Guest Comment: Southern Arizona border security is unacceptable

[dirtbag1958]

Boot wrote:

Well, it's obvious that you are not open minded enough to accept the fact that you can get much more done with expensive, over-priced labor that doesn't really want to work over under-paid workers who need money and want to work.
Just look around you. People going on strike left and right because 10-15/hr is not good enough.
While you are at it. Throw in healthcare benefits, paid time off, sick leave and whatever else makes you less efficient and effective.
Boot!

I think more of the lazy engineers, foreman's, executives, and CEO'S who are destroying this Nation with their Greed. Yes I admit there are a lot of people that come to work and do nothing, But it is Management who needs to discipline that employee. You buy stock in a company to help them grow and improve your own worth. Not to give out a Bonus just because you did your job. I always thought that if the company makes a profit take 20% of the profit and give everybody should get a equal share and some companies do that.
Mexico got paid for the land and that is history. The United States need legal farm workers NOT illegal immigrants.
When will the madness Stop! We need to Protect these illegal immigrants! SO let make ICE do their JOB and DEPORT all these poor illegal immigrants back to whatever country they came FROM. CONFISCATE ALL their WORLDLY POSSESSIONS and Sale their Possessions at Public Auction and use the Money to Help Deport more of these poor illegal immigrants Back to their Homeland Broke. That way it will discourage their Homeland People not to come to United States without PROPER PAPERS.

[Boot]

So, Dirtbug1958, are you talking from personal experience that engineers, foremen, executives and CEOs are lazy? I've met some pretty hard working engineers. I've met some lazy ones too. I've met some foremen that truly kick butt and others who don't. I've even met some executives who do a great job and others that are so disconnected from what really happens in their companies that it's comical to talk to them.

Of course, I've also met many, many technicians/laborers who are many times more lazy than the engineers, managers, etc. that they are hired to serve. Matter of fact, I've been around a few thousand who went on strike at some point and got nothing, but expected all kinds of money and benefits for doing minimally skilled jobs. You think that $25/hr is enough money for putting components together? Well, apparently, that hasn't been enough out here.

W/all this, these are not the types of jobs that illegals are occupying. The jobs that illegals occupy are much less glamorous. They aren't out putting together components or engineering things or managing. These are truly unwanted jobs. Picking onions, chile, spinach, lettuce, etc., working farms, construction, etc. Not saying that these are not important jobs, they are of importance to us, however, not many people wanting to do them for whatever it is that they pay.

Would you be willing to work a full day for $20-$30 picking onions? You start off at 5 a.m., maybe get done by 6 p.m. in the 105 degree heat? Getting all dirty and dusty? Bending over all day long? Getting your fingers cut by big scissors.

These are the types of jobs that you keep wanting to fight over.

[dirtbag1958]

Well BOT, It is funny Goodyear hired a Mexican Engineer and at least he tried to act like he knew something. and what are you Bot a racist to just think illegal immigrants just pick fruit or vegetables. Engineers need to thank the Maintenance man, Millwright and Electrician that actually make the Engineer idea works. Why do you think you deserve more money than the man that gets Dirty? Sitting behind your desk and kissing your bosses rump? CEO and all white collar people think they deserve Bonus for doing their jobs. Just think California was a state everybody wanted to go to or be like. Now it is self-destructing and the illegal immigrants is part of the cause. Remember the United States need fruit or vegetables pickers, But it use to be Legal immigrants with Green Cards and when it was done most went back home. It has always made me wonder how illegal immigrants who pick onions for $20-30 dollars a day and yet drive a new pick-up truck and have food on the table in the nice house. SO BOT I don't know what kind of engineer you are or where you got a degree (mail-order?), Just so you know my Father in-law is a Electrical engineer, and he always came down and work with us on projects and the upper management always complain about him working with us. But it was great because everybody learned something.

[dirtbag1958]

BOT why defend illegal immigration unless; if not for them you would not have a job?, you need them to do your work? or do you just want to destroy the United States? Finally some people are thinking that illegal immigration is causing the High Unemployment and are trying to do something.House Members Urge President to Enforce Immigration Laws to Lower Unemployment
Monday, November 9, 2009, 11:02 AM EST

Rep. Lamar Smith

House Judiciary Committee Ranking Member Lamar Smith (R-Texas) released a letter that he and 21 other House members sent to President Obama, urging him to increase immigration enforcement efforts to help reduce the 10.2% unemployment rate.

The letter addressed, Pres. Obama's statement on Nov. 2 when he said, "If somebody can show me a strategy that's going to work, then we are happy to consider it," while addressing the unemployment situation.

In the letter, the House Reps wrote:

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) worksite enforcement actions save and create jobs for Americans and legal workers if the illegal immigrant workers are detained and deported. Each time ICE conducts a worksite enforcement action, there is an opportunity to ensure that jobs previously held by illegal immigrants are opened to legal workers.

... according to the most recent estimates from the Pew Hispanic Center, seven million jobs are held by illegal immigrants. Any action your administration takes to prevent illegal immigrants from getting jobs will help ensure that an American has a job. Worksite enforcement actions are the most effective way to do so.

-- Letter to Pres. Obama from House Members

Rep. Smith further added...

Worksite enforcement actions by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) can save and create jobs for citizens and legal workers if illegal immigrant workers are detained and deported. The political appointees throughout the administration must allow ICE’s law enforcement professionals to conduct such actions.

Citizens and legal immigrants should not be forced to compete with illegal immigrants for jobs.”

-- Rep. Lamar Smith

In addition to Ranking Member Smith, the letter was signed by Representatives Steve King, Brian Bilbray, Jack Kingston, Darrell Issa, Bob Goodlatte, Randy Forbes, Jason Chaffetz, Gregg Harper, Howard Coble, John Carter, Ginny Brown-Waite, Rodney Alexander, Doug Lamborn, Michael McCaul, Sue Myrick, Todd Akin, Phil Gingrey, John Fleming, Gary Miller, Elton Gallegly, Peter King.

[Boot]

Dirtbug1958,

I have to agree that in a previous life, I hired a few mexican engineers who didn't know a thing. Of course, I've hired lots of American engineers who don't seem to know anything either. So, the country where engineers come from isn't so important. I personally look for attitude. Kids with winning attitudes tend to do well. Can't say that I ever hired an illegal engineer (these don't tend to come across the border very often - engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc. tend to stay in Mexico - except in your case).

I didn't only mention fruits and vegetables. I'm thinking there was construction, and others. If you want more, circle K, walmart, restaurants, etc.

Engineers who are not smart enough to be nice to their support groups are rarely successful (maintenance man, technicians, etc.). You need to be able to work as a team (no them and us mentality).

I don't think we've ever discussed money, have we? Just to put you at ease, I know machinists and support people who make more money than the engineers do. The only difference is that one person is hourly and one person gets paid a salary (pseudo salary - expected to work at least 40 hrs). W/r to your question. Nope, I'm perfectly fine having people make more money than I do. I make plenty.

I've made it part of my life to never kiss anyone's rump (maybe if she's got a nice rump - hehehe). There's a difference between kissing ass and knowing when to speak.

Truth is that everyone thinks they deserve a bonus for performing work that they are already getting paid for (this is everyone, not only CEOs).

I take it you are not a CEO or a white collared worker. Me neither, I like wearing blue jeans. I do however hold a couple of degrees.

I'd still like to go to California. Pretty place.

I've never wanted to be like California. Too many people, too many cars, too much smog, too much BS.

So, you've clarified. You've said that the illegal issue is part of the problem that is self-destructing California. What other problems are causing the self-destruction? Also, w/r to the illegals. Is the root cause the illegals or is it the fact that we've allowed the illegals to come into the country? Ask yourself why? why? why? why? why?

It's not always been legal immigrants picking fruits and veggies. There's always been a mix. And no, they never had Green Cards (a green card is a permanent resident alien card, not to be confused with a temporary worker Visa). There were also years when we allowed BRASEROS to come and support agricultural work. These were workers with temporary permits for working in the USA. Usually done during wars, etc. W/r to simply getting Green Cards, that is much more difficult and involved (10-20 yrs on average is the amount of time to possibly qualify for one). No, I'm not an INS person.

I've met very few onion pickers who have a nice truck and a nice home, much less enough to eat. Don't fool yourself.

Yep, I got my degree from the DirtBug1958 College of Engineering. How'd you know? I'm overwhelmed by your ability to give compliments, especially on my mail-ordered degrees.

Your FIL sounds like a wise engineer. Anyone not willing to work with their support staff is insane. Sounds to me like you had the wrong management.

You bet, engineers working with people is a win-win.

It's kinda funny. I did some work with Goodyear a few years ago.

Hang in there Dirtbug. We don't always agree, but just think. If we always agreed, this would be a very boring blog.

Keep disagreeing.

[dirtbag1958]

You are right on some things and we will disagree and surprising we agree on some things too. Most of my Family is in Maintenance, from plumbing to Harley Davidson mechanic, to HVAC, to Electrical. Goodyear sold our Plant to Morry Taylor the proud American (Titan Tires), shocking enough he buys Ukraine Presses to cook Tires. and on the Onion picker the one driving the new pick-up was the man that told the rest what do, a foreman or ramrod. But an illegal immigrant.

[Boot]

Well Bug,

I think it's refreshing to disagree with someone who is open minded enough to expand on his/her views.

W/r to the onion picker, you are hardly referring to an onion picker. You are referring to a boss, which typically is a person in charge of lots of people who work in the fields. These guys tend to make a good chunk of money. Most of these came from Texas and are legitimate Texas business men/women. They do however, really work people near death for very low pay.

Good conversation. Hang in there.

[dirtbag1958]

BOT
It was a old mexican and he control the pickers, and I should say there was a young boy who translated english to him.

[Boot]

Bug,

Still the money maker and the boss. There's a huge difference between a person who picks onions and the foreman/supervisor who has the contract. The picker gets paid about 20-30 per day if he/she is lucky. The pay is $0.50 per 12 gallons of onions. So, you are looking at about 60 12 gallon burlap sacks per day per person. A guy who has 200 people working for them will report 12,000 sacs in a day. The boss charges $0.65 per sack. So, the guy is making $0.15 * 12,000 =$1,800 per day.$1,800 * 7 =$12,600 per week = 665K per year (never make this much as the work is seasonal, but a couple hundred thousand is not out of the question).

So, you can see where the bossman can drive a fancy truck and have a very nice house.

So, how's it feel to see that people less qualified than you are making much more money than you? Is the man who can't speak english really less talented than you or I? Is he more talented than you or I?

Depends how you measure success.

[Lionel B]

GLH
Anonymous Proxy:

You're so right.
Here, in Britain, we are invaded by illegals from across the English Channel. They come from not only France, but travel from Africa and beyond, through Europe to come to our island.

At the same time, as you know, we have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, when they should be here protecting our own borders ---- with, as you say, loaded weapons.

Rogerg-“Pick fruit? jajaja!”
I don't 'hate' these invaders, I just do not want them in my country.

[dirtbag1958]

Bot; probably got a car dealership to finance it.. That is also why we need to bail out the financial institutions.

[Tom]

Thosteenez wrote:

Since 1961, my business has depended on Mexican labor: cheap & willing. Also, this land orginally belonged to them

Your business has depended on cheap labor, so you could undercut the competition, and line your pockets, Its not that Americans dont want to do the work, you dont want to pay them to do the work, you would rather do it illegally, saving a few bucks per hour on labor is so shortsided and selfish, then you leave the taxpayers to pay for there kids education, and medical bills, and increasing crime rates, now whats the real cost per hour. I would like to cross the border, and lets see what help they give the 45 million americans without health insurance or the one in six that are hungry in this country lets all head for Mexico its all free there haha

And about it being their land to begin with, we payed for it fair and square, now why dont you go back to the house you sold 10 or 20 years ago and ask for it back, see how far that gets you.

[Rico from East Los]

Thosteenez wrote:

Oh, I so agree I was unclear. But I have a reason: I am very emotional about the fact that these hard-working Mexicans who will work at jobs Whites won't do, originally owned a great deal of the southwest including a huge part of California. They're getting the last laugh though, as they are coming across in droves, taking advantage of our system, birthing new ones, & even winning the lottery... ha ha. P.S. I still insist they are the hardest workers, even with less pay.

You have that right.

The Californios were Mexican and Spanish Rancheros who fought bravely when American forces invaded Alta California.

I have never seen an American sell oranges at freeway off-ramps, sell ice creams from a shopping cart or frame a house for $5 bucks an hour.

America reaps what it sows.

LOL

[Slocatch]

Thosteenez wrote:

Since 1961, my business has depended on Mexican labor: cheap & willing. Also, this land orginally belonged to them

I'm an Averican Vet., just wanted to tellk you thanks for selling me out. As a business owner, one of your Civic Duties is to not do that.

[Slocatch]

Rico from East Los wrote:

<quoted text>
You have that right.
The Californios were Mexican and Spanish Rancheros who fought bravely when American forces invaded Alta California.
I have never seen an American sell oranges at freeway off-ramps, sell ice creams from a shopping cart or frame a house for $5 bucks an hour.
America reaps what it sows.
LOL

We don't steal carts

[Slocatch]

I takes 9 years of absolute neglect to take a lush green lawn to brown dirt. Something to be really proud of, and at the same time claim to be hard working. When in Denver, use the (311) ANONYMOUS phone number to report any CODE VIOLATION you might see. ie.. Too many people/cars per house, parking on lawn area, trash/dirt on sidewalks, trash in yard, fence in disrepair, cloths on fence, illegal business, weeds/unattended vegatation, ODOR. This is a Gov. program that gets things done.

[Slocatch]

Can sure tell where they have been.

[thosteenez]

OMG you did not pay for the land "fair and square" ... you took it by force in a war (have you not read your history?)... maybe u r referring to the Gadsden Purchase which came waaayyyy later! But then, you white folks are good at taking land from others; but it is biting you in the butt as those damn mexicans are crossing the border in droves, winning the lottery, and over-taking everything that belonged to them originally. ha ha

[thosteenez]

someone mentioned "civic duty" ... GIVE ME A BREAK! Even the politions don't care about that! They're all crooks. But as a vet, I compell you to come to my office: U WILL HAVE A JOB FOR SURE.

[Slocatch]

I'm pretty sure we bought it.