Nation of Islam's Louis Farrakhan wan...

Nation of Islam's Louis Farrakhan wants to rebuild Detroit; he'll meet City Council, speak at church

There are 801 comments on the MLive.com story from May 15, 2013, titled Nation of Islam's Louis Farrakhan wants to rebuild Detroit; he'll meet City Council, speak at church. In it, MLive.com reports that:

Minister Louis Farrakhan, leader of The Nation of Islam, is expected to be in Detroit this week to meet Detroit City Council Members and speak at Fellowship Chapel on the city's west side.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at MLive.com.

Sinajuavi

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#149 May 21, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
I certainly do research, and with mroe reliable sources than wikipedia. LOL!
Perhaps Seeker is too young to remember Iran-Contra. Part of that nefarious business included the movement of cocaine into the USA, as well as missiles to Iranian terrorists and money to the Contras.

Reagan should have been tried at The Hague and then hung.

But the point is, someone did indeed engineer the flow of drugs into the black community, and some of those engineers were working for the Reagan Administration.

The USA govt also actively pursued the destruction of the Black Panther Party, the promotion of “culture-nationalist” and useless racist groups such as U.S. Organization and the NOI, and so on...

Sinajuavi

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#150 May 21, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Great, then show me your source for where crack cocaime originated, and tell us where illegal drug dealing originated. White suburbia?
In L.A. in the 80's and 90's, at which time I resided in that city, when they made mega-busts of cocaine suppliers, they were inevitably in big houses in the suburbs, and often the people running it were white if not “Latino”.

And as I just mentioned, you might want to investigate Iran-Contra.

Sinajuavi

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#151 May 21, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
I think punks, thugs, monsters and criminals and even murderers are far more appropriate words.
Those are common words. I think the problem here is that Savant has at his disposal a larger vocabulary than do you.

Rascal has as harsh a meaning as the words you cite. You're arguing over nothing. Let's call them miscreants, bounders, ne'er-do-wells...

And I'll refer to you as a tendentious bore.

Sinajuavi

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#152 May 21, 2013
Peter Head wrote:
What? Rebuild Detroit?? Are ya kiddin me? That will only be accomplished by brain-washing the black thugs who live there into believing that hard work, dedication, and honesty will bring you out of that hell hole. Now, how you gonna do that? Furthermore, WHO is gonna do that? Hint: it takes parents who teach their offspring how NOT to get pregnant, how NOT to rob & steat, how NOT to be a bad citizen, etc., etc. Again, who will do that? If you think the current population of Detroit will do that, then you may want to buy the Brooklyn bridge.
This is toooo funny!(and ludicrous!)
Many of the social problems of the inner city are the result of bad policy and racism. If welfare forces the man out of the home and makes it easier to receive interminal dole checks than securing employment, if discrimnination makes the job search even more difficult (and don't pretend that isn't still happening), if the perception grows that the entire society is set against the inner-city black person, then the result we are observing is inevitable.

Put whites in that situation and I guarantee they will behave the same way.

How to solve it? The best set of solutions I've seen were contained in the program of the Black Panther Party, but whoops, the government destroyed them.

The solution is largely political and social. Your snide racism certainly will not help.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#153 May 21, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not RELIGION that would be banned. Islam is not a religion per se. It is a social system and political ideology. This is clear from every pronouncement on such matters by any imam or mullah you care to hear.
DING DING DING DING!!! Someone finally gets it. Thank you. There is "some" intelligent life in this forum.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#154 May 21, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
Those are common words. I think the problem here is that Savant has at his disposal a larger vocabulary than do you.
Rascal has as harsh a meaning as the words you cite. You're arguing over nothing. Let's call them miscreants, bounders, ne'er-do-wells...
And I'll refer to you as a tendentious bore.
No, I think that monsters and murderers have a much more accurate meaning.

Sinajuavi

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#155 May 21, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Louis Farrakhan? That would be the worst thing that could happen to Detroit. Why does this guy tell black people to hate so much instead of telling them to take education more seriously rather than taking it as a white man's thing? Education is the answer to all problems but you can't seem to convince the majority of the black community this. And they will remain in the hole they are in until they take it more seriously. It's that simple. And even many who take education seriously, take black history education more seriously than science and math. Black history education is the least practical education that one can receive.
I love the black excuse that blacks do so poorly on the SAT tests because the SAT tests are culturally biased. While I think that excuse is complete nonsense, let's suppose it's true in the English and writing portions of the test. But what about math? How can math be culturally biased? The longer they keep making these nonsense excuses for themselves and do nothing but study black history, the longer they will remain in the hole they are in. It's that simple.
The highschools are teaching black history rather than math and science? Where is this?

And is black history any less valuable than any other history? What's the matter, did you fail history class? Bitter?

Have you been around an inner-city school? I was a schoolteacher in Watts, California. The schools in the inner city are inadequate. I tried like hell to overcome the shortcomings of the SYSTEM, and while I can claim some success with some students, I could not change the way things were structurally and institutionally.

You're so busy snickering over your perception that everything is the fault of black people (which reveals that you are a racist, therefore subhuman scum) that you can't bother looking at things analytically. Individuals live within a social structure, a matrix of choices and options which is not created by the individual. The individual can be blamed for bad choices, but if the structure changes, the options change, and the results change.

Conservatives deny this, pretending there is no social structure, just “individual responsibility”, which in fact is their way of excusing their own rightwing asses from responsibility for the bad political choices they make. They are as guilty as the “rascals” in the inner city for the way things are.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#156 May 21, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps Seeker is too young to remember Iran-Contra. Part of that nefarious business included the movement of cocaine into the USA,
And who was waiting to sell that cocaine on the streets? That started drug dealing in America??? Are you serious? To hear Savant talk, illegal drug dealing started when Richie Cunningham and the Fonz went into black neighborhoods and forced this stuff on them. Come on, be serious. It started in the black community and spread to the white community.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
as well as missiles to Iranian terrorists and money to the Contras.
Reagan should have been tried at The Hague and then hung.
But the point is, someone did indeed engineer the flow of drugs into the black community, and some of those engineers were working for the Reagan Administration.
If they engineered any drug flow, which you haven't proven at all, it would be to who ever was waiting to sell it. Do you think they cared who bought it? And this is assuming that what you say is even true.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
The USA govt also actively pursued the destruction of the Black Panther Party,
By giving them the means to make money selling drugs?
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
the promotion of “culture-nationalist” and useless racist groups such as U.S. Organization and the NOI, and so on...
Ridiculous!! These people don't need any help from anybody. All they need are ways to make money to keep their organizations going. And where do you think they got their money from?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#157 May 21, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
Put whites in that situation and I guarantee they will behave the same way.
Could be, put I was answering the ridiculous claim that drug dealing didn't start in black communities. It most certainly did and the reason is why you are stating. They were poor and they could make great money without any education at all. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
How to solve it? The best set of solutions I've seen were contained in the program of the Black Panther Party, but whoops, the government destroyed them.
The solution is largely political and social. Your snide racism certainly will not help.
How to solve it? How about if the majority of black people start taking education sesriously rather than thinking of it as a white man's thing? When a black kid tries and educates himself, he is ridiculed by his fellow blacks as being too white and uncle tom.

SAT tests are what you take to prove you are ready for College. Look at the SAT scores of black people. After all that MLK did, these scores are still as low as ever. And what do black people say to excuse this clear fact? The SAT scores are culturally biased. I doubt it, but let's suppose that's true for the English and writing portion of the test. Would you care to tell me how the math portion of the test is culturally biased? How can Math be culturally biased? Why do so many poor Asian and Indian immigrants come to the US and do so well? Because their parents believe strongly in education, and clearly not enough black parents think the same way.

This problem will NEVER be solved until black people take education more seriously and think that education is more than just black history education, and the weaving of false stories of glorification and false excuses.

Sinajuavi

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#158 May 21, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I think that monsters and murderers have a much more accurate meaning.
Not more accurate, just more current. Go back a few centuries and refer to someone as a “rascal” and it would be understood to be just as harsh a criticism as “monster”, etc.

I'm defending Savant's perhaps archaic language because I use it myself. USA English has become severely truncated, largely thanks to the effect of advertising and the media.

A good treatise on this is C.S. Lewis' "The Abolition of Man".

Sinajuavi

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#159 May 21, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Could be, put I was answering the ridiculous claim that drug dealing didn't start in black communities. It most certainly did and the reason is why you are stating. They were poor and they could make great money without any education at all. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
<quoted text>
How to solve it? How about if the majority of black people start taking education sesriously rather than thinking of it as a white man's thing? When a black kid tries and educates himself, he is ridiculed by his fellow blacks as being too white and uncle tom.
SAT tests are what you take to prove you are ready for College. Look at the SAT scores of black people. After all that MLK did, these scores are still as low as ever. And what do black people say to excuse this clear fact? The SAT scores are culturally biased. I doubt it, but let's suppose that's true for the English and writing portion of the test. Would you care to tell me how the math portion of the test is culturally biased? How can Math be culturally biased? Why do so many poor Asian and Indian immigrants come to the US and do so well? Because their parents believe strongly in education, and clearly not enough black parents think the same way.
This problem will NEVER be solved until black people take education more seriously and think that education is more than just black history education, and the weaving of false stories of glorification and false excuses.
You're sounding a bit like Bill Cosby. I do not think your statements are incorrect so much as incomplete.

Blacks didn't start the drug dealing, it was going on among whites and others just as early. And there is a sociocultural context to all of this which you and Cosby ignore.

That is my point. The problem wasn't caused only by the black people involve, and blaming them for it isn't going to solve it. It's bigger than that.

And I can't see how studying black history is a problem. I've studied it, though I'm not black. It's very inspirational really. Look up Denmark Vesey, for example... a very courageous and heroic individual.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#160 May 21, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
Not more accurate, just more current. Go back a few centuries and refer to someone as a “rascal” and it would be understood to be just as harsh a criticism as “monster”, etc.
I'm defending Savant's perhaps archaic language because I use it myself.
Well good luck. See how much good it does you. Hope it lands you a good job, but I sincerely doubt it.

Sinajuavi

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#161 May 21, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
And who was waiting to sell that cocaine on the streets? That started drug dealing in America??? Are you serious? To hear Savant talk, illegal drug dealing started when Richie Cunningham and the Fonz went into black neighborhoods and forced this stuff on them. Come on, be serious. It started in the black community and spread to the white community.
<quoted text>
If they engineered any drug flow, which you haven't proven at all, it would be to who ever was waiting to sell it. Do you think they cared who bought it? And this is assuming that what you say is even true.
<quoted text>
By giving them the means to make money selling drugs?
<quoted text>
Ridiculous!! These people don't need any help from anybody. All they need are ways to make money to keep their organizations going. And where do you think they got their money from?
Cocaine and heroin were widely used by plenty of white people before they were made illegal, and afterward. I cannot accept your consistent blaming of ONLY black people for this.

Research Iran-Contra. It is true. Look even at the marketing of alcohol... malt liquor pushed in the inner city. Liquor stores everywhere, but good luck finding decent groceries. This IS engineered, and that is proven. The ghettos have been engineered for a long time, from real-estate redlining to corporate pushing of violent misogynist rap music. And I could list dozens of other examples.

The BPP was destroyed by FBI agents who often FORCED them to sell drugs. I know this story well and got it right from the horse's mouth, which is to say from one of the original Panthers. Yes, they were destroyed by the govt with assistance from the NOI. And the BPP was doing things which would solve the problems you discuss. Apparently the USA govt doesn't WANT the poor black community to develop... hmmmm... just like their policy toward Africa...

You apparently studied no social science. Humans are not culturally autonomous beings with an infinite array of choices at their disposal. Society channels behavior. Some of us, such as myself, manage to escape our programming, but many do not. It is meaningless to rail at the inner-city black drug dealer while ignoring the social context in which he lives.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#162 May 21, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
You're sounding a bit like Bill Cosby.
Bill Cosby actually cares about his fellow black people while for the most part, they spit at him because he is right. Nobody ever likes to hear the truth, that's why they like guys like Farrakhan much more because he offers them excuses rather than the truth.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not think your statements are incorrect so much as incomplete.
Blacks didn't start the drug dealing, it was going on among whites and others just as early.
It originally started with black jazz musicians way way back when and Mexican immigrants.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
And there is a sociocultural context to all of this which you and Cosby ignore.
Who's ignoring anything? They were poor and uneducated and selling drugs was a great way to make a ton of money. But to deny that this is where and why it started is ridiculous.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
That is my point. The problem wasn't caused only by the black people involve, and blaming them for it isn't going to solve it. It's bigger than that.
Not much bigger. In fact, it started in these communities and spread to white communities when white people saw how much money they were making. And the Mafia saw how much money people were making so they got involved in it in their later years when in their earlier years they were all for extortion and gambling and prostitution, but not drug dealing. They originally had a code against that.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
And I can't see how studying black history is a problem.
It's not going to find you a job unless you are lucky enough to become a College Professor, and there are not tons of jobs for that. Studying black history is not going to do anything to solve the problems of the black community. Becoming Engineers, Accountants, Computer Programmers, Finance people, Bankers, Lawyers will solve the problem. But there are very few black people that are willing to listen to people like Cosby, when he is the guy that actually cares about them, not people like Farrakhan.

Black people always seem to say that they have to "play the game". Well, what do you think that anybody has to do? I used to be all cool and stuff and a renegade when I was in High School, but I had to grow up and play the game. That's life. It's not a black and white thing, it's a GREEN thing. And the worst part is that now you have completely uneducated rappers making all of this money giving black kids the wrong example. How many of them are going to get rich rapping? How many of them are going to be professional athletes?
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#163 May 21, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
Cocaine and heroin were widely used by plenty of white people before they were made illegal, and afterward. I cannot accept your consistent blaming of ONLY black people for this.
Research Iran-Contra.
That's well after cocaine was all over the streets.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
It is true. Look even at the marketing of alcohol... malt liquor pushed in the inner city.
It's not pushed, they like it. I use to work for an Advertising agency and you find out what a target audience wants and you market that to them.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
Liquor stores everywhere, but good luck finding decent groceries.
And why do you think that is? If there is a demand, it will be met. So what does that say about the demands of communities like that where they even try to use food stamps for alcohol?
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
This IS engineered, and that is proven.
Total BULL. You have no idea of how marketing works, I DO.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
The ghettos have been engineered for a long time, from real-estate
White people didn't want to live with black people because they were uneducated and rude, and when the WHITE Government forced white people to accept black people into their neighborhoods, white people fled because the value of their homes were going down. Do you think that white people then snuck back into ghettos to throw trash all over the place and spray paint everything? REALLY? Again, RIDICULOUS!!!
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
redlining to corporate pushing of violent misogynist rap music.
Nobody told black people to make horrible music like this. It all started as a way to stick it to the white man, but when it started to get more popular, it caught the attention of white music executives who are always looking for any way they can to make more money. This isn't rocket science, it's quite simple.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
And I could list dozens of other examples.
The BPP was destroyed by FBI agents who often FORCED them to sell drugs.
Forced them? You're going to have to do a lot to prove that.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
I know this story well and got it right from the horse's mouth,
Or the Horse's a$$?
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
which is to say from one of the original Panthers.
Oh boy, he'll never tell you a self serving story will he.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, they were destroyed by the govt with assistance from the NOI. And the BPP was doing things which would solve the problems you discuss.
Where did the BPP get their money from? The great jobs they had? Think about it.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently the USA govt doesn't WANT the poor black community to develop... hmmmm...
Then they should stop giving those scholarships away to black kids who don't perform as well as white kids. It happens every day. Again, complete and utter nonsense.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
just like their policy toward Africa...
50 Billion in aid that ends up being stolen by corrupt black leaders and one defaulted loan after another that gets forgiven?
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
You apparently studied no social science.
I think you might be talking to yourself.
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
Humans are not culturally autonomous beings with an infinite array of choices at their disposal. Society channels behavior. Some of us, such as myself, manage to escape our programming,
Why did you do it and others do not? Why didn't you just make angry excuses?
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
but many do not. It is meaningless to rail at the inner-city black drug dealer while ignoring the social context in which he lives.
I never denied the context, I denied the lie that it didn't start there. It happened because of poverty.

Sinajuavi

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#164 May 21, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Well good luck. See how much good it does you. Hope it lands you a good job, but I sincerely doubt it.
So I should speak truncated USA pop English with its limited vocabulary, dependent for expressiveness on say,“really really really!!!...” instead of using adjectives, and so on. The average Brit has probably 4x the vocabulary of the average Yank.

Since I teach, knowing all those words does in fact help me. If i were doing customer service for the ignorant Yank public, perhaps not.

Sinajuavi

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#165 May 21, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
That's well after cocaine was all over the streets.
<quoted text>
It's not pushed, they like it. I use to work for an Advertising agency and you find out what a target audience wants and you market that to them.
<quoted text>
And why do you think that is? If there is a demand, it will be met. So what does that say about the demands of communities like that where they even try to use food stamps for alcohol?
<quoted text>
Total BULL. You have no idea of how marketing works, I DO.
<quoted text>
White people didn't want to live with black people because they were uneducated and rude, and when the WHITE Government forced white people to accept black people into their neighborhoods, white people fled because the value of their homes were going down. Do you think that white people then snuck back into ghettos to throw trash all over the place and spray paint everything? REALLY? Again, RIDICULOUS!!!
<quoted text>
Nobody told black people to make horrible music like this. It all started as a way to stick it to the white man, but when it started to get more popular, it caught the attention of white music executives who are always looking for any way they can to make more money. This isn't rocket science, it's quite simple.
<quoted text>
Forced them? You're going to have to do a lot to prove that.
<quoted text>
Or the Horse's a$$?
<quoted text>
Oh boy, he'll never tell you a self serving story will he.
<quoted text>
Where did the BPP get their money from? The great jobs they had? Think about it.
<quoted text>
Then they should stop giving those scholarships away to black kids who don't perform as well as white kids. It happens every day. Again, complete and utter nonsense.
<quoted text>
50 Billion in aid that ends up being stolen by corrupt black leaders and one defaulted loan after another that gets forgiven?
<quoted text>
I think you might be talking to yourself.
<quoted text>
Why did you do it and others do not? Why didn't you just make angry excuses?
<quoted text>
I never denied the context, I denied the lie that it didn't start there. It happened because of poverty.
You're naive about the role of corporations in pushing what THEY want people to buy. It's not all about demand. That is the lie they tell. Are you familiar with the play “USA” by John Dos Passos? That explains this dynamic very well.

Why are people in such desperation that they'd spend their food stamps on alcohol? Again, look for root causes, structural explanations. Blaming a person for their motivations without examining their experiences and options misses the entire point. That is my argument here, rather than addressing every aspect of dysunctional behavior, I say we look at the social structure in which that behavior manifests.

White people fled because, first, they were racist, and secondly because the black population WAS to a large extent poor and dysfunctional, and again, WHY is that? 100 years of Jim Crow have anything to do with it, do you think?

Look at poor white rural areas. Not pretty. And the causes are largely the same as for the black inner city.

Music industry will not play positive hiphop. They encourage the dysfunction, and again, there is a white counterpart. HEAVY METAL!!! Goddam suicide rock, a lot of it. You want to blame blacks for their crap... so whom do you blame for Death metal?

Self-serving? No, the guy whose story I got regarding the Panthers said nothing that didn't fit with all the other pieces of the puzzle. I have multiple sources for that.

Go on Youtube and search for Bobby Seale, then listen to him speak. He is STILL right on politically and there is nothing in his positions which would lead to what happened... and then are you going to claim the BPP are responsible for the NOI members attacking them in the streets? For the Police and govt killing them? Do you know who Fred Hampton was? Check him out.

Sinajuavi

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#166 May 21, 2013
(continued)

20's gangsters selling illegal liquor... that's drug dealing. Have you seen Gangs of New York? This whole gang-drug-crime phenomenon is quite old, and began even before there was much migration of blacks into northern cities from the South. It began among WHITES.

As a teacher, I was frustrated in my efforts by the school system. Many other teachers try to make a difference and they all will tell you the same thing---the admiinstration wouldn't let me function. The system has basic structural problems. The schools fail in the inner city not because of the teachers but because of the system. I had bad-assed dysfunctional ghetto black kids in my classes and I had them doing their homework and giving a damn, but the system did not support me.

Teachers don't have the power to make the necessary changes; they have to come from higher up. And that is true of all of this... structural changes are required which cannot occur without political change. But of course with the populace watching CNN and Fox, they don't even get the information needed to organize in order to cause the necessary change.

This isn't the 60's. This is post-Reagan AmeriKKKa.
bensleys best

Nashua, NH

#167 May 21, 2013
Louie the mouth has been in Chicago for over 50 years babbling his message of hate and what has he accomplished in Chicago?

Nothing, nada, zip, zero, zilch. Just ran his bug mouth but no results.

Chicago is worse off now than it was when Louie started babbling, so all of his fiery speeches amounted to just a lot of hot air.

So based on his track record of failure in Chicago what can Detroit expect?

More failure, more hate filled babbling from a black moron.

No one in Chicago took him seriously and Detroit should not take him seriously.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#168 May 21, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
<quoted text>
So I should speak truncated USA pop English with its limited vocabulary, dependent for expressiveness on say,“really really really!!!...” instead of using adjectives, and so on. The average Brit has probably 4x the vocabulary of the average Yank.
Since I teach, knowing all those words does in fact help me. If i were doing customer service for the ignorant Yank public, perhaps not.
Look, you can use any rarely used words that you would like. I have no idea what good they will do for you or anybody else, but you can speak however you prefer. But don't think that many are going to think you are any more intelligent for doing so. Most would find it odd or unnecessary. If you are a teacher, you should be teaching practical things that will actually help your students. Again, extended vocabulary really means very little. People want results, not rarely used words. Maybe that's why you are teaching rather than doing. But not to knock teaching, it does have a very valuable role and if you enjoy it, then all the more power to you. Frankly, I wouldn't be able to stand teaching the same basic thing year after year.

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