb 19, 2013
A nation's choice between spending on military defense and spending on civilian goods has often been posed as "guns versus butter." But understanding the choices of many nations' political leaders might be helped by examining the contrast between their runaway spending on pensions while skimping on military defense.
Huge pensions for retired government workers can be found from small municipalities to national governments on both sides of the Atlantic. There is a reason. For elected officials, pensions are virtually the ideal thing to spend money on, politically speaking. Many kinds of spending of the taxpayers' money win votes from the recipients. But raising taxes to pay for this spending loses votes from the taxpayers. Pensions offer a way out of this dilemma for politicians.

Creating pensions that offer generous retirement benefits wins votes in the present by promising spending in the future. Promises cost nothing in the short run -- and elections are held in the short run, long before the pensions are due.

By contrast, private insurance companies that sell annuities are forced by law to set aside enough assets to cover the cost of the annuities they have promised to pay. But nobody can force the government to do that -- and most governments do not.

This means that it is only a matter of time before pensions are due to be paid and there is not enough money set aside to pay for them. This applies to Social Security and other government pensions here, as well as to all sorts of pensions in other countries overseas.

Eventually, the truth will come out that there is just not enough money in the till to pay what retirees were promised. But eventually can be a long time.

A politician can win quite a few elections between now and eventually -- and be living in comfortable retirement by the time it is somebody else's problem to cope with the impossibility of paying retirees the pensions they were promised.

Inflating the currency and paying pensions in dollars that won't buy as much is just one of the ways for the government to seem to be keeping its promises, while in fact welshing on the deal.

From Dr. Thomas Sowell's column dated 2/19/13
New to the sceene

Springboro, OH

#23507 Feb 19, 2013
Boro Mom wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm more interested in ACT and SAT scores then a rather meaningless test. I talked to my girls and they laughed when I asked if it was difficult. They said they knew they'd pass and didn't really care about the test. It was very frustrating to hear that answer and realizing that they could have done better. I'm guessing more students feel the same way...maybe some kind of scholarships attached to scores could make students interested in trying hard?
Students at Springboro are not challenged. A school that challenges them is what these kids need. The union activists instead of thinking of the kids took community members and whipped them into a frenzy and brought them to a meeting where they shouted and ridiculed our school board for thinking of the kids first. Shame on these Babb and Bowman and Greenberg and Carlisle for doing the bidding if the union and telling people lies that a conversion school would hurt the kids. A conversion school would challenge these kids and they know it they just want the union to run education and a conversion school may not have to be run by the union. School choice is what we need. Let the money follow the kids and let schools compete for their business.

Shame on you people for hurting our kids just to please your friends and peers. You people embarrass this town with your divisive behaviors
New to the sceene

Springboro, OH

#23508 Feb 19, 2013
Thank You wrote:
Change is especially important when it comes to
K-12 education. Reformers often appropriately use the term "kids first" when it comes to our educational priorities. Too many times, however, "adults first" is the prevailing philosophy. That has to change, and thanks to Kelly Kohls, it is changing in our Springboro school district.
Springboro's old philosophy was like that of many public school districts: Teachers were given annual "step" raises and administrators received nice salary perks, whether there was money in the district's budget or not. If the district couldn't afford it, voters were expected to approve tax hikes to pay for it all, or accept cuts to student services.
That old "adults first" approach was on full display in 2009, when district officials chose to address their financial woes by eliminating busing for high school students, laying off 30 district employees and raising pay-to-play fees for after school activities.
Not long after that, Kelly Kohls, a mother of five and a former college professor, joined the Springboro school board and a new "children first" philosophy began to emerge.
Kohls' approach of challenging the "business as usual" mindset has proven very effective.
The district now requires employees to contribute more for their health insurance plans. Backdoor bonuses for administrators have been eliminated, annual teacher "step" raises have been frozen, and a variety of spending cuts have been implemented.
Kohls' self-described "kids first" approach has caused a lot of heartburn among Springboro's school establishment. During her tenure on the board, district officials have publicly blamed Kohls for the defeat of a $6 million school levy, the departures of a superintendent, a district treasurer, a school board president and the large turnover in school administrators.
(Springboro families and taxpaying homeowners continue applauding in appreciation and continued support the good work of putting "our kids" first).
Members of the Springboro Education Association - the local teachers union - use public schoool board meetings to excoriate Kohls for opposing teacher pay raises and proposing budget cuts.
Kohls response is that: some people get so entrenched in the old philosophy that it's tough to get them to think whether or not something is going to help the kids.
Voters seem to agree. In November 2011, two additional "fiscal conservatives" were elected and took majority control of the five member school board, with the beginning term January 2012.
Kohls says her approach has been to "ask a lot of question" and to explain the board's spending decisions to the community.
Since January, 2012, the new board has enshrined its "children first" philosophy in a series of 29 goals, which include setting district money aside to help prepare students for the ACT test, among other things.
The board has switched to zero based budgeting, meaning that school budgets will not automatically increase every year. The board is also developing policies that prioritize district spending, to ensure that student-centered spending needs are met before employee benefits and wage increases are considered. Kohls is crafting a point system to determine which employees will receive bonuses from the available funds.....
and this is just the beginning...
Thank you, Mrs. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, Mr. Rigano.
Where was this published?
New to the sceene

Springboro, OH

#23509 Feb 19, 2013
hot off the press wrote:
Increased spending and smaller class sizes are not predictors of success in the classroom, according to Springboro Board of Education President.
Kelly Kohls said she has become gravely concerned over education in the past 5 years. "I'm driven to change education in this county". Globally, the U.S. is "losing ground" every year to other countries, despite spending the most per student in the world.
Ohio has increased per-student spending, while test scores have remained flat, Kohls said. In addition to spending, she also said smaller class sizes have not proven to be as effective in student performance. Class sizes in the U.S. have decreased, while performance has remained flat. Other countries are averaging class sizes of 30-38 and outperforming the U.S., which averages 23-28 students.
Kohls said school board members are larely to blame, and parents need to have more initiative when it comes to educating their children. Kohls also said a majority of teachers "are great people, are in for the right reasons, but somehow the system is not working for our kids."
The Ohio Graduation Test grades students using a low standard where a student can answer 43% of the questions on math and reading and still receive a "proficient" grade. "I think just raising the bar isn't going to help us," Kohls said. "We scan't even bring the kids to the standards we have. All it's going to mean is that you have a bar that a greater percentage of your students don't make it to. So it's a system failure, that I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel yet."
Kohls said education leaders need to treat education like a business.
Kohls encouraged people to be more involved with the education system, and run for school board. She said schools need help educating both the district employees and the community.
Where was this published?
clean it up

Springboro, OH

#23510 Feb 19, 2013
Signals wrote:
<quoted text>
Get your FACTS straight DOUG! You are a loser! The college courses taken through PSEO AND the grades are NOT Dr. Malone's grades - it is what the STATE mandates. You don't like take it up with them. You are bitching b/c you like to bitch! Get a life!
Blame someone else for your unhappy life!
Signals, You are dead wrong. You need to get your facts straight. maybe a little soap in the mouth also.
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#23511 Feb 19, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Malone weights an A/P class taken at the high school 1.1 times the percentage earned
Mr. Malone weights a college course taken on a college campus to compute a student's GPA as:
A=95%
B=85%
C=75%
D=65%
http://www.springboro.org/docs/PSEOpresentati...
page 11
If you had scored thusly at the high school on an A/P class the student would have received the calculation below to compute a student's GPA
A=100x1.1=110
B=85x1.1=93.5
C=75x1.1=82.5
D=65x1.1=71.5
How is this fair for the student or the parent looking for ways to reduce the cost of higher education for their children?
I would be more worried about colleges not accepting PSEO credits.
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#23512 Feb 19, 2013
Boro Mom wrote:
Would you like the district to cast aside a rating that the State of Ohio gave it? I think everyone can agree that the scores and system is wrong, but don't cast aside the hard work that some students put into getting our schools that rating. From my understanding, which I'll admit isn't much, the OAA and OGT are comprehensive exams. Both my kids were proficient on the OGT and scored 24 and 27 on the ACT. I'm happy they scored well enough to get into the schools they chose and are doing fine. It's ridiculous that a single test can mean so much to a school.
So according to Just Watching your children were failing. However, they scored very well on the ACT and got in to the colleges they chose. Doesn't seem like failing to me!
Thank You

Piqua, OH

#23513 Feb 19, 2013
Thank You wrote:
Change is especially important when it comes to
K-12 education. Reformers often appropriately use the term "kids first" when it comes to our educational priorities. Too many times, however, "adults first" is the prevailing philosophy. That has to change, and thanks to Kelly Kohls, it is changing in our Springboro school district.
Springboro's old philosophy was like that of many public school districts: Teachers were given annual "step" raises and administrators received nice salary perks, whether there was money in the district's budget or not. If the district couldn't afford it, voters were expected to approve tax hikes to pay for it all, or accept cuts to student services.
That old "adults first" approach was on full display in 2009, when district officials chose to address their financial woes by eliminating busing for high school students, laying off 30 district employees and raising pay-to-play fees for after school activities.
Not long after that, Kelly Kohls, a mother of five and a former college professor, joined the Springboro school board and a new "children first" philosophy began to emerge.
Kohls' approach of challenging the "business as usual" mindset has proven very effective.
The district now requires employees to contribute more for their health insurance plans. Backdoor bonuses for administrators have been eliminated, annual teacher "step" raises have been frozen, and a variety of spending cuts have been implemented.
Kohls' self-described "kids first" approach has caused a lot of heartburn among Springboro's school establishment. During her tenure on the board, district officials have publicly blamed Kohls for the defeat of a $6 million school levy, the departures of a superintendent, a district treasurer, a school board president and the large turnover in school administrators.
(Springboro families and taxpaying homeowners continue applauding in appreciation and continued support the good work of putting "our kids" first).
Members of the Springboro Education Association - the local teachers union - use public schoool board meetings to excoriate Kohls for opposing teacher pay raises and proposing budget cuts.
Kohls response is that: some people get so entrenched in the old philosophy that it's tough to get them to think whether or not something is going to help the kids.
Voters seem to agree. In November 2011, two additional "fiscal conservatives" were elected and took majority control of the five member school board, with the beginning term January 2012.
Kohls says her approach has been to "ask a lot of question" and to explain the board's spending decisions to the community.
Since January, 2012, the new board has enshrined its "children first" philosophy in a series of 29 goals, which include setting district money aside to help prepare students for the ACT test, among other things.
The board has switched to zero based budgeting, meaning that school budgets will not automatically increase every year. The board is also developing policies that prioritize district spending, to ensure that student-centered spending needs are met before employee benefits and wage increases are considered. Kohls is crafting a point system to determine which employees will receive bonuses from the available funds.....
and this is just the beginning...
Thank you, Mrs. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, Mr. Rigano.
Information in the above informative and encouraging article by Ben Velderman was found on the website: EAGnews.org

(This comment at the end are word Thank You added and should be repeated often throughout our school district/community).
....and this is just the beginning ...
Thank you, Mrs. Kohls, Mr. Petroni, Mr. Rigano
SOS to BOE

Piqua, OH

#23514 Feb 19, 2013
Given the latest news from Michigan regarding the passing of Right to Work legislation in that state it is encouraging to know that Ohio is right behind them. No longer should teachers be coerced into to participating in an organization that contradicts many teachers moral convictions. See links below. Forced unionism is a Marxist philosophy and has no place in Springboro. Yes a teacher can opt out but must still pay a large portion of the Membership dues. How about giving the teachers the ability to opt and an pay nothing.

The Pro Union thugs that attend your meetings undermine and interfere with the Board's efforts of promoting fiscally responsible Pro Student/tax Payer initiativeís. The noise they make always leads back to whatís best for the teachers union interests with little concern for the Student or the Tax payer. Please understand I am thankful for the many great teachers in Springboro, itís the Union who we have issues with.

Please do not cave to their Thug Tactics, the Community is behind you and appreciate your efforts to be fiscally responsible. Unelected Union Sympathizers have no platform to constantly harass the BOE members as they are neither Staff nor Union Members. As Union puppets their only purpose is create division and discontentment within the Schools and Community.

The best thing that can happen is to make Right to Work a Law here in Ohio and it is coming. http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/12/1...

Check out what the NEA/Teachers Union stands for regarding Homosexuality, Liberal and Christian viewpoints. In my opinion Teachers Unions are like affirmative action, they force employers to compensate groups of individuals based on the demands of the group rather than individual performance/contributions. It is insulting to individual liberty and personal responsibility and is basically a legal form of extortion. Do we reakky want organizations with these kinds of radical agendas shaping our schools ideology?

See the links below and youíll realize what weíre dealing with:

http://www.missionamerica.com/enews/enews_Mar...

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.a...

&fe ature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action...

Thank you for your efforts,
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23515 Feb 19, 2013
Signals wrote:
<quoted text>
Get your FACTS straight DOUG! You are a loser! The college courses taken through PSEO AND the grades are NOT Dr. Malone's grades - it is what the STATE mandates. You don't like take it up with them. You are bitching b/c you like to bitch! Get a life!
Blame someone else for your unhappy life!
From the Ohio Department of Education website

http://education.ohio.gov/GD/Templates/Pages/...

Do courses taken in the postsecondary education options program count toward the Diploma with Honors?

Yes. Diploma with Honors rules specifically allow for postsecondary options to count toward Diploma with Honors credit. Caution: Check with the school to determine how PSEO units are calculated.

Odd that you would need to check with your particular school in regards to how PSEO units are calculated. If it is state mandated, would not the Ohio Department of Education be aware of that fact?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23516 Feb 19, 2013
Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
I would be more worried about colleges not accepting PSEO credits.
Each college that participates in the PSEO program has a link to a nationwide data base that cross checks whether or not the course you are taking will be accepted by the institution you wish to attend.

Perhaps this will assuage your heartfelt concern.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23517 Feb 19, 2013
Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
So according to Just Watching your children were failing. However, they scored very well on the ACT and got in to the colleges they chose. Doesn't seem like failing to me!
The woman does not mention whether or not her children took the test but one time or many? Did they take any ACT prep classes like the one Mr. Rigano had added to the course of study at the high school?

Graduating Proficient leaves a lot to be desired educationally, and the OGT is only a test that measures what the child learned in grades 1-9. The range of correct answers a child must produce on the test to be rated Proficient range from 41%-63% in reading. Less than 2/3 of the material mastered to be at the top end of Proficient? Hardly a reason to shout from the roof tops.

Children can get their act together on their own from their sophomore through senior year.

Anecdotal tales placed anonymously on a blog are hardly conclusive of anything.

Verifiable, documented facts and sources provide a much greater basis for rational conclusions than stories written for a blog.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23518 Feb 19, 2013
New to the sceene wrote:
<quoted text>
Where was this published?
Tiffin, Ohio not a bad job of reporting by this newspaper. Who, what, when, where, and how rather than an interjection of the reporter's personal biases.

http://www.advertiser-tribune.com/page/conten...

Now let me know what you disagree with and why.

And don't forget to document your source rebuttal material to make your argument more enjoyable.
Please Explain

Piqua, OH

#23519 Feb 19, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr. Malone weights an A/P class taken at the high school 1.1 times the percentage earned
Mr. Malone weights a college course taken on a college campus to compute a student's GPA as:
A=95%
B=85%
C=75%
D=65%
http://www.springboro.org/docs/PSEOpresentati...
page 11
If you had scored thusly at the high school on an A/P class the student would have received the calculation below to compute a student's GPA
A=100x1.1=110
B=85x1.1=93.5
C=75x1.1=82.5
D=65x1.1=71.5
How is this fair for the student or the parent looking for ways to reduce the cost of higher education for their children?
First off, in the grand scheme of things, I don't think most parents are going to make the decision of AP class vs. PSEO based on this percentage grade different.

The bigger question is why are upper level high school classes weighted the way they are? If a student is willing and able to take the higher level courses then they should accept the grade they get - why should they get 10 extra points added to their grades? If you are so against the "Proficient" definition of the OGT and other tests, then you should be against this type of weighting. Kind of hypocritical don't you think?
Real Hypocrites

Piqua, OH

#23520 Feb 19, 2013
The real hypocrites are educators and politicans who greedily trumpet more money invested in preschool education is getting the most bang for the buck.
These hypocrites promoting "blessings for the least of these" from the false gods of universal preschool are nothing nothing more than union minded worshippers of the false doctrine; preaching that a child will be more competitive in the future global workplace; IF only the Teachers Union can stamp a "dollar per pupil" sign on the
precious little one's forehead, straight from the womb and into a taxpayer-funded public schools classroom with a "union" teacher.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23521 Feb 19, 2013
Please Explain wrote:
<quoted text>
First off, in the grand scheme of things, I don't think most parents are going to make the decision of AP class vs. PSEO based on this percentage grade different.
The bigger question is why are upper level high school classes weighted the way they are? If a student is willing and able to take the higher level courses then they should accept the grade they get - why should they get 10 extra points added to their grades? If you are so against the "Proficient" definition of the OGT and other tests, then you should be against this type of weighting. Kind of hypocritical don't you think?
The reason for weighting of classes is that some classes are much easier to take than others.

Grades determine your GPA and thus one's class standing. According to Mr. Malone, colleges put great stock into a student's GPA and class standing.

Comparing an A garnered in a basic algebra class and an A one earned in a calculus class is not quite the same. Much like different professions pay more money for more prep work up front, academic challenges should be rewarded the same way.

No one expects a MD who puts in 12+ years of rigorous study to be compensated in the same manner as a medical assistant who got their certification in 8-12 months. Academic challenges should be treated in the same manner.

I don't believe it is hypocritical to ask that we not accept ratings that say if you get 32% of the material correct we will deem you a PROFICIENT student in math in the 7th grade. The fact that less than 1/3 of the material mastered makes a student proficient is absolutely absurd.

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